[AlphaKilo]

Originally Posted by mayanksabharwal

Tata Harrier bookings open as per a report from rushlane

Has anyone else booked the Harrier?

https://www.rushlane.com/tata-harrie...-12281728.html

Still a BSIV and not a BSVI. Why? I thought they would have already made BSVI compatible engines into Harrier. Not a good move imho.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by AlphaKilo

Still a BSIV and not a BSVI. Why? I thought they would have already made BSVI compatible engines into Harrier. Not a good move imho.

BSVI will carry a heavy premium!

The smart move is to introduce it along with your rivals, when there is an industry-wide hike in prices! Using a BSVI power-train at launch would mean the Harrier (which is already expected to carry a premium price tag) simply being priced itself out of most customers wish list.

What creates an immediate sales impact would be an attractive introductory price. Tata would then normalise (i.e. raise) prices in a year or so once it reaches the targeted sales, and use the new emission norms as a convenient excuse for a hefty price hike.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

SUV craze crowd

One thing to watch out for - Indian's clearly prefer more boxier profiles for their SUVs - Brezza, Creta, Compass etc, whereas Harrier looks more rounded and sophisticated. Like the elder sibling of Nexon.

Love the design, but I have my doubts on mass market acceptability of it.

Originally Posted by shortbread

The smart move is to introduce it along with your rivals, when there is an industry-wide hike in prices! Using a BSVI power-train at launch would mean the Harrier (which is already expected to carry a premium price tag) simply being priced itself out of most customers wish list.

What creates an immediate sales impact would be an attractive introductory price.

Absolutely. Remember how long the confusion prevailed after the unladen -> Laden GC conversion.

Similarly people would just starting calling it overpriced without checking BSIV or VI. Good move to just follow the regulations along with other major players.

[AdityaDeane]

Originally Posted by shortbread

BSVI will carry a heavy premium!

The smart move is to introduce it along with your rivals, when there is an industry-wide hike in prices! Using a BSVI power-train at launch would mean the Harrier (which is already expected to carry a premium price tag) simply being priced itself out of most customers wish list.

What creates an immediate sales impact would be an attractive introductory price. Tata would then normalise (i.e. raise) prices in a year or so once it reaches the targeted sales, and use the new emission norms as a convenient excuse for a hefty price hike.

Even though you have a valid point, but do remember that Harrier's competition will also become pricier by about a Lakh when BS6 norms kick in. So, it will be right where it will be in the segment where it is launched. All Diesel engines will need a hefty price bump to become BS6 compliant, and whether the Harrier is launched in Creta or Compass category, they also will move up when they upgrade to BS6, so no one will feel like only Tata Motors has increased the prices exorbitantly, because it's contemporaries will become dearer too around that time.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Similarly people would just starting calling it overpriced without checking BSIV or VI. Good move to just follow the regulations along with other major players.

Exactly! While many bhp'ians would like to get their hands on a BSVI Harrier well before the regulations kick in, the remaining 99.99% of the mango man-woman population will prioritise an attractive price tag over the BS norms without doubt. A BS4 car cheaper by 1.5 lacs will outsell a BS6 car in India any day.

I can understand an enthusiast's wish-list, a radical appealing design, state of the art power-train, best in class safety features, connectivity, premium sound system plus throw in BSVI! All this at what price exactly, north of 22-24 lacs?!

Here's what analysts think on BS6:

With BS VI norms, the pollutant limits will become more stringent. BS VI-compliant diesel vehicles will have to reduce nitrogen oxide (NOx) emission by 68 per cent and particulate matter emission by five times compared to the current BS IV standards. Moreover, emission-reduction technologies required for controlling emission to this level is expensive.

This will lead to a disproportionate difference in the cost of diesel and petrol cars. The cost addition, says Ghosh, will depend on the engine size – a diesel car with an engine size of 1.5 litre could become costlier by ₹50,000 to ₹60,000.

“This would result in a 50 per cent increase in the price differential between small diesel and petrol cars. For larger diesel vehicles, the price addition could be ₹1.25 lakh for a 2-liter diesel engine and about ₹1.5 lakh or more for larger ones,” says Suraj Ghosh, Principal Analyst, SouthAsia Powertrain Forecasts, IHS Markit Automotive.

https://www.thehindubusinessline.com...cle9962588.ece

A Jan'19 launch means the competitors will have 10-12 months to under cut the Harrier's pricing before launching their own BSVI versions. That time frame is good enough to dampen sales and perhaps categorise the product as a 'flop'!

