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Old 30th March 2018, 19:18   #46
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Default Re: Toyota & Suzuki to supply cars to each other in India

I had spotted a Suzuki Kizashi a couple of days back, and my o my, was I in love with those lines again.
That car was well ahead it's due time. It would have been a perfect game-upping model for Suzuki post 2014-15 till 2016-17. There was a dearth of eastern influence in that segment, with the crowd favourite Civic's demise, leaving the Corolla being the only worthy warrior to German onslaught.

I was inherently rooting for a re-developed Kizashi soon but now I guess a Suzuki branded Corolla is what we settle for.

Suzuki is going to be the ultimate winner in this deal in short to medium term. They could utilize the spare capacity of Toyota, and reach the hard to reach parts of India through their brilliant network providing the town/village roads with the premium sedans they always wanted, but had to settle for Scorpios and Tatas, due to poor service centres. Long term winner is Toyota, as it would enable it to better it's serviceability in rural markets, and win rural dealers upcoming line-up.

I guess Suzuki has mastered the mantra of capturing the market -> let others take the technical first mover advantage, I'll blow them with my costs & service model.

Last edited by sharktale : 30th March 2018 at 19:21.
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Old 30th March 2018, 20:53   #47
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Default Re: Toyota & Suzuki to supply cars to each other in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by jetsetgo08 View Post
Now, this reminds me of few questions. Can the 1.4 D4D from Toyota be used in the Ciaz, Brezza, Baleno ?
Quoting my own post. Read in a deccan chronicle article that states that the gasoline and hybrid gasoline engines would be shared among the badge engineered vehicles.

https://www.deccanchronicle.com/busi...-in-india.html

A snippet from the article -

Quote:
Suzuki will supply gasoline and mild-gasoline hybrid versions of its Baleno hatchback, along with the Vitara Brezza compact SUV to Toyota while the latter will produce gasoline and gasoline-hybrid Corolla sedans for Suzuki, the automakers said.
The above however doesn't state if there is a Brezza petrol in the works.

Last edited by jetsetgo08 : 30th March 2018 at 21:15.
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Old 31st March 2018, 11:29   #48
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Default Re: Toyota & Suzuki to supply cars to each other in India

Instead of both the brands being called an Uber or an Ola, I guess Toyota's Baleno and Brezza with Suzuki's Corolla is better! Changing times. Ofcourse, out goes all the brand value and halo(!) image of Toyota Quality.

But a plausible compromise would be to make a new sub brand for Toyota? I am just wondering. The Japs hardly make such radical decisions but they wouldn't compromise their badge easily.
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Old 31st March 2018, 11:59   #49
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Default Re: Toyota & Suzuki to supply cars to each other in India

I believe this partnership is of epic proportions in the Indian market scenario (borrowing GTO's words).

I think both parties have to gain much with this partnership. Some have opined that Toyota gets to gain much because of Maruti's stranglehold in the Baleno-brezza segment while some have questioned regarding the effect on famed Toyota reliability.

Of course Toyota's reliability is famed world over- this much is beyond doubt; but in the segments that Baleno and Brezza perform, Maruti is no slouch either. So for long as this does not just get limited to the cross branding excercise like Nissan and Renault had in India with their cars, I think Toyota and Maruti stand to gain equally with this partnership over the short term as well as the longer term. We customer? We have the chance we to get cars that are hybrids of both philosophies. Extreme value for money of Marutu as well as technical expertise and reliability of Toyota!
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Old 31st March 2018, 12:18   #50
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Default Toyota & Suzuki to supply cars to each other in India

This looks like another master stroke by Maruti. I guess Maruti would be interested in Toyota's hybrid technologies while Toyota would be looking at more sales. Maruti would have understood that in the coming times (5-7 years)the market would move towards electric and hybrid cars and through this deal it will still be able to maintain its numero uno position. Exciting times ahead.

Last edited by Waspune : 31st March 2018 at 12:20.
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Old 31st March 2018, 12:47   #51
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Default Re: Toyota & Suzuki to supply cars to each other in India

Toyota's SDL (service for linking vehicles and smartphones )will be compatible not only with Toyota vehicles, but also Suzuki bikes both old and new.

Now expect the same mobility solution compatibility in the upcoming Suzuki-Toyota cars too.

Toyota & Suzuki to supply cars to each other in India-01.jpg

Toyota & Suzuki to supply cars to each other in India-02.jpg



Source: Toyota Global

Last edited by volkman10 : 31st March 2018 at 12:50.
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Old 31st March 2018, 13:54   #52
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Default Re: Toyota & Suzuki to supply cars to each other in India

I hope this deal will be a big step in the adoption of hybrid vehicles in India. Really hoping that Suzuki starts deploying hybrid drivetrains on it cars (which are all mostly entry level and high volume ones). I really dont care what Toyota gets out of this If they can put their premium interiors into the cars they adopt from suzuki they might have some market.
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Old 31st March 2018, 14:53   #53
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Default Toyota & Suzuki to supply cars to each other in India

Toyota did not need to do this after all these years! I mean why do it now? They might as well have not done this at a point when there seems to be an inflection point towards hybrids and electric vehicles. It would just dilute what Toyota should have stood for! Not to say that he current cars such as the Etios or Liva are pinnacles of quality, but there was a perception at least with the Innova and fortuner.

