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Old 6th March 2019, 12:14   #106
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To put it in a nutshell, every vehicle is about compromises. Each is biased to greater/lesser degrees towards a certain use / context. I wouldn't own a DI for daily expressway use, nor my old 7-series BMW for Manali.

But who is the Extreme supposed to be for? Families needing a versatile all-rounder will reject it for its lack of comfort/safety/door count. And most weekend warriors (and/or their families/spouses) won't be able to stomach / justify the price.

Neither group will be so bold as to venture out into uncharted waters as far as service/support are concerned.

So who/what are we left with? A very nice, rather specialized toy/showpiece for the few willing /able spend for it.

If Force was looking only for an image-booster / special-market interest-generator it's fine, it just seems to me they could've done all that and actually come up with something that would actually sell a bunch, too. Isn't that what Isuzu has succeeded at?

Eric

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Going by that logic, everyone in the plains should be asking for the 3 cylinder 800 from Maruti.

That isnít the case, because the world has moved on. Your requirement is very specific to a type of engine and a manufacturer - the number of people who think along those lines is probably less than the number of customers Force will get for their Xtreme.

Youíre happy with your Marshal and nobody is debating that. Let those that MAY buy the Force for what it is, buy it - just donít expect them to build a Marshal replica because that is not what the market wants, and it wonít meet regulations either. They do sell a 5 door version with a 2.6 engine, unfortunately turbo-charged and common-railed. So youíre never going to buy a Force product out of a showroom.

There is this little lore in the Defender groups - those that buy very used vehicles cheap to build it up to their own specs shouldnít be preaching to the factory as to what they should put in the market. Because that group would never buy a brand new Defender out of a showroom.
My goodness people, READ!!! I wrote three posts below that I'd buy the 5-door Gurkha once it becomes affordable to us second-hand!!! Related positive things about the little CR d70 mHawk. And even earlier mentioned the FE / emissions benefits of more modern engines as being important considerations. I'm not going to mention my appreciation of Fortuners a fourth time...

No issues with other brands or types of engines, but if I'm going to stretch the budget, the car needs to do everything at least as well as our current one. And my comments below about the broader market appeal (lack thereof) for the Extreme are not, I think, subjective.

-Eric

Last edited by khan_sultan : 6th March 2019 at 13:35. Reason: Back to back posts.
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Old 8th March 2019, 00:58   #107
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Default Re: Force Gurkha facelift with 140 BHP coming up. EDIT : Now launched @ Rs. 12.99 lakh

Wow!
This has become a debate rather than focusing on the core reason for the thread!
Personally, I like the Gurkha. Simple reason that some company is actually developing vehicles where their passion lies, and are not so concerned about the sales figures. Participation in RFC and making a one off Hyperbeast lifted Gurkha just for tinkering, clearly speaks about their interests.
If one looks at the competition.
The Thar needs a fair amount of modifications, and with aftermarket jobs there comes the issue of constant repairs. This puts the price nearly at par.

Everyone seems to be a bit concerned with the price of the Gurkha. Yes it is steep, when we look at the figures. While no one is actually looking, at how the prices of all these vehicles are shooting up. We get simple cross overs dressed as SUVs for a bigger price bracket.

The league this vehicle falls under is Thar and the pick up by Isuzu. Where the latter is also getting a revision in price.
Isuzu is more modern and with creature comforts. The size is a bit of a deterrent in traffic conditions and while looking for a space to park. Plus the long body is prone to get beached for serious off roaders. To tackle that we need to get it lifted a bit and spend more money.

I guess both vehicles have their pros and cons. Plus the debate of a classic boxy design vs the utility of a modern pick up truck, is what will be the deciding factor for anyone looking for a 4wd option. For all concerned with only 2wd- there are many more vehicles to look at.

The interiors in a Gurkha are spartan- which I personally feel suits the old school charm of it. One would build these vehicles up as per their preference, thus adding a personality to them.

