[AirbusCapt]

Originally Posted by Steeroid

Which part of the Harrier is ‘shoddy’?

Reading GTO's mini review, the loud boomy engine, lack of sound insulation, the speedo needle parking itself at 5/10 kmph at rest, cheap plastics in the lower half, the vibes at stop and start.. quite not so sharp in a 20 lac car especially when you didn't have any of these issues in your earlier launches.

[FrodoOfTheShire]

Originally Posted by FrodoOfTheShire

IMO, apart from a slight overlap in prices, both these cars are very different from each other in terms of design, fit & finish, dimensions and engines. I am very curious to know the thought process of someone who's shortlisted both these cars!

Originally Posted by aniyo

We did and ended up buying the Nexon

5. This costs about 17L on road Bengaluru
6. XM and XT are in striking distance at 17.5 and 18.5 resp.
7. In terms of EMI difference is hardly 4K. We get a bigger car and engine.

Kind of what I was hinting about. Since there is slight price overlap and you could stretch your budget, you considered the Harrier. But for majority buyers, the Hyundai brand image, Creta's brand image and it being an established product and right size for the city and power for the highways would make them go for the Creta. Not everyone would care for a bigger car with bigger engine even if available at a similar price point. Congratulations on the Nexon btw!



Saw this comparison on Cardekho. The public comments below the article are really hilarious and shows how pointless such comparisons are!

https://www.cardekho.com/india-car-n...ison-23425.htm

[soji]

I find the camera to be allright in my car. Would it be possible that the lens isn't clean on that vehicle ? I found the camera to be pretty good even in low lighting conditions.

[Rahul Rao]

Originally Posted by digitalnirvana

As far as I recall, the Nexon is from the Ranjangaon plant shared with FCA for the compass. Even the Nexon had a few minor QA issues when launched. The Tiago and the Hexa arguably had the most attention to detail and right-first-time implementation for the initial batches. So much so that people could actually buy with confidence without waiting for the "v2".

Hexa is a V2 Version of the Aria. Initial Aria did have issues, but most issue solved vehicles did more than 5 lakh km per vehicle with untouched power train and other essentials in the Taxi market. Solving these issues with the demanding Taxi operators developed a trouble free Hexa.

Originally Posted by venkyhere

why are the low beams lamps the inner ones within the dual barrel setup ? shouldn't it be the other way around ? usually low beams are the outer barrel lamps, so that the vehicle width is adequately informed to the oncoming traffic.

I don't think there is any such rule, even the previous generation Fortuner had the low beams on the inside, and high on the outside.



Rahul

[JoshMachine]

Originally Posted by GTO

Disclaimer = My quick + short review below. Full details will follow in our Official Review (as always).

You are being very humble, GTO
This short review of yours is worth more than a full-blown "industry report" by other so-called market pundits!
Very eager to read the official report, now (as always).

In a nutshell, the Harrier is a “good” SUV, not “great”.

This observation kind of, sums up the entire conundrum for the Harrier since the day of the launch.

Really, it is kind of a mixed bag proposition. While on one hand, you see great attention to detail in things like the car silhouette reflecting in the puddle lamp (one of may favs), while on the other hand, the same attention to detail seems to be grossly missing in the hydraulic steering calibration!

To me, the design element of the Harrier is the biggest differentiator as compared to competition. There could have been more additions to this, had the Harrier come with AT or the AWD combo right from day 1.

Guess, Tata, with its increasing emphasis on turnaround of its passenger car segment strategy, with more focus on shifting the culture within, more importance to changing the customer perception - is perhaps trying wee bit hard to do it - all of it together and rather hastily.

Hope they don't let it slip through the cracks, what matters most though at the end of the day - rolling out a great product!

[rovingeye]

Originally Posted by GTO

Disclaimer = My quick + short review below. Full details will follow in our Official Review (as always).

In a nutshell, the Harrier is a “good” SUV, not “great”. It certainly didn’t impress me as much as say, the Hexa did at the time of its launch, or the Nexon.

Most of us suspected this all along. But, absent your proverbial "stamp", there was a lot of confusion flying around (fortunately or unfortunately, for a lot of us, your word is absolute as far as reviews go). I think your first hand review settles all debates for the time being.

Thanks GTO.

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by AirbusCapt

Reading GTO's mini review, the loud boomy engine, lack of sound insulation, the speedo needle parking itself at 5/10 kmph at rest, cheap plastics in the lower half, the vibes at stop and start.. quite not so sharp in a 20 lac car especially when you didn't have any of these issues in your earlier launches.

So you haven’t driven the vehicle?

Your post seemed to indicate first hand experience, hence my query.

