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Old 20th March 2018, 12:08   #31
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Re: 2018 Toyota Land Cruiser Prado launched at Rs. 92.60 lakh

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Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
Now to answer the question why they can't do a 2.8 Prado since its made in Japan for other markets.

The 2.8 Prado made in Japan comes with Euro 6 emissions hardware which consists of DPF, Selective Catalyst Reduction (SCR) which is diesel exhaust fluid, additional diesel fuel injector and related paraphernalia. AFAIK they don't make a 2.8 without DPF & SCR, and they will not import an Euro 6 one into India since TKM is yet to brace the Bharat 6 norms and provide service and support to Bharat 6 vehicles.
Thanks for the informative post

But, tell me if Mercedes can start selling a modern and much complicated Euro 6 engine on an S Class and get some publicity, what stopped Toyota from getting this engine in Euro 6 version? Also, considering the fact that sooner or later everything has to move to Euro 6, they could have used this as a launch vehicle and probably built the infrastructure at Dealership for other vehicles.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...s-s-class.html
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Old 20th March 2018, 12:21   #32
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Re: 2018 Toyota Land Cruiser Prado launched at Rs. 92.60 lakh

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Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
Thanks for the informative post

But, tell me if Mercedes can start selling a modern and much complicated Euro 6 engine on an S Class and get some publicity, what stopped Toyota from getting this engine in Euro 6 version? Also, considering the fact that sooner or later everything has to move to Euro 6, they could have used this as a launch vehicle and probably built the infrastructure at Dealership for other vehicles.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...s-s-class.html
I think they are following their own tradition of being ultra conservative. Its not that a prospective Prado owner would worry about the additional increase in cost for the added hardware. Eventually all of them will need to comply to Euro/Bharat 6 in India.

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Originally Posted by starter View Post
I would not have to be worried about the fuel quality or the chances of an electronics failure due to dust that gets you stranded in the middle of nowhere.

Cheers,
Deepak
Both 3.0 and 2.8 sold here have same kind of electronics in it. Almost all systems are very similar. Toyota's Diesel advisory also recommends same quality fuel for both of them.
Name:  Diesel Advisory.png
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Apparently they have fixed a lot of reported injector related issues in the GD versus the KD.

Last edited by Sankar : 20th March 2018 at 12:34.
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Old 20th March 2018, 12:34   #33
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Re: 2018 Toyota Land Cruiser Prado launched at Rs. 92.60 lakh

As someone was pointing out that euro-VI fuel will come with injector problems because sulpher was used as lubricant for injectors and ultra-low sulpher fuels as euro-VI will bust diesel injectors in short while.
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Old 20th March 2018, 12:53   #34
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Re: 2018 Toyota Land Cruiser Prado launched at Rs. 92.60 lakh

Prado has proved its name in the world for its robustness and reliability. Being a Toyota I am not surprised with the price. Just look at the Corolla, Innova, Fortuner or the Camry. All of them are priced high and they sell well. When Jeep launched the Cherokee there was a lot of hue and cry regarding its price (which was similar to Prado) but I guess Toyota can be spared from this in the name of bullet-proof reliability that they provide!
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Old 20th March 2018, 12:54   #35
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Re: 2018 Toyota Land Cruiser Prado launched at Rs. 92.60 lakh

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Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
The 2.8 Prado made in Japan comes with Euro 6 emissions hardware which consists of DPF, Selective Catalyst Reduction (SCR) which is diesel exhaust fluid, additional diesel fuel injector and related paraphernalia. AFAIK they don't make a 2.8 without DPF & SCR, and they will not import an Euro 6 one into India since TKM is yet to brace the Bharat 6 norms and provide service and support to Bharat 6 vehicles.
The 2.8 with 6-Speed auto is available in the exact power/torque output as the 2.8 in the say australian prado. Wouldn't it make sense to use the 2.8 for the Fortuner than the old 3.0 from the Fortuner?

