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Old 23rd January 2018, 22:48   #1
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Default Why I think BS6 / BSVI diesel won't harm BS4 / BSIV engines

Guys,
Here is my 2 cents on the topic.

In general Sulphur isn't a lubricant. However it is the process of generating ultra low sulphur diesel (hydro processing) which causes the removal of the polar components resulting in loss of lubricating properties. This results in excessive wear and damage of the fuel injection system especially the fuel pump. This is evident for any diesel having sulphur content < 500 ppm.

Hence additives are being added to maintain the lubricity and is tested via the HFRR (High Frequency Reciprocating Rig) method. Looking into the fuel composition of BS2 - BS6 , its evident that the lubricity in India is maintained @ max 460 microns. Please refer the below link for details

https://www.transportpolicy.net/stan...-and-gasoline/

Interestingly it is the European specification (EN 590) which also maintain the same lubricity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EN_590

So what it translates to, BS4 engines will be less polluting using BS6 fuel as compared to BS4 fuel without damaging the components. Does it reduce soot, no! For that we need to increase rail pressure to around 2900 bar, increase the no. injections per cycle, use SCR and DPF. All these will be available in BS6 engines.

Hope it clarifies doubts in our minds.

Last edited by pious_devil : 23rd January 2018 at 22:58.
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Old 25th January 2018, 08:39   #2
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Default Re: BS-VI emission norms coming in April 2020!

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Originally Posted by pious_devil View Post
Guys,
Here is my 2 cents on the topic.

Hope it clarifies doubts in our minds.
Thank you for the detailed write up. So from what I understand running a BS-IV vehicle on BS-VI fuel will not cause any damage to the BS-IV engine, Correct?
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Old 25th January 2018, 09:59   #3
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Default Re: BS-VI emission norms coming in April 2020!

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Thank you for the detailed write up. So from what I understand running a BS-IV vehicle on BS-VI fuel will not cause any damage to the BS-IV engine, Correct?
Yes 4x4addict. That's also my understanding from the available data.
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Old 25th January 2018, 14:46   #4
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Default Re: BS-VI emission norms coming in April 2020!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pious_devil View Post
Guys,
Here is my 2 cents on the topic.

In general Sulphur isn't a lubricant. However it is the process of generating ultra low sulphur diesel (hydro processing) which causes the removal of the polar components resulting in loss of lubricating properties. This results in excessive wear and damage of the fuel injection system especially the fuel pump. This is evident for any diesel having sulphur content < 500 ppm.

Hence additives are being added to maintain the lubricity and is tested via the HFRR (High Frequency Reciprocating Rig) method. Looking into the fuel composition of BS2 - BS6 , its evident that the lubricity in India is maintained @ max 460 microns. Please refer the below link for details

https://www.transportpolicy.net/stan...-and-gasoline/

<snip>

Hope it clarifies doubts in our minds.
Thank you so much for clarifying this, kind sir. Like you told me on the TUV thread, I am open to buying a (diesel) TUV once again, now that this stands clarified.

After going through the URL you provided, I latched on to the 'Lubricity' metric that's mentioned there. A perfunctory google search yields multiple results for companies worldwide that make Lubricity Additives that supplement the reduced sulfur content in advanced-norm fuels in many countries. I am pretty sure our Oil Marketing Companies must be eyeing such additives...if not, our diesel-based economy would (literally) grind to a halt! I like to think that our OMCs aren't that careless.
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Old 21st March 2018, 07:57   #5
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Default re: Why I think BS6 / BSVI diesel won't harm BS4 / BSIV engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by pious_devil View Post
Here is my 2 cents on the topic.
Thanks for sharing man! There is a lot of confusion on the topic, hence moving your extremely valuable post into a new thread.
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Old 22nd March 2018, 09:20   #6
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Default re: Why I think BS6 / BSVI diesel won't harm BS4 / BSIV engines

This is certainly a good news for users out of NCT at the moment because of launch of BS VI fuel in Delhi in a week from now.

Will there be any impact on mixing of BS VI and BS IV fuels? because people do outstation as well as several of us fill @ Delhi (will be BS VI from 1 April) as well as @ Gurgaon (will continue with BS IV fuel).

One needs to be disciplined with fuel stations for next couple of months.
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Old 22nd March 2018, 22:59   #7
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No issues as long as you are having BS4 engine. Untill BS4 fuel was standardized across India we have been mixing BS3 and BS4 fuel during the long road trips.Mixing would be an issue if you have BS6 engine, as DPF would struggle with BS4 diesel during regeneration process, but that's not happening before April 2020.