IMHO the coarse-ish noise is present (something I have pointed out as well), mostly if you push the engine hard - which is pointless as most of its meat is well below coarse noise levels. Other than that, it would be wrong to call it ‘shoddy’ because the vehicle is well built, spacious and its interior is elegant in an understated manner.

Its a good vehicle. Does it tick all boxes? No - but neither does competition, and if you consider Tata’s pricing they aren’t asking for that sort of ‘ticks-all-boxes’ $, either. The Creta for similar money or the Compass for nearly 20% more feel decidedly smaller - one whole size if not more. Neither has the presence that this vehicle has, and neither of them feel as comfortable inside IMHO.

Every vehicle has its +s and -s. You make your purchase decision based on whether it’s a net + or not. To call it shoddy by looking at minuses in isolation is not being objective - that is my point.

The Harrier offers, IMHO, presence, space, excellent drive ability, comfort, great interiors and excellent value for the amount of money they are asking. Could it be better - sure, but probably at a higher price.

[aniyo]

Originally Posted by FrodoOfTheShire

Kind of what I was hinting about. Since there is slight price overlap and you could stretch your budget, you considered the Harrier. But for majority buyers, the Hyundai brand image, Creta's brand image and it being an established product and right size for the city and power for the highways would make them go for the Creta. Not everyone would care for a bigger car with bigger engine even if available at a similar price point. Congratulations on the Nexon btw!

Thanks for the wishes.
Most people will not even consider Tata that too at 18-20L price range. Creta is a good product and market is paying up for it. I do not agree to the price so I did not buy.

Whoever goes to Tata showroom will look at Harrier and after seeing the prices they will eventually compare +/- 2L that's how people budget.

I don't agree that many people have a body style in mind when starting for a car. They have a price range and slowly narrow down to the car of choice.

Even on this forum people have started with Jeep or Tuscon and ended up buying the Octavia.
So comparisons within the price range will happen, Creta with Verna, Creta with Harrier, Harrier with Jeep and Hexa, Harrier with Ocatavia etc.

[NTO]

Thank you GTO for the short yet precise tale of the things with the Harrier.

Originally Posted by GTO

(if you are considering buying one, I recommend waiting for the 2020 Harrier with all its rough edges ironed out)

Tata will also iron out a lot of features whether or not they sort the rough edges as you have mentioned.

[digitalnirvana]

Originally Posted by Rahul Rao

Hexa is a V2 Version of the Aria. Initial Aria did have issues, but most issue solved vehicles did more than 5 lakh km per vehicle with untouched power train and other essentials in the Taxi market. Solving these issues with the demanding Taxi operators developed a trouble free Hexa.

Rahul

The Aria v1 (pre 2013) had too many horror stories resulting from poor QC so it's probably not fair to say that the Hexa was well sorted just because it was an evolution of the Aria.

I'd say Tata started fixing things from around 2013-2014 itself in terms of quality, with the push on quality adherence and stringent standards for suppliers being imposed under the Late Karl Slym. The Zest, Bolt (and the Aria refresh itself) are all significantly better built that their predecessors, and the trend of improvement continued with Hexa and the Tiago/Tigor/Nexon.

My post was more about the fact that the Harrier is a great leap for Tata from an engineering perspective, and with the shortest time-to-market of any of their products till date. I was not trying to detract from its qualities as a product, sorry if it came across that way.

The Harrier is their biggest monocoque, on a brand new (and complex) modular platform, and being rolled out off a brand new line with an unprecedented level of automation. They are probably already at 80%+ perfection in the Harrier v1 and I have no doubt that iteratively they will reach a higher level of quality once the assembly is fine tuned.

Right now, it's a very good product in its own right and people sitting on the fence will need to decide whether it fits their needs or not. It already has an emotional appeal due to the excellent design, and a more fine tuned Harrier would probably have been a "must have" and more successful right off the starting line

[JoshMachine]

A current report by Overdrive also is pegging the Compass ahead of the Creta and the Harrier (citing Harrier lacking some crucial features and has still some room for improvement), followed by the XUV.

link

[AirbusCapt]

Originally Posted by Steeroid

So you haven’t driven the vehicle?

Your post seemed to indicate first hand experience, hence my query.

IMHO the coarse-ish noise is present (something I have pointed out as well), mostly if you push the engine hard - which is pointless as most of its meat is well below coarse noise levels. Other than that, it would be wrong to call it ‘shoddy’ because the vehicle is well built, spacious and its interior is elegant in an understated manner.

Its a good vehicle. Does it tick all boxes? No - but neither does competition, and if you consider Tata’s pricing they aren’t asking for that sort of ‘ticks-all-boxes’ $, either. The Creta for similar money or the Compass for nearly 20% more feel decidedly smaller - one whole size if not more. Neither has the presence that this vehicle has, and neither of them feel as comfortable inside IMHO.