Isuzu is a wonderful vehicle, the only question that nags me is what do I do with the deck that will be underutilised. Where as in a Gurkha it can support a good music system, and yet have space for daily chores and shopping.

These are the questions that have been in my mind since some time.

P.S. We all love our cars and have certain inclinations. It would be great if we discuss the vehicles than debating over issues that makes it derogatory.
Peace!
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Old 9th March 2019, 19:56   #108
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Default Re: Force Gurkha facelift with 140 BHP coming up. EDIT : Now launched @ Rs. 12.99 lakh

My cousin just picked up a Gurkha two days ago, a replacement for an 8 year old Thar. The Thar was a work vehicle doing duty in a plantation, hauling produce, fertilizer, saplings and sometimes hooked up with a trailer. The Isuzu wasn't considered because it's dimensions make it unsuitable for cramped spaces.

Few first observations
1. The engine is far more refined than the Thar's, dual mass flywheel.
2. The locking differential is great, works as intended.
3.Planned mod is change of tyre, Maxxis or Yokohama M/T

OTR price in Kerala is 14.85, a Thar is 11.

Attaching the snaps received.
Attached Thumbnails
Force Gurkha facelift with 140 BHP coming up. EDIT : Now launched @ Rs. 12.99 lakh-img20190309wa0008.jpg  

Force Gurkha facelift with 140 BHP coming up. EDIT : Now launched @ Rs. 12.99 lakh-img20190309wa0010.jpg  

Force Gurkha facelift with 140 BHP coming up. EDIT : Now launched @ Rs. 12.99 lakh-img20190309wa0009.jpg  

Force Gurkha facelift with 140 BHP coming up. EDIT : Now launched @ Rs. 12.99 lakh-img20190309wa0005.jpg  

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Old 9th March 2019, 20:46   #109
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Default Re: Force Gurkha facelift with 140 BHP coming up. EDIT : Now launched @ Rs. 12.99 lakh

Quote:
Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
My cousin just picked up a Gurkha two days ago, a replacement for an 8 year old Thar.

Few first observations
1. The engine is far more refined than the Thar's, dual mass flywheel.
2. The locking differential is great, works as intended.
.
Good to see someone related to Teambhp picking up the car. Any chance of a detailed review with a few pics thrown in. I am keenly looking at it primarily for site/highway duties (not for spirited driving). I Really love the stance o,f this and will be test driving it soon in Hyderabad.

@bhpians,
Wow the Car evoked some strong responses from the group. Any chance of getting the official Teambhp review soon. That should clear misconceptions if any.
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Old 9th March 2019, 22:51   #110
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Default Re: Force Gurkha facelift with 140 BHP coming up. EDIT : Now launched @ Rs. 12.99 lakh

Quote:
Originally Posted by indian21r View Post
Good to see someone related to Teambhp picking up the car. Any chance of a detailed review with a few pics thrown in. I am keenly looking at it primarily for site/highway duties (not for spirited driving). I Really love the stance o,f this and will be test driving it soon in Hyderabad.

@bhpians,
Wow the Car evoked some strong responses from the group. Any chance of getting the official Teambhp review soon. That should clear misconceptions if any.
I'm quite far away right now and I'll get to see the car only next month. I'll post a link if the review is put up on an off road forum. The owner isn't on team bhp.

This has a recirculating ball steering mechanism and is pretty bad in terms of feedback, not great for highway use according to the owner.
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Old 10th March 2019, 08:04   #111
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Default Re: Force Gurkha facelift with 140 BHP coming up. EDIT : Now launched @ Rs. 12.99 lakh

Quote:
Originally Posted by ringoism View Post
Do a thread search, there's quite a bit out there already. Disconnects hubs from drive axles. With 4x4 disengaged, they prevent the undriven front wheels from having to rotate connected axles, cross-joints, front differential gears, driveshaft, etc. A couple hp required maybe, thus the slight fuel savings. On old 4x4's they also help reduce a lot of driveline vibrations caused by worn / unbalanced components.