Again not to say that Suzukis are not reliable but their longevity and over all finesse is below par.

Very disappointed though. Toyota should have done the right thing in India. Got their own products and if they wanted to do low cost then they could have done it under Daihatsu.

This really shows how tough the market is! One should actually applaud Hyundai for having steadily built a business from ground up that giants like Toyota , VW, GM could not.

Last edited by motorworks : 31st March 2018 at 14:55.
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Old 1st April 2018, 03:37   #54
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Default Re: Toyota & Suzuki to supply cars to each other in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
This is a partnership of epic proportion - one of the biggest I've ever seen in the Indian car scene.

Hat's off to Toyota first for pulling this off with Maruti (and not letting anyone else do it). Many years back, VW had also entered into a relationship with Suzuki primarily for the latter's dominance in India, but that didn't work out. In fact, it ended with a bitter divorce.

Over the longer term - I'm speaking in decades here - it wouldn't be surprising for Suzuki to become a subsidiary of Toyota. This move is Toyota thinking of its Indian presence in 2030, 2040 or 2050. As things stand today, the 'Big T' has a minuscule market-share in the 4th biggest car market of the world.

In the short-term however, the exchange of cars will benefit both in smaller ways. However, Suzuki will really, really benefit from access to Toyota's technology. Suzuki simply has nothing in the area of proper hybrids, electric vehicles, autonomous cars etc. This would be Suzuki's biggest motivation. Of course, it also helps tying up with a big brother like Toyota so that no one else troubles you anymore.
Fantastic post, GTO.

You've hit the nail on the head. I think this shows two very interesting insights:
Suzuki global was willing to risk its crown jewel, its hard fought India dominance in lieu of the hybrid / EV technology. Clear admission that they do not want to slowly play catch up but leapfrog ahead in this battle. Its as strong a vote on the future of EV, as anything else.

Secondly, in a way, the inclusion of the the Brezza (especially!) and (?) the Baleno, are a clear admission by Toyota that Maruti's engineers have delivered these fantastic "Designed and Made for Indians by Indians" products. I could be wrong, but if I recall right, these aren't global platforms brought to India, but cars developed significantly in India.

MSIL R&D has clearly come a long way from localization or designing decals for their "Alto celebration edition" and such-like stuff for which it used to be disparaged on the internet.

That being said, spare a thought for the Maruti sales team. They've maintained market leadership after relentless effort across decades, only to see THIS day? When they would have to compete with a much stronger / richer brand selling THEIR own products?! This isn't the "same family" like Renault-Nissan. This is truly a salesperson's worst nightmare!

Now, let's move forward. Outrage / congratulations are all fine. But let's wear our thinking caps for a moment. Indians didn't really warm up to this cross-badging strategy in Renault Nissan's case - we only bought the cheaper car (Duster over the Terrano, Micra over the Pulse) much more.

I am very curious to understand HOW they will make this arrangement operational? Let's talk tactics, not strategy! With social media being as ubiquitous as it is, and getting even stronger, even if they take the VW-Skoda route, common people will get to know. What would happen next? How would MSIL ensure market share erosion will be contained?
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Old 1st April 2018, 10:51   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
Fantastic post, GTO.


Now, let's move forward. Outrage / congratulations are all fine. But let's wear our thinking caps for a moment. Indians didn't really warm up to this cross-badging strategy in Renault Nissan's case - we only bought the cheaper car (Duster over the Terrano, Micra over the Pulse) much more.

I am very curious to understand HOW they will make this arrangement operational? Let's talk tactics, not strategy! With social media being as ubiquitous as it is, and getting even stronger, even if they take the VW-Skoda route, common people will get to know. What would happen next? How would MSIL ensure market share erosion will be contained?


Cross badging as such has not been done by a mass manufacturer in India as yet! So there lies an area of the unknown. I do not see Duster / Terrano, Micra / Pulse, Sunny / Scala as even a 1% exploitation!
The only cross badging that worked was Vento / Rapid to a certain extent as both cars still sell about 2k every month, with nearly equal contribution.
Else you will see people around who have actually never heard of a Scala or a pulse! That is how much Renault- Nissan pushed these cross badged cars! In fact I thought that it would be Hyundai and Kia who would really test the limits of cross badging with the kind of scale that Kia is coming up with.
So, all in all, the common man in India has been largely unaware of these cross badged cars since they were done by fringe players. When Toyota and Maruti do it, it must be a new case study in the making.
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Old 1st April 2018, 13:50   #56
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Default Re: Toyota & Suzuki to supply cars to each other in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
This is a partnership of epic proportion - one of the biggest I've ever seen in the Indian car scene .