Every vehicle has its +s and -s. You make your purchase decision based on whether it’s a net + or not. To call it shoddy by looking at minuses in isolation is not being objective - that is my point.

The Harrier offers, IMHO, presence, space, excellent drive ability, comfort, great interiors and excellent value for the amount of money they are asking. Could it be better - sure, but probably at a higher price.

A teambhp review is quite close to what I observe during a test drive. So I would take GTO's review seriously. If Tata aim to call Harrier a premium vehicle, small touches especially in fit and finish, nvh , drivability matter. Both Creta and Compass do feel premium enough for their ask.

I am not in the market for a 5 seater "SUV" now, if I were, the Compass with the sunroof would make a strong case.

I have not taken a test drive, yes but have sat inside the car, closely observed the fit and finish and also heard the engine both inside and out, my views closely match what's stated above.

[civic-sense]

Originally Posted by Steeroid

So you haven’t driven the vehicle?

Your post seemed to indicate first hand experience, hence my query.

IMHO the coarse-ish noise is present (something I have pointed out as well), mostly if you push the engine hard - which is pointless as most of its meat is well below coarse noise levels. Other than that, it would be wrong to call it ‘shoddy’ because the vehicle is well built, spacious and its interior is elegant in an understated manner.

Its a good vehicle. Does it tick all boxes? No - but neither does competition, and if you consider Tata’s pricing they aren’t asking for that sort of ‘ticks-all-boxes’ $, either. The Creta for similar money or the Compass for nearly 20% more feel decidedly smaller - one whole size if not more. Neither has the presence that this vehicle has, and neither of them feel as comfortable inside IMHO.

Every vehicle has its +s and -s. You make your purchase decision based on whether it’s a net + or not. To call it shoddy by looking at minuses in isolation is not being objective - that is my point.

The Harrier offers, IMHO, presence, space, excellent drive ability, comfort, great interiors and excellent value for the amount of money they are asking. Could it be better - sure, but probably at a higher price.

After reading GTO's review I was hoping that all speculations would be laid to rest. At least for some time. But alas!

I think no words were minced when he said: it is a good SUV, not a great one. They still had work to do, which they didn't, in the rush to get it to the market. There will be a V2, and I hope when that comes I will be in the market too.

Till then it is a half baked product. Tata has a history of launching products that were mediocre which improved considerably through iterations. The Indica and Aria are examples.

But, I do agree that for the price they are asking for it is a good proposition. If you are not keen on how it drives, how it rides or the amount of noise the engine makes, all those ergonomic mistakes or the fit and finish etc, you could simply buy a entry variant and park it in front of your house just to make your neighbour envious. Such a beautiful looking car it is.

[prakash_ajp]

Originally Posted by civic-sense

After reading GTO's review I was hoping that all speculations would be laid to rest. At least for some time. But alas!

I think no words were minced when he said: it is a good SUV, not a great one. They still had work to do, which they didn't, in the rush to get it to the market. There will be a V2, and I hope when that comes I will be in the market too.

The way I see it, you have much higher standards than GTO!

What is "good" for GTO is half-baked for you. Clearly, not everyone sets the same bar. That's the trouble with words and standards, right? We can read the way we want and perceive the way we like.

For me, and I suppose for many here, a good vehicle in the eyes of GTO is good enough. Mere mortals and not so rich who can't afford let's say a Kodiaq (let alone an LR), will gladly take GTO's "good" and live with it. If only great vehicles can sell, then well, we won't be seeing so many cars on our roads.

Also there's this gamble associated with every early adoption. I am sure you know that very well having bought the Compass, despite Fiat's (admittedly perceived) pathetic service experience. And before you jump on this let me say this: I know because I owned a Fiat.

[civic-sense]

Originally Posted by prakash_ajp

The way I see it, you have much higher standards than GTO!

What is "good" for GTO is half-baked for you.

If "half-baked" is the remark that got you worked up, would you accept "three-quarter-baked" as an acceptable compromise? Or say 90% baked? It is clear that Tata had work to do, and I am willing to concede on the percentage. So how much is it?

For me, and I suppose for many here, a good vehicle in the eyes of GTO is good enough. Mere mortals and not so rich who can't afford let's say a Kodiaq (let alone an LR), will gladly take GTO's "good" and live with it. If only great vehicles can sell, then well, we won't be seeing so many cars on our roads.

See, my opinion would/should not prevent you from buying the Harrier. So if you can live with it, please buy it. Does not change my opinion that it is a half-baked car. Or should I ask for a vote before I voice an opinion?