[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by motorworks

So the market has moved up and why should Tata underprice themselves, if they have a good product on hand. Sure, they are supposed to be a VFM brand, but they do not have to give the market a shocker price! The product is good, so get the price right and wait to see the market reaction.

They have already burnt their fingers (and more) by advertising earlier cars as cheap. In fact considering the product quality, it won't be a bad idea to launch it at Creta prices or slightly higher. It would just take the gloss away from the Creta and position the Harrier as a more premium offering.

Originally Posted by prakash_ajp

Compass is doing well over thousand a month (used to do over 2000), and Tuscon just over a hundred. So, it's not correct to put them together just for the sake of it.

Compass is suffering due to the lack of a diesel automatic version. If the harrier offers a diesel automatic version with options of 6 airbags, a panoramic sunroof and some bells and whistles from others (ventilated seats from Verna, awesome ICE from Hexa etc) it will be a runaway success.

I was following a test mule on NH4 last week for a few kms, and it has a really imposing stance.

[uday.ere]

A new interior video has surfaced on YouTube courtesy channel Rotelinie. It's more a collection of pics rather than a proper video.

Relevant one is the view of the rear seat

Couple of pics from the same video below.

Source : https://indianautosblog-com.cdn.ampp...t-spied-314614

[nainan]

Originally Posted by motorworks

2020

Will that not give Mahindra time to consolidate the segment with both the XUV 500 and the XUV 700 cornering a lions share of that market.

Why think that Tata would not know what we know? Are the sales numbers not out there for everyone to see?

I think they know and hence the confusion

The Creta top end costs somewhere around 16-17 Lakhs

Actually 19 lakhs OTR in Bengaluru for the Auto + Option pack which I think is overpriced.

Originally Posted by prakash_ajp

Compass is doing well over thousand a month (used to do over 2000), and Tuscon just over a hundred. So, it's not correct to put them together just for the sake of it.



Besides, "building gradually" doesn't appear to be helping Hyundai, does it?

Compass and Tucson put together only as premium 5 seater SUVs.

On Hyundai building gradually the came up to 19 for the Creta. The above 20 lakh market seems to only open up for 7 seaters and mostly Toyota.

[discoverwild]

I remember someone on this very thread and having insider information say that the 7-seater has not yet hit the road for testing.

If the underpinnings are the same, there's not much of a need to test it separately from the start and probably we will get to see mules around March next year. Tata might showcase the H7x at the Auto Expo and launch it for the festive season.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by motorworks

Just for a reference, a bare bones Compass costs 20L and the mid variants are around 23-25L. And the Tucson starts there. And all the big guys like T-fort and Endy are all 35L plus. So the market has moved up and why should Tata underprice themselves, if they have a good product on hand. Sure, they are supposed to be a VFM brand, but they do not have to give the market a shocker price! The product is good, so get the price right and wait to see the market reaction.

Agree completely!

Hyundai created a segment for themselves with creta, rather than conform to market habits on categorise themselves based on 'imaginary' price brackets. Before the Creta's launch such a market segment did not exist, and Hyundai made people pay that money for a 5 seater car.

The market was ready to pay more where they saw VFM. This is what Tata should aim to do. A majority of the market do not want to be associated with the 'cheaper car' tag, and for those who do, they must have purchased a brezza by now.

Harrier should be a VFM product no doubt but not by being priced low. It should encourage people to pay more because they think it is worth the additional money due to the design, safety, features etc... The product should not be engineered to be stuck in a price bracket simply because another manufacturer found success there!

The SUV segment is red hot at the moment and Tata have a cutting edge product that is appealing and unlike anything in the market atm. Tata has made it clear they would like to re-position the brand and therefore people should aspire to own the Harrier because it's a better product not a cheaper one.

Originally Posted by nainan

Will that not give Mahindra time to consolidate the segment with both the XUV 500 and the XUV 700 cornering a lions share of that market.

