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Old 1st November 2018, 14:19   #1276
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re: Tata H5X Concept @ Auto Expo 2018. Named Tata Harrier! EDIT: Launched @ Rs. 12.69 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by prakash_ajp View Post
For the moment, they have to be content selling their cars to (mostly) people who are licking their lips in anticipation of value for money prices (read rock bottom prices ) and heavy discounts.
This is not true any more. In my office I see as many Nexons as I see Ecosports. Most of them would have bought the Nexon for it's virtue, not because they could not afford Ecosport or a Brezza. Of course they can't afford to over price the Harrier like Fortuner or Innova but they can price it 'right' and still see good volumes. Leaked price of 16-21 lakhs seem to be bang on for this truly global car (with 3 design studios working on it and with it's LR underpinnings).
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Old 1st November 2018, 16:15   #1277
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re: Tata H5X Concept @ Auto Expo 2018. Named Tata Harrier! EDIT: Launched @ Rs. 12.69 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guna View Post
Leaked price of 16-21 lakhs seem to be bang on for this truly global car (with 3 design studios working on it and with it's LR underpinnings).
That the pricing is definitely not working is obvious from the fact that Tata has not revealed the number of bookings they have got and the rather hastily timed first Harrier off the production line reveal which happened in a rather quiet manner.

Given that Hyundai are planning to go for a 7 seater Tucson next time round and looking at a Creta 7 seater the concept of a premium 5 seater is only represented by the Compass which too if we look at the sales trend does not seem to have a future. In such an environment it would be advisable for Tata to look at starting their ex-showroom price in the 10-12 lakh bracket and limit the year one model to a 15-16 lakh ex show room top-end. This will give them mass market volumes and a perception of a value for money SUV.

I think Tata should have a top end with a sun roof instead of a 4 wheel drive for launch as that is what most customers prefer.

If they cannot manage to launch the AT in this price they should do the Hyundai trick of letting it settle for a few months and the launch the AT. The 4 wheel drive in my opinion should be an optional in all trims to cater to the enthusiast and help project a more palatable pricing. This also will help in avoiding situations like the very capable Hexa automatic top end having no 4x4 option. Any other developed goodies that they cannot manage in the above pricing can be put as an option pack like Hyundai does.

In model year 2 & 3 many of these optionals based on feedback can be brought in as a new top variant with a more premium price.

This might be a better strategy than the current one where to match the market price they launch a car with all goodies and bells and whistles and then remove feature by feature to keep the same price for each variant.

And to all enthusiasts out there I understand that some of us wish to have it all in one grand top end variant at a premium price but then it translates to lesser numbers and a frustrating ownership experience as supply chains will not be optimized as they could be on the economies of scale.

Last edited by nainan : 1st November 2018 at 16:16.
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Old 1st November 2018, 16:25   #1278
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re: Tata H5X Concept @ Auto Expo 2018. Named Tata Harrier! EDIT: Launched @ Rs. 12.69 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guna View Post
This is not true any more. In my office I see as many Nexons as I see Ecosports. Most of them would have bought the Nexon for it's virtue, not because they could not afford Ecosport or a Brezza. Of course they can't afford to over price the Harrier like Fortuner or Innova but they can price it 'right' and still see good volumes. Leaked price of 16-21 lakhs seem to be bang on for this truly global car (with 3 design studios working on it and with it's LR underpinnings).
Sure, that's why I mentioned "mostly" and I am one of those who don't belong in that most. I recently bought the Nexon for what it offers.

Tata must be hoping that this percentage increases with their every new release and Harrier certainly takes their image a couple of notches up. Having said that, I feel, the leaked price is about a lakh or two more, at least to begin with. I expect it to be priced more or less in the same price range as the Hexa, perhaps 13.5 to 19 lakh. And then with the seven seater, they will get another opportunity to break the 20L barrier.
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Old 1st November 2018, 17:03   #1279
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re: Tata H5X Concept @ Auto Expo 2018. Named Tata Harrier! EDIT: Launched @ Rs. 12.69 lakhs

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Originally Posted by Strangerintown View Post
The Harrier is smaller than the Hexa (and maybe slightly smaller than the XUV) and will also feature the Unibody construction of Discovery Sport instead of a full fat body on frame. Hence I do not see why it should be heavier than the XUV.