-Eric
Thanks a lot for your detaling, gone through threads & YouTube and got myself clarified. Now the question is does Gurkha comes ready with a lock or we need to arrange it after sales market?

Last edited by khan_sultan : 11th March 2019 at 13:04. Reason: Fixed quotes
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Old 10th March 2019, 11:21   #112
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Default Re: Force Gurkha facelift with 140 BHP coming up. EDIT : Now launched @ Rs. 12.99 lakh

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Originally Posted by T2luvroads View Post
Thanks a lot for your detaling, gone through threads & YouTube and got myself clarified. Now the question is does Gurkha comes ready with a lock or we need to arrange it after sales market?
The Gurkha comes with DiffLocks. Diff locks do not dissengage the front drive line.
Thats the job of the Free Wheeling Hubs.

So the Gurkha is ready to be fitted with Free Wheeling Hubs which are easily available in the market and are a direct bolt on affair.
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Old 11th March 2019, 10:33   #113
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Default Re: Force Gurkha facelift with 140 BHP coming up. EDIT : Now launched @ Rs. 12.99 lakh

Quote:
Originally Posted by navpreet318 View Post
The Gurkha comes with DiffLocks. Diff locks do not dissengage the front drive line.
Thats the job of the Free Wheeling Hubs.

So the Gurkha is ready to be fitted with Free Wheeling Hubs which are easily available in the market and are a direct bolt on affair.
It might be good to have some definite clarification / photos here... the older Force 4x4's (pickups, Judo, etc) had the axle shaft coming right through the brake disc/hub on splines and held directly to it with a central nut, a very different setup from M&M / Tata vehicles, which had six-screw "caps" (if not the lockouts) as a separate, removable piece. I don't know that this older system has been retained on the new Gurkha, but if so I don't see how lockout hubs could be fitted.

-Eric
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Old 11th March 2019, 12:19   #114
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Default Re: Force Gurkha facelift with 140 BHP coming up. EDIT : Now launched @ Rs. 12.99 lakh

Quote:
Originally Posted by ringoism View Post
I don't know that this older system has been retained on the new Gurkha, but if so I don't see how lockout hubs could be fitted.

-Eric
There you go, another reason to actually see the vehicle, so that you can get a proper gripe list going, instead of hypothetical ones.

Cheers
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Old 11th March 2019, 12:47   #115
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Default Re: Force Gurkha facelift with 140 BHP coming up. EDIT : Now launched @ Rs. 12.99 lakh

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Originally Posted by gthang View Post
There you go, another reason to actually see the vehicle, so that you can get a proper gripe list going, instead of hypothetical ones. Cheers
Needn't be construed in that way, lockout hubs are actually a pain, and the only reason many people (self included) use them is that the front-drive components in 4x4's often get loose and vibratory with age, and lockouts alleviate that, not an issue on a new car. They don't seem to do an awful lot for FE and are weaker, and if required at all, I'd prefer automatic ones assuming they worked properly. If the Extreme lacks them it's no real loss.

I have liked all the Gurkhas to date; Assuming this one has low-end torque (review claims it does), my only "gripe" here (I think this was clear) was about market positioning. I'd probably love driving an Extreme myself - apart from the bigger, newer powerplant it's actually very similar to our current ride - If ONLY I could afford it (and if it had five doors)!!!

-Eric

Last edited by ringoism : 11th March 2019 at 12:49.
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Old 11th March 2019, 16:26   #116
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Default Re: Force Gurkha facelift with 140 BHP coming up. EDIT : Now launched @ Rs. 12.99 lakh

https://evoindia.com/test-drive-revi...ha-xtreme-4x4/


Sorry didn't take any pictures of the point.


