[Rahul Rao]

Originally Posted by noopster

Jalsa77’s Hexa engine head recall thread has already raised alarms in my head.

There is no recall. Jalsa77 himself posted that it was an over zealous interpretation from a service advisor.
These days we are using a co contractors Hexa XTA for long distance runs together, we have done many one day Pune Vapi, Pune Belgaon and back trips, as we are currently doing 4 sites together, and his office only one building away from mine, I am totally in touch with his vehicle. On seeing this thread I told him to immediately inquire with the dealer.
Here too the reply was same that there is no recall.
One thing for sure Tata service for the Hexa is better than what service I'm getting for my Nissan Terrano.



Rahul

[civic-sense]

Originally Posted by motorworks

Yes, Tata is building Harrier thru the Lego route. Sure, they can easily just add a 3rd row and AT like how you build a Lego and then just flush all the money down the drain and wait till 2020.

How do so many of the folks conclude things so easily? There is a lot of feedback of the Harrier, especially in our forum, and also many reviews from auto magazines and journalists. Almost all of them seem to state that the product is good, albeit a few niggles and complaints on certain features or aspects of the car. Which car has satisfied 100 percent of the consumers? None!

And you need to see the car in real world, at a dealer ship, take a test drive, review the price when announced and then come back to your handheld device to genuinely state something like half baked product or not.

You do not have to like the product, but do not spread negativity without proper analysis. Your views and thoughts are always welcome, but not some random statements.

Niggles do matter, as not everybody is adventurous, and not everybody is waiting to try-out a new Tata car. Also the Harrier's chief competitor is going to be the XUV500, which has 7 seats. Now, if Tata plans to add a third row after a year, as suggested by some news reports, serious buyers will stay away until then. And at that time the new gen XUV500 would be out and will be competing with the one-year-old Harrier.

A 5 seater Harrier without AT and lots of niggles is more likely to be a market failure, and once failed, it will be difficult to revive it even with an improved V2.

Hence it is better for them to launch the finished product (7 seats and AT), than launch this stop gap arrangement now.

[Sebring]

Wow! The blue shade on this Discovery sport will look great on the Harrier I feel. And Yes, you're right JLR has indeed moved to the next-gen platform, and have left the 'legacy platform' for India.

Originally Posted by 84.monsoon

In the meantime, JLR seems to have moved on to the next generation platform beyond D8, which underpins the new Range Rover Evoque. This will soon make its way into the next Gen Discovery sport, ensuring Tata Motors India is working only with a legacy JLR platform and not a current one🤔

[Behemoth]

Originally Posted by Sebring

Hi, I think I'm in a better position to answer the query as I have experienced both products. Harrier sports better interiors than Kicks and is really plush. The engine is 2 Liter from Fiat, so punchier. (The 1.3, is the national engine - as you know). The steel strength, as measured by the weight of its bonnet, is unparalleled in Harrier (I couldn't pull it up easily). Sales and service wise, I'd go with Tata than Nissan - right now. Nissan's future in India is anybody's guess. So why are you inclined towards Kicks is what I really am curious about?

Several reasons:
I am actually ex-Tata Motors and my personal experience is that their initial cars do suffer from quality and supplier issues. It takes them almost a year to get these sorted.

While the Harrier offers class leading space and design, the finesse and finishing of the plastics is a grade below that expected in a 16 L car.
I also have a Jeep Compass in my Garage and it has the 170bhp 350 Nm engine so the 140bhp version is a downtuned version of that in a possibly heavier car. I am not looking for a spirited car to replace my Laura as we already have the JC. What I need is a reliable convenient City runabout vehicle (hence automatic) and smaller size will be an advantage in our case.

Also in my experience engine power and torque figures do not relate well to real world performance and in reality my 110 bhp 250 Nm Laura is faster (almost 1 second in 0-100kmph) than my JC and more fun to drive. The Compass has an advantage only on bad roads due to its suspension. However the boot space of the Compass ( actual 320 L against 400+ claimed by the Company) is very less compared to the Laura which has close to 480L (actual). The Harrier should have a 400L+ actual bootspace (spare is below the car). The Kicks also has a full 400L bootspace as their spare is also below. I have measured the Captur bootspace which is close to 390+ L and much bigger than the Compass bootspace in reality.