Not if Tata has the better product and people do not mind waiting for it, and from what we know so far it definitely looks like it. Plus people who wanted an XUV500 would have one by now, and from what I have seen of the Sangyong rexton here, one would be better of with an existing 500 and save the remaining money in hand.

[rajshenoy]

Originally Posted by shortbread

Hyundai created a segment for themselves with creta, rather than conform to market habits on categorise themselves based on 'imaginary' price brackets. Before the Creta's launch such a market segment did not exist, and Hyundai made people pay that money for a 5 seater car.

Well, often the success is due to perceived VFM. Creta and S-Cross were launched almost together and the Creta became instant hit because Maruti made a rare blunder of overpricing S-Cross. Also for the SUV loving country, Creta made better sense than a cross hatch looking S-Cross.

I have seen the same happen with Honda Jazz(older gen) and Hyundai i20. Thanks to the Honda pricing, i20 suddenly appeared VFM to many and i know people who bought i20 because it offered much more as a package(6 air bags etc)

Coming back to Tata H5X, It will be a 5 seater and will always be compared with its peers - Creta, Duster, Kaptur OR Compass, XUV depending on how they price it.

My bet is H5X selling south of 15L to make room for the bigger H7X which will compete with the XUV and beyond.

[nainan]

Originally Posted by discoverwild

I remember someone on this very thread and having insider information say that the 7-seater has not yet hit the road for testing.

If the underpinnings are the same, there's not much of a need to test it separately from the start and probably we will get to see mules around March next year. Tata might showcase the H7x at the Auto Expo and launch it for the festive season.

It is testing according to this eyewitness post:-

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ml#post4421757

[discoverwild]

Originally Posted by nainan

It is testing according to this eyewitness post:-

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ml#post4421757

Since you insisted, I spent time going through the posts on this thread and here it is from Page 32.

Saw newly born Tata Harrier today. Dont ask me where. Trust me, the suv looks exactly similar to the concept. The H7X or 7 seater version of Harrier is not yet out for a test. From all these days we have been seeing 5 seater versions only. The seven seater is little boxy from behind yet unique and beautiful.

Source

[tushky]

Originally Posted by nainan

It is testing according to this eyewitness post:-

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ml#post4421757

I had said that 7 seat version is not on test yet. I have seen the design of 7 seat version and it is more boxy from behind. The test mules in this spy photos are similar to H5X. You can see the shape of 7 seater Harrier in this photo.

[vaasscit]

Originally Posted by shortbread

BSVI will carry a heavy premium!

The smart move is to introduce it along with your rivals, when there is an industry-wide hike in prices! Using a BSVI power-train at launch would mean the Harrier (which is already expected to carry a premium price tag) simply being priced itself out of most customers wish list.

What creates an immediate sales impact would be an attractive introductory price. Tata would then normalise (i.e. raise) prices in a year or so once it reaches the targeted sales, and use the new emission norms as a convenient excuse for a hefty price hike.

I don't think it would make financial sense to bring in BS -IV compliant powertrain (Engine + 2 different Transmissions) only to be replaced with BS -VI compliant powertrains exactly a year later.

I suspect the Dealer here. They are so habituated in selling BS-IV in cities and BS-III in towns. Since the official bookings are not open, by his old habit he has probably written Harrier BS-IV. Since he has nothing else to write.

I hope Harrier would come with BS-VI complaint powertrain @ launch.

Lets see. Time would tell.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by vaasscit

I don't think it would make financial sense to bring in BS -IV compliant power-train (Engine + 2 different Transmissions) only to be replaced with BS -VI compliant power-trains exactly a year later.

The BS -IV compliant power-train is already in production (Fiat engines and Hyundai boxes), and are off the shelf purchases for Tata. They are not developing this from scratch and apart from unit cost has no other financial exposure.

It also makes financial sense if the a BS-IV car will undercut a BS-VI by 1-2 lacs. Imagine the state of Compass sales if it gets a 1.5 lac hike compared to rest of the competition?!