Hat's off to Toyota first for pulling this off with Maruti (and not letting anyone else do it). Many years back, VW had also entered into a relationship with Suzuki primarily for the latter's dominance in India, but that didn't work out. In fact, it ended with a bitter divorce.

Over the longer term - I'm speaking in decades here - it wouldn't be surprising for Suzuki to become a subsidiary of Toyota. This move is Toyota thinking of its Indian presence in 2030, 2040 or 2050. As things stand today, the 'Big T' has a minuscule market-share in the 4th biggest car market of the world....
This partnership has nothing to do with vision or willingness of Toyota or Suzuki. This is an open secret in Japanese Automotive industry. The Japanese government does not want multiple OEMs in the game. The Nissan-Mitsubishi alliance is also a byproduct of the same. The Japanese government wants 3 or 4 big players in the market ala USA. Don't be surprised if Mazda joins this alliance. In Japan, Mazda already gets the Alto, Lapin and Wagon-R from Suzuki. So, we have Honda, Toyota- Suzuki and Nissan-Mitsubishi.
Toyota has nothing to gain from this alliance as they are not getting immediate access to Sales and Service outlet of Maruti. And let's face it Suzuki does not have any technology of note to offer to Toyota. The Japanese government is very clear in its view that they want their OEMs to look outward instead of squabbling for spoils in the diminishing japanese market.
So, in a nut shell, Daihatsu drops its plans to enter India, Suzuki drops plans to make premium vehicles in Innova territory (ridiculously overpriced cash cow of Big T) Toyota gets control of Suzuki and by extension of Maruti in long term provided they deliver on technology to Suzuki. Based on that above and rumours that I have heard, Maruti name might be dropped for India overall. The dealerships have already been rechristened to Arena and Because.
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Old 2nd April 2018, 13:36   #57
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Default Re: Toyota & Suzuki to supply cars to each other in India

Maruti Suzuki's Chairman clarifies - No tweaking of Vitara Brezza and Baleno by Toyota.

But would extend to Hybrids ( & Petrol Vitara Brezza ?) and would widen to normal vehicles and everything.

Quote:
collaboration would extend to hybrids, and would widen to normal vehicles and everything.

Quote:
Putting rest to rumours that the Brezza and Baleno cars will be tweaked by Toyota as a result of the cross badging, Maruti Suzuki chairman RC Bhargava on Monday told ET Now that: "I do not think we have said that we will ever tweak the cars because I am not sure what tweaking the cars actually means.
Quote:
volume of production of Toyota products, which we even sell, and our products, which Toyota will sell, will go up. In this industry, costs are very much related to volumes and economies of scale are very-very good. As we go along, there will be benefits to both companies in terms of costs.
Source:

Last edited by volkman10 : 2nd April 2018 at 13:42.
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Old 3rd April 2018, 00:36   #58
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Default Re: Toyota & Suzuki to supply cars to each other in India

Toyota has been picking up stakes in smaller players mainly to protect its turf against Chinese and also against Silicon valley IT giants..

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danroth.../#6dde8d50d3d8
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Old 7th April 2018, 11:49   #59
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Default Re: Toyota & Suzuki to supply cars to each other in India

IndianAutosBlog reports that,
Quote:
Maruti Suzuki and Toyota’s cross-badged models will have changes to their soft parts like the bumpers, grille, wheel and lights.
However,

Quote:
Sheet metal changes are unlikely.
Regarding the Corolla, the blog says:

Quote:
Maruti Suzuki will offer it in petrol and petrol-electric hybrid models. The petrol model will likely employ the 2ZR-FE 1.8-litre Dual VVT-i engine (140 PS/173 Nm). The hybrid model may use the 8ZR-FXE 1.8-litre petrol engine (99 PS/142 Nm) along with an electric motor that generates (72 PS/207 Nm).
Cartoq adds:

Quote:
The Maruti Corolla Altis is expected to be launched in 2020. Maruti has an ambition of selling around 10,000 units of the car. It remains unknown if Maruti plans to sell all 10,000 cars in the first year of operations or whether it is the total number of Corolla Altis’ it’ll buy from Toyota.

Last edited by dailydriver : 7th April 2018 at 11:57.
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Old 15th April 2018, 18:15   #60
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Default Re: Toyota & Suzuki to supply cars to each other in India

Some clarity on the Suzuki - Toyota models,

TKM Vice Chairman and Whole-Time Director Shekar Viswanathan :

Quote:
Toyota will get completely built up products from Suzuki.
Quote:
But some features will be changed
Quote:
collaboration is great for both companies.
Link

Last edited by volkman10 : 15th April 2018 at 18:17.
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