I suspect the 140Hp engine output in this case should make the vehicle far livelier than the Hexa.
I was talking about Creta/Compass which are supposedly a competition as in 5-seater segment, not XUV 500.
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Old 1st November 2018, 17:20   #1280
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re: Tata H5X Concept @ Auto Expo 2018. Named Tata Harrier! EDIT: Launched @ Rs. 12.69 lakhs

I find it very funny when people expect Tata to launch a premium SUV to be priced at the level of an Brezza or Ertiga. This is a competitor to Creta/Compass/XUV so why should it be priced any lower? This is a smart ; a tad overdone with bells and whistles. I think Tata's pricing strategy is bang on.



Hexa is maintaining decent numbers. For people to put faith in Tata with 20 L will take time and will happen over period of time. They should not lower the value of their offering or it would face fate of a Nano which got tagged as a "cheap car" though the little tyke is quite a competent car
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Old 1st November 2018, 18:56   #1281
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re: Tata H5X Concept @ Auto Expo 2018. Named Tata Harrier! EDIT: Launched @ Rs. 12.69 lakhs

There is no problem with Tata's pricing. The problem is with building up an image. If people dont warm up to the price quickly and then others compete with their own offerings, it will not sell well. Unlike the MUV segment, small SUV or SUV segment is very active and we will see many offerings from others. For people willing to spend 20 lakh, its not an issue to spend a couple of lakhs more. Its not the small car space where price is very sensitive.

Last edited by theMAG : 1st November 2018 at 21:10. Reason: Grammatics fixed. "a"="an"
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Old 1st November 2018, 19:55   #1282
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re: Tata H5X Concept @ Auto Expo 2018. Named Tata Harrier! EDIT: Launched @ Rs. 12.69 lakhs

Some more info. trickles in on the S/CUV,

- The interior will get a dedicated storage area to stow away smartphones for all passengers

- Rear passengers who sit next to the windows will have a space provided on the doors while the passenger in the centre will be able to keep their smartphones in the centre console, behind the front armrest.

-The front armrest will get an inbuilt cooled storage area, at least in the top-spec Harrier

- Placement of coolbox in the front armrest makes it accessible for rear passengers as well

-Tata Harrier will come with a black and beige dual tone interior.

Link
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Old 1st November 2018, 22:02   #1283
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re: Tata H5X Concept @ Auto Expo 2018. Named Tata Harrier! EDIT: Launched @ Rs. 12.69 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by nainan View Post
That the pricing is definitely not working is obvious from the fact that Tata has not revealed the number of bookings they have got and the rather hastily timed first Harrier off the production line reveal which happened in a rather quiet manner.

Given that Hyundai are planning to go for a 7 seater Tucson next time round and looking at a Creta 7 seater the concept of a premium 5 seater is only represented by the Compass which too if we look at the sales trend does not seem to have a future. In such an environment it would be advisable for Tata to look at starting their ex-showroom price in the 10-12 lakh bracket and limit the year one model to a 15-16 lakh ex show room top-end. This will give them mass market volumes and a perception of a value for money SUV.
Wow Sir

I donít know if your comments are to be taken as sarcasm, but if I were to take them literally then why shouldnít Tata sell Harrier for free?

Even after demostrating their capability with the recent launches, some of us still want to give them the short end of stick for no reason.

By this logic Iím pretty sure that some people would demand Range Rover Velar at a price lower than Vitara Brazza.

Given the pedigree of this car, I would be pleasantly surprised if they manage to launch it in the range of 16-20 lakh ex-showroom.

They have already proved the haters wrong with Tiago and Nexon. Iím sure that this is going to be a successful product for them.
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Old 1st November 2018, 23:41   #1284
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re: Tata H5X Concept @ Auto Expo 2018. Named Tata Harrier! EDIT: Launched @ Rs. 12.69 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuelinmyveins View Post
Wow Sir

I donít know if your comments are to be taken as sarcasm, but if I were to take them literally then why shouldnít Tata sell Harrier for free?

Even after demostrating their capability with the recent launches, some of us still want to give them the short end of stick for no reason.

By this logic Iím pretty sure that some people would demand Range Rover Velar at a price lower than Vitara Brazza.

Given the pedigree of this car, I would be pleasantly surprised if they manage to launch it in the range of 16-20 lakh ex-showroom.

They have already proved the haters wrong with Tiago and Nexon. Iím sure that this is going to be a successful product for them.
Sir, please dial down on the sarcasm. Your post has nothing but exaggerations. The pedigree of the Jeep Compass along with the Jeep brand itself was not enough to give a sustainable volume of 2000 per month.