Going through this thread for Tata Motors would be a scary proposition, the expectations are bordering on the nigh impossible especially at the prices speculated by many. The car is an industry game changer no doubt but the expectations are perhaps way-way beyond what most volume sellers in India currently provide. A global player like Suzuki does not have a cutting edge product like this in their entire international portfolio, even beyond a 20 lac price bracket.

The Harrier can perhaps wear any major auto manufacturers badge, it looks that promising. But I have a feeling the increasing expectations can perhaps kill this product, despite the fact that there is no other maker with a comparative car in the Indian market currently.

It's a very fickle market especially for a player like Tata.

[discoverwild]

Originally Posted by mayanksabharwal

Tata Harrier bookings open as per a report from rushlane

Has anyone else booked the Harrier?

https://www.rushlane.com/tata-harrie...-12281728.html

Tata has instructed the dealer to refund the payment and has asked customers to wait for official announcements.

We have learnt of this incident. The dealer was compelled to take the booking due to the customer insisting on the same, to be among the first owners of the Tata Harrier. We will publicise widely when we officially open bookings for the Harrier.

Source

[Guna]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

One thing to watch out for - Indian's clearly prefer more boxier profiles for their SUVs - Brezza, Creta, Compass etc, whereas Harrier looks more rounded and sophisticated. Like the elder sibling of Nexon.

I am sure you meant 'younger sibling like Nexon'. Nexon doing around 5000 units is not bad. If they had designed the rear end a more 'acceptable' way, it would have easily managed many more.

[arunshaunik]

When is the 7 seater expected on the Harrier platform of Tata Motors?

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by arunshaunik

When is the 7 seater expected on the Harrier platform of Tata Motors?

Should be around 2020 or at least 2019 Q3 (Diwali) since the testing is yet to commemce (as per the people in know how).

[GrammarNazi]

Originally Posted by shortbread

BSVI will carry a heavy premium!...

But that also means that the cars sold upto 2020 wouldn't be allowed to re-register within metro cities during resale. Resultantly, it's only for those customers who are willing to keep the car for minimum 6-8 years. Selling earlier would not only be harder but it'd also not fetch respectable resale. Abit uncool for a company having a legacy of poor resale value.

This can be partly tackled by Tata providing a super long warranty as standard to build confidence in the longevity of product and perception of the brand. Let's see.

[nainan]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Should be around 2020 or at least 2019 Q3 (Diwali) since the testing is yet to commemce (as per the people in know how).

But wasnt the Ladakh testing done with 2 different sized SUVs as reported earlier on this thread. Also in some of the mules there is a subtle difference in height, a slightly broader rear and a wider roof profile. I noticed this when i was trying to nake a 3d model of the 7 seater. It sure seems to be a looker, curvy but a big muscular SUV all the same like a better designed XUV with elements of the Harrier look, shades of the Nexon and also some Hyundaiish inspiration. Besides even Mahindra seems to be indicating that the 7 seater market is where the money is. So it makes more sense to launch the 7 seater

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by nainan

...Besides even Mahindra seems to be indicating that the 7 seater market is where the money is. So it makes more sense to launch the 7 seater

Probably, they want to test the water with the 5 seater and judge the premium they can command based on the success of the Harrier - wise decision if it's so. Plus, the 5 seater will have more volumes as well. TATA with all the bad reputation, is better with a bottom-to-top approach on products and premium pricing. Am sure, they are happy how the Tiago & Tigor are received and then the Nexon too - everything has been bringing enough numbers and the reputation on quality is on the rise.

[nainan]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Probably, they want to test the water with the 5 seater and judge the premium they can command based on the success of the Harrier - wise decision if it's so. Plus, the 5 seater will have more volumes as well. TATA with all the bad reputation, is better with a bottom-to-top approach on products and premium pricing. Am sure, they are happy how the Tiago & Tigor are received and then the Nexon too - everything has been bringing enough numbers and the reputation on quality is on the rise.

That is precisely the confusion. The premium 5 seater is the worst selling segment in India if you look at Compass and Tuscon sales(2500 a month combined) not worth any serious effort. The volumes are all in Creta territory(10000+ a month).