I searched a few reviews till I found out this one which has pictures of the same. Please go through it.
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Old 11th March 2019, 18:03   #117
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Default Re: Force Gurkha facelift with 140 BHP coming up. EDIT : Now launched @ Rs. 12.99 lakh

Interestingly while I'm all decked up and waiting for a TD of the Xtreme, its still not available in Bhubaneswar, Odisha. I have decided on buying it but waiting to check out only the highway manners. Plan to convert the co-passenger seat to a tumble down one and a rear front facing bench/ captain seats. Also would be checking out the Mahindra/ Gypsy FWHs on the Gurkha. Strange but true, when I inquired with Force sales guy, he said the dealer here already has a Xplorer demo so not interested to get a Xtreme before selling it.
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Old 19th March 2019, 19:52   #118
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Default Re: Force Gurkha facelift with 140 BHP coming up. EDIT : Now launched @ Rs. 12.99 lakh

Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselhead View Post
Interestingly while I'm all decked up and waiting for a TD of the Xtreme, its still not available in Bhubaneswar, Odisha. I have decided on buying it but waiting to check out only the highway manners. Plan to convert the co-passenger seat to a tumble down one and a rear front facing bench/ captain seats. Also would be checking out the Mahindra/ Gypsy FWHs on the Gurkha. Strange but true, when I inquired with Force sales guy, he said the dealer here already has a Xplorer demo so not interested to get a Xtreme before selling it.
Absolutely true with USG Motors here at Kolkata, They are trying to push me demo for Xplorer.
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Old 19th March 2019, 20:30   #119
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Default Re: Force Gurkha facelift with 140 BHP coming up. EDIT : Now launched @ Rs. 12.99 lakh

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Originally Posted by navpreet318 View Post
Have you even test driven one? I was one of the biggest naysayers for the gurkha. You can read it all in the tow-mator style grill gurkha review! And I faced a lot of ire from gurkha lovers pan India.

But I have extensively test driven the gurkha not once but now twice! Just so that I can clear my mind over it that my initial liking was not just because of the new engine.

Nope. It's really good! Low end torque is right there! Having suffered a lot with a 2L and 3L safari of the yesteryears I almost always check for the low end torque.

Yep. Numbers are indeed justified.

Now about the live axle. What about it? It's got decent behaviour on road. Much better than the two-mater I test drove a few years back. Yes it rolls. Doesn't every old SUV including pajeros and Montero's do it.

I'm a bit surprised at the comments here. You want gold standard DI engines of the yesteryears and then qoute driving the old scorpio at 150 on expressways and then disapprove of a live axle SUV going at 120. Indeed very surprising. And very convenient. The biggest one being creating post after post hypothetically without even a single TD of the xtreme.

The price is definitely on the higher side for what is offered inside the car and that is the biggest detrimental fact. But for all the offroaders complaining of the IFS in the Thar should now have been rejoicing about this Gurkha! Yes priced higher than what most of us would like to spend on one. That is the only downer.

Not the low end torque. Not the handling. Not the suspension. And not the engine. Which by the way is a new one and not the tractor 2.6 which truly was a downer in every which way.
I had test driven the old Gurkha way back. Then sat on a Xplorer model. As a offroader that's awesome but when I had tried that on highway the experience was very sad against my own Bolero SLX Di. I would not even think of one if I would have 4x4 on my Bolero. I'm very much imppresed on your report here. Waiting for TD one Xtreme as soon as it gets available in Kolkata. The price on road here would be nearing to 15L that's a big concern wheather will be a wise decision or not.
Mostly I would use this vehicle for long rides on highways before reaching a 4x4 required destination. So now studding all the posts repeatedly to justify my greed over Gurkha Xtreme.
Last but not the least thanks again for building some confidence within me

Last edited by T2luvroads : 19th March 2019 at 20:32. Reason: Spelling mistake
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Old 11th April 2019, 12:48   #120
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Default Re: Force Gurkha facelift with 140 BHP coming up. EDIT : Now launched @ Rs. 12.99 lakh

ABS Equipped models will be available now, approximately Rs 30,000 expensive.
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