Mercedes has already launched BSVI compliant engines. Personally I think this excuse/reason by Toyota to do this is flimsy and shouldn't have been done.
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Old 20th March 2018, 13:09   #36
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Re: 2018 Toyota Land Cruiser Prado launched at Rs. 92.60 lakh

Land Cruiser Prado which is sold in all Toyota markets in the world (Except UK, Canada, Mexico and South Korea) is sold with either a 2.8/3.0 Ltr. diesel or a 2.7/3.5/4 Ltr. gas motor. In fact, the 2.8 Ltr. diesel engine that Toyota offers in some markets makes 177 BHP so there’s not much of a difference.

And these are the markets where Toyota sells approximately 13,000 units a year so they will not make an exception for India where Toyota sells 100 units a year if that. The engine being offered in India makes 410 NM of torque which is enough to hustle this vehicle so I don’t understand what the fuss is all about. Would you rather have the 4 Ltr. V-6 (this is gas motor that Toyota offers in some markets and for its close cousin the Toyota 4 Runner in North America) that although produces 270 bhp makes a meager 376 NM of torque.

As for the “antiquated” 5/6 speed transmission, it is a bulletproof unit and I would rather have that rather than a gimmicky 8/9 speed slushbox that forever keeps on hunting for the right cog.

This a “truck”; a ladder on chassis, true blue go anywhere luxo SUV that you would like to have when the Armageddon comes (other than its big brother Land Cruiser).

I agree that it is an underpowered drivetrain however India will get an upgrade when the rest of the world does (if Toyota does not discontinue it owing to low numbers by then).

It comes with KDSS that optimally adjusts front and rear stabilizers based on a set of interconnected hydraulic cylinders. This system is known to improve the on and off-road dynamics of such a heavy vehicle tremendously. Other that all the luxurious amenities that I wouldn’t go in details about, it has the real lockable differential I don’t think is offered on any other vehicle in India barring Thar or Gurkha (those being totally different market segments).

Yes I agree that in India, not one customer who spends upwards of a crore of the green ones (or whatever the colour is) is going to take it off the paved asphalt but a large majority of these trucks being sold across the world are taken off the beaten path and that’s where these trucks shine. I agree that a large number of these vehicles will never leave the tarmac but that is true for any luxo wagon, isn’t it?

Last but not the least I personally know of a lady veterinarian who lives a couple of hundred miles from where I am and her truck (not exactly this one but its cousin, the 4 Runner) has done one million kilometers without an engine overhaul.

I believe at this price point the Lexus GX 470 would have made more sense (it is a rebadged LC Prado); however, having seen Lexus pricing in India I doubt if Toyota would have been able to price it at less than 1.5 Cr. and at that price it wouldn’t find any customers (and that hideous grill does not help either).

I concede the point that at this price point that are many German/British SUV’s that would make more sense from street cred perspective however for select few who are aware of the true capability of this vehicle and put more emphasis on long-term worry-free ownership/reliability this would be the one to bring home. Or maybe as someone earlier said in this thread that it is time to pull the plug on this one for good.
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Old 20th March 2018, 13:13   #37
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Re: 2018 Toyota Land Cruiser Prado launched at Rs. 92.60 lakh

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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
The 2.8 with 6-Speed auto is available in the exact power/torque output as the 2.8 in the say australian prado. Wouldn't it make sense to use the 2.8 for the Fortuner than the old 3.0 from the Fortuner?
2.8 in Prado offers lower NVH due to the addition of a balancer shaft which Fortuner doesn't have. Probably Toyota does not approve of importing an engineless Prado and fitting a Fortuner spec 2.8 in it in India.
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Old 20th March 2018, 13:42   #38
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Re: 2018 Toyota Land Cruiser Prado launched at Rs. 92.60 lakh

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Originally Posted by Vikram Arya View Post
Land Cruiser Prado which is sold in all Toyota markets in the world (Except UK, Canada, Mexico and South Korea) is sold with either a 2.8/3.0 Ltr. diesel or a 2.7/3.5/4 Ltr. gas motor. In fact, the 2.8 Ltr. diesel engine that Toyota offers in some markets makes 177 BHP so there’s not much of a difference.
Yes, but the new engine is comparatively quieter and more importantly mated to a Six Speed Gearbox instead of Five on the 3,0 Ltr.