The VFM 7 seater on the other hand like the Innova, XUV also does 10000 per month. While the premium 7 seater is also in the 2500 range.

Hence Mahindra is enhancing their offering in the C2-D1 segment with 7 seaters which makes sense. Hence it makes all the more sense to go for a Creta rival with the 5 seater however this is a territory even Mahindra has found hard to crack among dozens of other manufcturers with a variety of products. Also this space overlaps with hot selling sedans which means more competition.

It makes even more sense to position the 7 seater against the XUV before the next set of VFM 7 seaters are launched and capture maximum market share, rebuild the Tata brand in core SUV space. It helps that the IA is also switching to the Storme in numbers enhancing their 7 seat credentials for serious off roading.

This is where they lost the plot by lugging the Safari on till the inspirational vehicle of yesteryear started being perceived as too dated.

A good strategy should be to cover the market from VFM 5 seater to VFM 7 seater. They have a bigger portfolio of engines(localised Ingeniums) and full size SUV platforms from Land Rover which can be leveraged to build full size or more premium SUVs once they have volumes and traction. Very few brands in India have launched as premium and succeeded on day 1. It has to be built over time and gradually like Hyundai and Toyota did, Mahindra is doing and Tata should aim for.

[motorworks]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Probably, they want to test the water with the 5 seater and judge the premium they can command based on the success of the Harrier - wise decision if it's so. Plus, the 5 seater will have more volumes as well. TATA with all the bad reputation, is better with a bottom-to-top approach on products and premium pricing. Am sure, they are happy how the Tiago & Tigor are received and then the Nexon too - everything has been bringing enough numbers and the reputation on quality is on the rise.

I think Tata is not going to test the waters with a 5 seater and then launch a 7 seater, product lines do not get made up over 12 months. If they plan to launch the 7 seater in 2020 then they must be already in the final stages of development. Probably they would launch the Harrier first, look at stable sales, iron out any initial gremlins, and then launch the 7 seater anyway.

Originally Posted by nainan

That is precisely the confusion. The premium 5 seater is the worst selling segment in India if you look at Compass and Tuscon sales(2500 a month combined) not worth any serious effort. The volumes are all in Creta territory(10000+ a month).

A good strategy should be to cover the market from VFM 5 seater to VFM 7 seater. They have a bigger portfolio of engines(localised Ingeniums) and full size SUV platforms from Land Rover which can be leveraged to build full size or more premium SUVs once they have volumes and traction. Very few brands in India have launched as premium and succeeded on day 1. It has to be built over time and gradually like Hyundai and Toyota did, Mahindra is doing and Tata should aim for.

Why think that Tata would not know what we know? Are the sales numbers not out there for everyone to see? And Tata has got its recent products bang on in terms of pricing, whether its the Tiago, Nexon and even the Hexa. So I do not think Tata is going to go overboard with their pricing.
Also, the market is evolving every year. The volumes you see in Creta and XUV500 were not there 5 years ago. Not that I suggest Tata price the Harrier higher up, but the market does evolve. The Creta top end costs somewhere around 16-17 Lakhs, and that is not cheap at all. Same applies to a top end City, ranging around 15L. So prices and market has moved up. My opinion is that Tata can very well price the Harrier between say 13-18 Lakhs on road and easily see decent numbers. Below 13 L they have the nexon. And when the 7 seater does come
In, it should start where the Harrier ends or even a slight overlap in prices, like say 17–23 Lakhs and that would be very good.

Just for a reference, a bare bones Compass costs 20L and the mid variants are around 23-25L. And the Tucson starts there. And all the big guys like T-fort and Endy are all 35L plus. So the market has moved up and why should Tata underprice themselves, if they have a good product on hand. Sure, they are supposed to be a VFM brand, but they do not have to give the market a shocker price! The product is good, so get the price right and wait to see the market reaction.

[prakash_ajp]

Originally Posted by nainan

That is precisely the confusion. The premium 5 seater is the worst selling segment in India if you look at Compass and Tuscon sales(2500 a month combined) not worth any serious effort.

Compass is doing well over thousand a month (used to do over 2000), and Tuscon just over a hundred. So, it's not correct to put them together just for the sake of it.



Besides, "building gradually" doesn't appear to be helping Hyundai, does it?