Nearly 3 lac Indians brought a new car last month despite none of them being BS6. What exactly is Tata going to gain by offering a BS-VI Harrier?

[nainan]

Originally Posted by tushky

I had said that 7 seat version is not on test yet. I have seen the design of 7 seat version and it is more boxy from behind. The test mules in this spy photos are similar to H5X. You can see the shape of 7 seater Harrier in this photo.

There I have attached the high res version of that frame which I used to trace the outline. I have since drawn it in 3d and the rear looks like this:-

Probable H7X mule

I also compared it with another of the mules going around:-

Harrier Mule

The rear glass occupies a much larger area on the tailgate in the second pic. The B pillar is much more angled in the second pic than the first. There are other pics and subhomotos post that I had linked which claim a difference in physical size all suggesting 2 different models testing.

I have no sources close to the testing so all inferences only based on the pictures/posts on Team BHP plus the 3d model I constructed based on the pics.

My apologies if I am dragging this too long but my inference is that the H7X is being tested and should be close to production readiness. Its just that this SUV has generated so much interest that I channel all of it in second guessing what Tata would be doing.

[tushky]

Originally Posted by nainan

There I have attached the high res version of that frame which I used to trace the outline. I have since drawn it in 3d and the rear looks like this:-

Probable H7X mule

I also compared it with another of the mules going around:-

Harrier Mule

The rear glass occupies a much larger area on the tailgate in the second pic. The B pillar is much more angled in the second pic than the first. There are other pics and subhomotos post that I had linked which claim a difference in physical size all suggesting 2 different models testing.

I have no sources close to the testing so all inferences only based on the pictures/posts on Team BHP plus the 3d model I constructed based on the pics.

My apologies if I am dragging this too long but my inference is that the H7X is being tested and should be close to production readiness. Its just that this SUV has generated so much interest that I channel all of it in second guessing what Tata would be doing.

On 11th August, i saw newly born Harrier without camouflage in Tata motors plant. And on the same day i saw design of H7X from a close source. There was not a single mule of H7X running in Tata motors plant. All were H5X and 45X. So now if recently H7X is on test then i have not been updated yet. However the test mules spotted in Ladakh are certainly not H7X. Till C pillar, the H5X and H7X looks same. The H7X profile is more similar to this SRK rendering.

And regarding to the High resolution image you have mentioned, i think it is the screenshot of 10sec. Image. And i feel that on that moment you have got screen shot of mixture of both H5X and H7X profiles. Hence it is looking more curvy. Watch closely at 11 sec. You will see a little boxy profile.

https://youtu.be/IlK0RKoJF-4

[nainan]

Originally Posted by tushky

On 11th August, i saw newly born Harrier without camouflage in Tata motors plant. And on the same day i saw design of H7X from a close source. There was not a single mule of H7X running in Tata motors plant.

Thanks for sharing so 2 years at least for the 7 seater I imagine taking the H5X timeline into account if they have not even done a prototype at this point. You cannot use the Harrier tests for a 7 seat SUV where the additional weight, different centre of gravity, drivetrain etc will need separate testing.

And regarding to the High resolution image you have mentioned, i think it is the screenshot of 10sec. Image. And i feel that on that moment you have got screen shot of mixture of both H5X and H7X profiles. Hence it is looking more curvy. Watch closely at 11 sec. You will see a little boxy profile.

No the H7X moves back before the H5X is formed. I actually captured all the frames between 6 and 12 seconds. For what its worth I have the 10th and 11th second frames. The green SUV is consistent in both images, taller than the H5X, less tapering roof and distinct C & D pillars unlike the H5X and its blended C pillar. Also the H7X has a significant overhang of the tail light in this angle. The tail light also has a very prominent extension reaching out half the distance between c & d pillar. The headlight pod is much bigger than the H5X and is not subdivided in 3 parts

[puntOOs]

One of the cons of the Hexa was the high kerb weight. Do we know if this new platform will result in much lower kerb weight for Harrier/H7X? Does anyone have an inkling of the actual kerb weight?