Quote:
I believe at this price point the Lexus GX 470 would have made more sense (it is a rebadged LC Prado); however, having seen Lexus pricing in India I doubt if Toyota would have been able to price it at less than 1.5 Cr.
GX470 appears very dated, they had the last change in 2014, though have recently added some exterior skirts etc & termed as Sports but that's about it. From my personal experience, even though there is an 8 cylinder Petrol but due to the old 5-speed gearbox, this truck feels massively underpowered. To give you an idea, it will struggle to maintain 110 on Stoney Trail at most of the inclined portions:

Quote:
however for select few who are aware of the true capability of this vehicle and put more emphasis on long-term worry-free ownership/reliability this would be the one to bring home.
Agree, even though Prado as a vehicle drives far better than Fortuner or Endeavour and it will be wrong to compare both, Toyota has virtually killed the demand of this facelifted model due to that old engine in my opinion. There are about 200 odd customers for LC in a Year so I see no reasons for LC Prado to sell equal or more numbers considering that it's equally comfortable and competent as LC and is about 50 % cheaper. Given the change in preference of buyers due to NGT ban etc, a 6 cylinder petrol could have also been given as an option.

Quote:
maybe as someone earlier said in this thread that it is time to pull the plug on this one for good.
I think, someone in Toyota Banglore still has some emotional connection with this as otherwise, I cannot think of any reasons for selling this truck here.

Last edited by Turbanator : 20th March 2018 at 14:01.
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Old 20th March 2018, 13:57   #39
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Re: 2018 Toyota Land Cruiser Prado launched at Rs. 92.60 lakh

I've seen more Lambos than LCs on the roads here in Hyderabad. After this pricing, it's bound to get even more extinct.
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Old 20th March 2018, 15:15   #40
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Re: 2018 Toyota Land Cruiser Prado launched at Rs. 92.60 lakh

Worldwide Prado is a ₹25-₹30 lakh car after converting local currency into rupees. In India, they are positioned such so that maybe Toyota wants to shame the GoI tax structure and they just imported a normal run-of-mill suv sold around the world and positioned it in India as a crore worth car so that those who look at its price would laugh at Indian policy makers. It is their way of getting even perhaps.
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Old 20th March 2018, 15:31   #41
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Re: 2018 Toyota Land Cruiser Prado launched at Rs. 92.60 lakh

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikram Arya View Post
The engine being offered in India makes 410 NM of torque which is enough to hustle this vehicle so I don’t understand what the fuss is all about.
The fuss is due to the fact that in isolation, the engine is good enough, however, when the market has the Fortuner at less than half the price with the same engine, it wont bite this one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikram Arya View Post
As for the “antiquated” 5/6 speed transmission, it is a bulletproof unit and I would rather have that rather than a gimmicky 8/9 speed slushbox that forever keeps on hunting for the right cog.
New age GBs from ZF are not at all gimmicky and are equally reliable too. For that matter, when was the last time you saw an modern AT car breakdown due to a GB failure in India?

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Originally Posted by Vikram Arya View Post
This a “truck”; a ladder on chassis, true blue go anywhere luxo SUV that you would like to have when the Armageddon comes (other than its big brother Land Cruiser).
Precisely what Toyota milks us on, Armageddon is NEVER coming and hence I dont see the need for this as well.

BTW, there are many such trucks today, priced far lower and do a similar job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikram Arya View Post
It comes with KDSS that optimally adjusts front and rear stabilizers based on a set of interconnected hydraulic cylinders. This system is known to improve the on and off-road dynamics of such a heavy vehicle tremendously.
To continue flogging the antiquated chassis, they had to get something which does something and sounds fancy too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikram Arya View Post
Other that all the luxurious amenities that I wouldn’t go in details about, it has the real lockable differential I don’t think is offered on any other vehicle in India barring Thar or Gurkha (those being totally different market segments).
Err, the Ford Endeavour....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikram Arya View Post
Yes I agree that in India, not one customer who spends upwards of a crore of the green ones (or whatever the colour is) is going to take it off the paved asphalt but a large majority of these trucks being sold across the world are taken off the beaten path and that’s where these trucks shine.
Which is why is a dead horse here. Period.