Apart from this Tata service in Gurgaon is not really great and they are more Taxi segment oriented and not upto the level of premium cars. A customer spending almost 17-18 lacs on a car expects a better service experience.

If Tata were to really change the game by offering a 7 seater automatic at 16L ex showroom that would really sway it for me to the Harrier.

[Sebring]

Pricing will decide if Harrier will compete with Creta or the XUV 7-seater. That's still some way to go. As I eagerly await this to be announced on 23rd, I'm hoping against hope that they target Creta bang on, or even undercut it. Since I'm yet to test drive the vehicle, will comment on the drive and (niggles part) post the launch!

Originally Posted by civic-sense

Harrier's chief competitor is going to be the XUV500, which has 7 seats

[Latheesh]

Originally Posted by Behemoth

If Tata were to really change the game by offering a 7 seater automatic at 16L ex showroom that would really sway it for me to the Harrier.

SUV based on modified LR platform + 7 seats + Auto Box from Tuscon + 6 airbags and other safety features + Nice ICE system, all these are not going to come at 16L ex-showroom. I am not from Tata Motors, but you can check other alternatives.

[Palio_2005]

Originally Posted by civic-sense

Niggles do matter, as not everybody is adventurous, and not everybody is waiting to try-out a new Tata car. Also the Harrier's chief competitor is going to be the XUV500, which has 7 seats. Now, if Tata plans to add a third row after a year, as suggested by some news reports, serious buyers will stay away until then. And at that time the new gen XUV500 would be out and will be competing with the one-year-old Harrier.

A 5 seater Harrier without AT and lots of niggles is more likely to be a market failure, and once failed, it will be difficult to revive it even with an improved V2.

Hence it is better for them to launch the finished product (7 seats and AT), than launch this stop gap arrangement now.

Why are you assuming that the product will have lots of niggles? Does Hexa have any major issues? Go to XUV thread and you will see people still complaining about niggles. Same with Compass. Niggles are a part of each product. Severity is the key.



By your argument Creta should be selling less than XUV since it is a 5 seater. Compass should not sell at all since it's the most expensive and is 5 seater. That's not the case right.

[nainan]

Originally Posted by Sebring

Wow! The blue shade on this Discovery sport will look great on the Harrier I feel. And Yes, you're right JLR has indeed moved to the next-gen platform, and have left the 'legacy platform' for India.

The Evoque is not on their next generation MLA platform but on a derivative of D8 called PTA which has been modified primarily for electrification. This platform is expected to underpin all their small models till 2025.

The Omega Arc too is another D8 derivative which is optimised for cost and is electrification ready as per Tata statements. So its not 'legacy platform for India' rather Tata specific derivative and JLR specific derivative.

The D8 platform will underpin new small models until the 2024-25 financial year, after which the cars will switch to the MLA. Before then, JLR will update the platform, now called Premium Transverse Architecture (PTA), to include plug-in hybrid and 48-volt mild hybrid models. The first model to use it will be the new Range Rover Evoque, which is expected to go on sale next year.

source

Originally Posted by civic-sense

Also the Harrier's chief competitor is going to be the XUV500, which has 7 seats.

Tata statements on the competition have centred around the Creta and the Compass. I provided references a few pages back. Proper competition for the XUV is the H7X which Tata has confirmed will be launched in 2019.

A 5 seater Harrier without AT and lots of niggles is more likely to be a market failure, and once failed, it will be difficult to revive it even with an improved V2.

As per a recent Cartoq article at least in case of the Creta 70% sales are diesel and 80% of these manual. They also state that the starting diesel trim is the bestseller. Hence with this buying pattern they can address 60% of the market which at 6000-7000 units is substantial and the auto launch will help them address and 10-15 %.

Tata cars from the Hexa or even Aria onwards have been relatively niggle free and while there are some issues these are primarily premiumness/ergonomic and not really 'niggles' which in my opinion are more issues where something does not perform as intended.

Hence it is better for them to launch the finished product (7 seats and AT), than launch this stop gap arrangement now.

The Harrier at least to me(I had gone for the Discover event) looked quite finished and definitely not a stopgap. They have released what they had finished and has a market and did not release what was unfinished(AT).

The 7 seater has a different market in which AT and 4WD matters a lot more as every competitor has both and a delayed launch allows them to gauge reactions from the Harrier. They also have a product in this space(the Safari) so it makes more sense to take their time.