Last edited by pious_devil : 22nd March 2018 at 23:01.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 11:58   #8
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Default re: Why I think BS6 / BSVI diesel won't harm BS4 / BSIV engines

Here is another important article that calls out a new Exhaust Technology that could save the Diesel Engine:

New Exhaust Technology Could Save the Diesel Engine - URL

Quote:
It’s called ACCT (ammonia creation and conversion technology) and it’s currently being developed by a team of specialists at the Loughborough University in Britain. This new system uses ammonia to “literally to rip NOx apart”, which leaves only nitrogen and water behind. According to the Loughborough team, ACCT has been able to clean 98-percent of NOx in diesel emissions and it’s done so while not even being tuned for a specific engine. The team tested the system on a Skoda taxi and saw a 98-percent reduction in NOx and claims that, if tuned properly, they could create a “virtually zero-emission” diesel engine.
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Old 7th July 2018, 19:49   #9
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Default re: Why I think BS6 / BSVI diesel won't harm BS4 / BSIV engines

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Originally Posted by pious_devil View Post
Mixing would be an issue if you have BS6 engine, as DPF would struggle with BS4 diesel during regeneration process, but that's not happening before April 2020.
So does this mean BS4 diesel engine vehicles too will have to be fitted with a DPF when they start using BS6 fuel?

Because as per my understanding it's the DPF that's present in the BS6 vehicles which will be responsible for filtering out diesel particulates resulting in a cleaner emission. Sorry, I'm still confused in this subject. Pls correct me if I'm wrong!

Last edited by Flyer : 7th July 2018 at 19:59.
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Old 18th July 2018, 21:50   #10
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Default re: Why I think BS6 / BSVI diesel won't harm BS4 / BSIV engines

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Originally Posted by Flyer View Post
So does this mean BS4 diesel engine vehicles too will have to be fitted with a DPF when they start using BS6 fuel?

Because as per my understanding it's the DPF that's present in the BS6 vehicles which will be responsible for filtering out diesel particulates resulting in a cleaner emission. Sorry, I'm still confused in this subject. Pls correct me if I'm wrong!
No Flyer, no necessarily. I guess you are mixing between BS6 emission compliance and BS6 fuel. If it becomes mandatory to have all old and new vehicles to be BS6 emission compliant then BS4 engines not only need to be retrofitted with DPF but also SCR and new ECU with updated software. But that's highly unlikely.
BS4 compliant engines will still run better with BS6 fuel without the DPF but more polluting than the BS6 compliant engines.
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Old 2nd March 2019, 16:09   #11
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Default re: Why I think BS6 / BSVI diesel won't harm BS4 / BSIV engines

Now that Delhi has almost been running BS6 fuels for a year now, can our friends from Delhi share their experience on how their BS4 engines (both petrol & diesel) are performing / impacted with BS6 fuel ?

Last edited by SR-71 : 2nd March 2019 at 16:11.
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Old 2nd March 2019, 18:23   #12
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Default re: Why I think BS6 / BSVI diesel won't harm BS4 / BSIV engines

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Originally Posted by SR-71 View Post
Now that Delhi has almost been running BS6 fuels for a year now, can our friends from Delhi share their experience on how their BS4 engines (both petrol & diesel) are performing / impacted with BS6 fuel ?
Frankly, there's not much of a difference between the two. I regularly fill BS6 in Delhi and sometimes even BS4 from NCR.

There's no difference in engine performance or mileage.
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Old 2nd March 2019, 23:09   #13
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Default re: Why I think BS6 / BSVI diesel won't harm BS4 / BSIV engines

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Frankly, there's not much of a difference between the two. I regularly fill BS6 in Delhi and sometimes even BS4 from NCR.

There's no difference in engine performance or mileage.
Good to hear that, is yours a petrol or diesel engine ? Feedback from more forum members will help prospective car buyers in the forum (including yours truly :-)) decide if its ok to take a plunge this year and what engine options to possibly go with..

Last edited by SR-71 : 2nd March 2019 at 23:10.
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Old 3rd March 2019, 00:06   #14
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Default re: Why I think BS6 / BSVI diesel won't harm BS4 / BSIV engines

I have registered Official Questions to Honda / Ford / Maruti about BS-VI fuel being used in vehicles within my family. All of them are BS-IV

All 3 manufacturer confirmed that their BS-IV engine/fuel system/exhaust won't have any adverse effects while running BS-VI fuel (petrol/diesel). They will continue to honour their warranty as applicable.
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Old 3rd March 2019, 08:43   #15
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Default re: Why I think BS6 / BSVI diesel won't harm BS4 / BSIV engines

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Good to hear that, is yours a petrol or diesel engine?
Mine is diesel 1.6L. To add to this there is no noticable difference in emissions too for a layman. Both BS4 & BS6 emit the same pungent fumes.
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