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Originally Posted by Vikram Arya View Post
Last but not the least I personally know of a lady veterinarian who lives a couple of hundred miles from where I am and her truck (not exactly this one but its cousin, the 4 Runner) has done one million kilometers without an engine overhaul.
Which is why the Fortuner and the Innova sell like hot cakes, but not the Prado at this price point.

All this "overlanding" stuff in India is highly overrated and 99% of us go to places which are nowhere as remote as the bush in Australia/Africa or the mountains in South America, and a modern 4WD SUV like the Endeavour or the Fortuner can easily handle all we throw at it and more reliably.
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Old 20th March 2018, 16:48   #42
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Re: 2018 Toyota Land Cruiser Prado launched at Rs. 92.60 lakh

I can probably import a year old Prado at much lower price . A petrol 2.7 version in Dubai retails for about 25lacs . A used one should retail for about 20 lacs and If I calculate 125% duty levied on used car, I should be able to buy 2 Prado at 1Cr! Even better I can Import a new Prado and buy a new Endeavour/Fortuner locally.

Another observation is, Endeavour competes against Prado in Australian market, albeit few thousand cheaper. In India the the Prado costs almost 2.5 times that of Endeavour!

Last edited by PrideRed : 20th March 2018 at 16:50.
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Old 20th March 2018, 18:52   #43
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Re: 2018 Toyota Land Cruiser Prado launched at Rs. 92.60 lakh

The 2018 Prado sold in the Middle East comes in two engine sizes – 2.7L V4 & 4.0 L V6 - both Petrol.

2.7 L engine 3 Door has only one trim GXR, 2.7L 5 Door has 3 trims - EXR, GXR & VXR and the 4.0L one has four different trims – EXR, GXR, VXR & Limited.


2018 Toyota Land Cruiser Prado launched at Rs. 92.60 lakh-untitled.jpg

2018 Toyota Land Cruiser Prado launched at Rs. 92.60 lakh-untitled1.jpg

4.0 L V6 engine generates a decent 271 hp, however, the 2.7 V4 looks underpowered.
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Old 20th March 2018, 18:58   #44
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Re: 2018 Toyota Land Cruiser Prado launched at Rs. 92.60 lakh

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Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
I think, someone in Toyota Banglore still has some emotional connection with this as otherwise, I cannot think of any reasons for selling this truck here.
Not at all, it is hard thought business decision based on that golden rule of "Positioning".

By positioning the Prado at a Crore and equipping it with the same engine and tranny as the Fortuner, they are able to price the Fortuner at 35 lac and make is sound like VFM.

Need proof? See how many of us are advocating buying the Fortuner over the Prado at is current price without taking the competition into consideration....!!!

Now that's called smart business...!!!
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Old 21st March 2018, 05:03   #45
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Re: 2018 Toyota Land Cruiser Prado launched at Rs. 92.60 lakh

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Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
Precisely what Toyota milks us on, Armageddon is NEVER coming and hence I dont see the need for this as well.
Not defending the pricing which is horrendous as I said earlier but if you havent noticed we actually live in Armageddon which is why reliability and service is the most important criteria when buying a car in India. The road infrastructure is poor (we have everything from very good roads to very bad roads), a lot of fine dust and then some, heat, poor quality of fuel and really bad traffic. It also does not help that the job of a mechanic is looked down upon. If you are a mechanic, you must be poor at study with barely any IQ so we don't really have too many good mechanics either. Consider everything and it is clear that most of the Indian consumers are okay being milked when purchasing a car than being milked for the entire lifetime of a car.

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Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
To continue flogging the antiquated chassis, they had to get something which does something and sounds fancy too.
How is it antiquated given it does what it is supposed to better than anyone else? As for KDSS sounding fancy, irrespective it works. More dope here
https://www.4x4australia.com.au/revi...rado-kdss-test
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