In an ideal world both SUVs launching together was best but a less than 1 year delay between both is also not a bad compromise if they can bring a better more integrated product.

[rovingeye]

Originally Posted by nainan

Tata statements on the competition have centred around the Creta and the Compass. I provided references a few pages back. Proper competition for the XUV is the H7X which Tata has confirmed will be launched in 2019.

There are two more, soon to be launched, 5 seat guys chasing the Harrier - the Kia SP Concept and the Hector, also known in China as the Baojun 530 and just launched in Columbia as Chevy Captiva. Incidentally, both look very interesting and both will have much to prove, so they might throw the kitchen sink at Indian buyers.

It's starting to get really hot for the Harrier.

[Latheesh]

Originally Posted by nainan

The Harrier at least to me(I had gone for the Discover event) looked quite finished and definitely not a stopgap. They have released what they had finished and has a market and did not release what was unfinished(AT).

I think 5 seater AT is ready. Here in this thread members including me have made price predictions, and some saying it should start sub 10L price range. There is no way they can make every components with top notch quality + AT and undercut products like Creta.

They do not have pricing constraints if they launch 7 seater + AT + AWD + Better Interior + Slightly modified exterior as competitors/segment is entirely different.

[vigneshkumar31]

Originally Posted by Behemoth

However the boot space of the Compass ( actual 320 L against 400+ claimed by the Company) is very less compared to the Laura which has close to 480L (actual). The Harrier should have a 400L+ actual bootspace (spare is below the car). The Kicks also has a full 400L bootspace as their spare is also below. I have measured the Captur bootspace which is close to 390+ L and much bigger than the Compass bootspace in reality

Maybe slightly OT, but thought I'd chip on the luggage calculations, as I had researched this while looking through the Endeavour's boot space numbers.

A volumetric integration of the actual boot dimensions would be of less practical value unless we want to use it as a fuel tank/water reservoir because 'real shaped' luggage and door handles/hinges and curvature etc severely deplete the number.

The VDA (German) system uses standard 1000cc wood blocks, of 20cmx10cmx5cm and checks how many of these 'liter' blocks is the manufacturer able to stack practically within the boot like Jenga and this is declared as X litres of boot space. European, Japanese, Korean marques like Honda, Toyota, Kia, Hyundai, Audi, BMW all use this unit. This is more realistic and conservative.

Because the Yanks have to do everything differently, the SAE (US) uses a different system using 'standard' replica of usual luggage items, or use smaller blocks and stack it cleverly to arrive at the total luggage volume as X liters. This SAE figure generally conveys a large liter figure than VDA. Jeep, Dodge etc. use this method.

In your case, the Skoda and Captur being European origin, might declare the more conservative VDA number compared to the Jeep's SAE claim and hence closer to the measured 'reality'.

I would consider these numbers as ball park only and actually try to fit the largest item I intend to carry and check for myself if its a real deal breaker.

For e.g., a hatch/sedan I would use daily, I would try to check if the child stroller can fit comfortably, or if its the SUV, I would see if I can snuck in a mountain bike, with the seats down. If its the V cross, I would check if it can lash down my Himalayan

P.S: I presume Tata and Mahindra use VDA, but will have to check.

[sdaityari]

Originally Posted by Behemoth

Several reasons:
Apart from this Tata service in Gurgaon is not really great and they are more Taxi segment oriented and not upto the level of premium cars.

Did you have a bad experience? Which dealers in NCR would you prefer to go in case of Tata / Nissan? I am relatively new to Delhi and I just do not trust any of the Safdarjung dealers.

[bbv]

Does any expert here have an idea on why would they detune the engine to give lesser torque and power? There are many articles stating this fact, but none of them care to justify this. So, is there a genuine advantage in any aspect by doing this? For example, would the fuel efficiency be better or something else?

[mercedised]

Originally Posted by bbv

Does any expert here have an idea on why would they detune the engine to give lesser torque and power? There are many articles stating this fact, but none of them care to justify this. So, is there a genuine advantage in any aspect by doing this? For example, would the fuel efficiency be better or something else?

Maybe they will be using the same engine in H7X and have reserved the higher output figures for that.

[RavenAvi]

Originally Posted by kalleo4

Ive tried to foresee the White HARRIER

Here's a real life pic of the Harrier in Orcus White shade, exclusive to Team-BHP:

Thanks to one of my birdies.