Now lets talk about pedigree. The Harrier has only inherited a cost/material optimized core structure from the discovery sport of which Tata just claims torsional strength and noise insulation. Barring this I see the rest of the engineering bits as being Tata which is not a bad thing having owned a Safari but does this one bit entail it to be premium over a Hexa which is bigger, seats more and is a very refined vehicle on its own.

I find the Nexon/Hexa and Tiago all good value for their price. The Storme too is a capable vehicle that the Indian Army uses though the Safari siluhoutte is quite dated.

So when Tata is looking at a sustanability strategy pricing is important. Now yes I also think that pricing is achievable for Tata as all the Landrover research and experience on the D8 is a saving. The design of the robotic assembly line too is a derivative and requires only 10% manual intervention.

I am happy to be corrected if you have an alternative logic other than the hazy use of the word pedigree which unless you are privy to any other Land Rover feature or technology used is just the core shell.

I am a Tata fan and want to see the brand win with sustainable volumes for the quality SUVs which they have been building from the 90s. I dread a repeat if the Aria blunder where marketing and pricing did a fine job of diminishing the sucess and pedigree created by the Sierra and Safari.
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Old 2nd November 2018, 03:04   #1285
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re: Tata H5X Concept @ Auto Expo 2018. Named Tata Harrier! EDIT: Launched @ Rs. 12.69 lakhs

Came across this poll today in Autocar.
Name:  Screen Shot 20181102 at 2.58.57 AM.png
Views: 4658
Size:  59.2 KB

If this poll was influenced by Tata marketing by any chance, then that means Tata is trying to verify positioning it as a VFM alternative to Compass. Creta doesn't feature as an option, so we can stop hoping for Creta competitive prices now I guess.
Anyone got any insider information on the volume Tata is expecting from this?
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Old 2nd November 2018, 03:43   #1286
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re: Tata H5X Concept @ Auto Expo 2018. Named Tata Harrier! EDIT: Launched @ Rs. 12.69 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by nainan View Post

Given that Hyundai are planning to go for a 7 seater Tucson next time round and looking at a Creta 7 seater the concept of a premium 5 seater is only represented by the Compass which too if we look at the sales trend does not seem to have a future. In such an environment it would be advisable for Tata to look at starting their ex-showroom price in the 10-12 lakh bracket and limit the year one model to a 15-16 lakh ex show room top-end. This will give them mass market volumes and a perception of a value for money SUV.

With regards to the 7 seats, please go and see the Honda CRV 2018 and try sitting in the 3rd row for 15 minutes. You ll begin re evaluating the need for the third row.

The 5 seater SUV will sell alongside the 7 seater ones, in this age of nuclear familes. It is nothing but rhetoric and possibly your personal opinion that they don't have a future. I respectfully disagree.

Also, before advising tata to aim for the 10-12 lakh bracket, please consider:

1) The 2.0L Diesel engine instead of the 1.4 ltr the Creta comes with in this range.

2) The sheer size of the vehicle - The Harrier is a Tuscon / CRV sized vehicle at the Creta Price. Thats one segment up.
(Source: https://www.cardekho.com/india-car-n...pass-21395.htm)
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Old 2nd November 2018, 06:51   #1287
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re: Tata H5X Concept @ Auto Expo 2018. Named Tata Harrier! EDIT: Launched @ Rs. 12.69 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbhiJ View Post
With regards to the 7 seats, please go and see the Honda CRV 2018 and try sitting in the 3rd row for 15 minutes. You ll begin re evaluating the need for the third row.

The 5 seater SUV will sell alongside the 7 seater ones, in this age of nuclear familes. It is nothing but rhetoric and possibly your personal opinion that they don't have a future. I respectfully disagree.

Also, before advising tata to aim for the 10-12 lakh bracket, please consider:

1) The 2.0L Diesel engine instead of the 1.4 ltr the Creta comes with in this range.

2) The sheer size of the vehicle - The Harrier is a Tuscon / CRV sized vehicle at the Creta Price. Thats one segment up.
(Source: https://www.cardekho.com/india-car-n...pass-21395.htm)
The "premium" 5 seater does not have a market in India as per sales data. Please see the Tucson and Compass sales which both combined give you roughly under 2000 units per month and numbers are shrinking every month. The Creta sells 10000 plus consistently. I have previously provided an analysis again based on publicly available Tata statements which point to the Tata targets for the Harrier being 5000-10000 units per month. So the pricing has to be more Creta oriented than Compass. So now that is analysis. Since you have not made any point other than the "Age of Nuclear families" I will agree to disagree?

To the 2 points you have made the Tata Hexa is made by the same brand is 200 mm longer, uses a very capable 2.2 litre engine with more power 156 Bhp and more torque 400nm and has a third row. And yet you find it reasonable for the Harrier to cost more than a Hexa. Oh wait since the core shell is based on a Land Rover core shell it should cost more.

Now the million dollar question is can Tata price it at that point the answer to which too is a resounding yes as the Harrier is 100% Made in India uses the same materials(Omega Arc is D8 minus all the costly bits) as the Hexa/Safari uses a robotic manufacturing line with much more automation(90%). Unless they are using any gold switch contacts (has been done before in aviation) at least all public information suggests its possible.

Now lastly remember Royal Enfield is pricing their 650 cc twins Made in India under 3 lakh to win the volume game while a localized Kawasaki of 300 cc is costlier than that.

The motorcycle world has proved time and again that for a brand to succeed in India in number they need to provide a better than the market product at a better than the market price.

If you have any facts/data please respond I will be happy to correct myself and learn from you. If not I understand your opinion on the pricing well enough now.
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Old 2nd November 2018, 07:14   #1288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arit.mondal View Post
Came across this poll today in Autocar.

Attachment 1814160



If this poll was influenced by Tata marketing by any chance, then that means Tata is trying to verify positioning it as a VFM alternative to Compass. Creta doesn't feature as an option, so we can stop hoping for Creta competitive prices now I guess.

Anyone got any insider information on the volume Tata is expecting from this?

I posted it earlier as well - I do think TATA is testing waters before decision on the prices. Since pricing in today's market has nothing to do with the cost, it is atypically decided right in the end.

Thus, the more junta says "its competitive", the more chances TATA will price it higher....unless, their marketing strategy is to create the impression of higher price, and then launch it at lower levels.

I hope it's the latter, not former.
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Old 2nd November 2018, 10:37   #1289
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re: Tata H5X Concept @ Auto Expo 2018. Named Tata Harrier! EDIT: Launched @ Rs. 12.69 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by nainan View Post
If you have any facts/data please respond I will be happy to correct myself and learn from you. If not I understand your opinion on the pricing well enough now.
Many of us just want to see Tata do well and so we initially think 16-21 may be justified (esp. looking at some overpriced alternatives and the marketing around Harrier). You are providing a very different perspective here and I hope Tata answers the difficult questions you raise in their mind before pricing this product. This will benefit consumers like us!
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Old 2nd November 2018, 10:59   #1290
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re: Tata H5X Concept @ Auto Expo 2018. Named Tata Harrier! EDIT: Launched @ Rs. 12.69 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by nainan View Post
The "premium" 5 seater does not have a market in India as per sales data.

Please see the Tucson and Compass sales which both combined give you roughly under 2000 units per month and numbers are shrinking every month. The Creta sells 10000 plus consistently.

And yet you find it reasonable for the Harrier to cost more than a Hexa. Oh wait since the core shell is based on a Land Rover core shell it should cost more.

Now the million dollar question is can Tata price it at that point the answer to which too is a resounding yes as the Harrier is 100% Made in India uses the same materials(Omega Arc is D8 minus all the costly bits) as the Hexa/Safari uses a robotic manufacturing line with much more automation(90%). Unless they are using any gold switch contacts (has been done before in aviation) at least all public information suggests its possible.
Alright.. Couple of things...

Creta price range is goes upto 15 lac ex showroom and it is a 5 seater. And yet market for 5 seater SUV doesnt exist? Once the creta converts to 7 seater (2020 easy since they just refreshed the model) , these people who are happy with 5 seats will dissappear.

If only 7 seats were a criteria, the BRV and ertiga would have stolen Creta sales.

What you are expecting from Tata is fantastic from a consumer point of view, however might be a tough ask. Gold contacts aside, you conveniently forget that Tata is not using its own Engine or Automatic gearbox. These will raise costs over in house produced components, i am guessing.

The hexa is a commercial failure. Its a capable vehicle which should havr dented Innova sales due to its lower prices but it didnt. I have test driven and not bought the car. The MUV look is a big contributor to that in my opinion. If they make a cheaper Hexa, it still won't set the sales charts on fire. They need the car to be desirable. They need the interiors to reek of quality. They need niggle free reliability. I for one will gladly pay extra for the last 3 points i mentioned.
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