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Old 5th February 2020, 12:34   #241
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Default Re: Kia Grand Carnival MPV coming in 2020. Edit: Launched @ 24.95 lakhs

This is the standard size for a "minivan" in the USA and Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Fiat Chrysler all have equivalent models. Kia calls is Sedona there.

Honda is generally the leader (I have not checked lately) with their Odyssey. I owned an Odyssey in the US between 2004 and 2007 and it was the best family vehicle to ferry kids back and forth to playschool and weekend classes. Sliding doors make it so easy to lift babies in and out and strap them into child seats.

Any of these players could have brought their minivans to India in the last 15 years. But they did not - due to lethargy and not paying attention to India as growth market.

https://automobiles.honda.com/odyssey
https://www.toyota.com/sienna/
https://www.chrysler.com/pacifica.html
https://www.kia.com/us/en/sedona


Kudos to Kia for identifying the niche and acting on it so quickly to bring their minivan here. The others can wake up at least now, with the government allowing CBU imports without homologation up to 2500 units per year.

Last edited by 84.monsoon : 5th February 2020 at 12:37.
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Old 5th February 2020, 12:47   #242
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Default Re: Kia Grand Carnival MPV coming in 2020. Edit: Launched @ 24.95 lakhs

Just got call from Kia, on confirming our delivery date for this month only. We confirmed same, including model i.e Limo and color i.e Silver.
Limo is 5l expensive than prestige, but remembering my 2010 days when we payed 2.5l extra on Vx over Gx Innova, and still cherishing every day, covered with same analogy as well.

The extra 1ft of Carnival, is really to my family advantage in terms the difference it is making interior sitting space and boot.

Last edited by abhi1881 : 5th February 2020 at 12:49.
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Old 5th February 2020, 12:51   #243
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Default Re: Kia Grand Carnival MPV coming in 2020. Edit: Launched @ 24.95 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Now many of them have an option! Carnival has filled a big void in the market.
Yes, the void has been certainly filled and in a way its going to act like a leash for Toyota to not keep on increasing the price.

Quote:
Remains to be seen how many can endure driving such a huge vehicle in our traffic though!
To add to this tension, the GC has not been adapted to suit our road conditions. Atleast on paper it looks very less for what is supposed to carry around 7-9 people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelguy View Post
Carnival with those dimensions, seating configurations, and features actually goes against Toyota's Vellfire but not the Innova Crysta.
Our market is such that the Compass/Harrier get compared to the Creta/Seltos so the Carnival will also in some way get compared to the Innova as there is no other MPV in that price range.

Last edited by OSH : 5th February 2020 at 13:01.
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Old 5th February 2020, 13:10   #244
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Default Re: Kia Grand Carnival MPV coming in 2020. Edit: Launched @ 24.95 lakhs

More than 3,500 bookings have been received for Kia Motors' Carnival since it opened in January.

But expect some cancellations as the market expected a bit lower pricing.

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Old 5th February 2020, 13:41   #245
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Default Re: Kia Grand Carnival MPV coming in 2020. Edit: Launched @ 24.95 lakhs

As per my understanding of the Indian Automotive scene and assumption along with a few conversations I had with my family & friends I have a few things to say about this topic and the pricing of Carnival.
  • The Carnival was never supposed to take on the Innova Crysta, It was from the beginning marketed as a premium offering.
  • There was a huge gap after Innova Crysta for a potential comfortable 7-8 Seater in the market. Yes! You did had the UVs there but then the last row of seats weren't as comfortable nor the middle was too comfortable or satisfying. This is where Carnival kicks in.
  • In terms of Performance as well, the Carnival would prove out to be the superior one producing 200 HP and 440 NM Torque, compared to Innova's 150 HP & 340 NM Torque.
  • If you see the on-road prices and ex-showroom prices, Kia has rather priced the Carnival smartly, where the Innova ends with it's portfolio in term of it's pricing, that's where the Carnival begins for e.g the Innova Touring Sport is 30 Lakhs On-Road Pune, whereas the Carnival Premium 7 Seat is 30 Lakhs on-road Pune. Now, for a couple of Lakhs more you can get the Carnival Prestige AT with almost the same equipment as Innova top-end. Infact, Carnival would be better equipped which makes a lot of sense both in terms of practicality and value for money.
  • There was always a potential market beyond Innova, which a lot of manufacturers didn't see. The Innova owners gradually would want to upgrade to a better product, infact even Toyota figured that out and improved the Crysta by leaps and bounds when compared to the older generation hence people didn't felt it be a bad deal or they're buying the same car again. Now, what about the existing Crysta owners if they want to upgrade? The Carnival has come up to be an extremely interesting product. Morever, The Crysta has already got the Cabbie image which Carnival I feel won't achieve because of it's length and higher rentals it would command.
  • Yes! The top end Limousine variant is expensive but if you look at the Prestige variant, it's loaded to the gills and I feel rather than cancellation of bookings, the same will change for this variant.
  • Another thing, I have understood with the launch of Seltos, Hector etc. is Indians to be honest doesn't care about Value for money in this range rather they want the worth of their money in terms of equipment & Luxury which Kia has understood and has developed the Carnival keeping the same in mind.
  • A couple of my extended family members have already showed interest in the Carnival owing to it's sheer size and that 9 Seater configuration, Joint families love travelling together. Infact, from the previous generation Innova in terms of size & luxury they felt Kia felt more worth it's money in the range of 30 Lakhs rather than spending 25 on Crysta as at the end they felt they would still be driving an Innova which they don't want but had no alternative. In terms of brand value too thanks to the Seltos, they felt Kia to be a much more superior brand than Toyota as the latter is associated with cabs (Etios Twins & Innova) whereas Kia has a niche. Moreover, being a part of Hyundai that inspires a lot of confidence. Infact, I have heard my friends and family positioning Kia as the superior brand of Hyundai for premium segments.

Hence, I feel Kia already has a winner in hands. The sheer size and the overall feel of the vehicle a lot of those bookings should convert into purchase. IMO, Yes! The Limousine could have been cheaper but I will not call the Carnival overpriced and feel it will definitely do well in the market and I'm glad the days of Innova being the Ultimate 7 Seater is over. Though I just hope Carnival turns out to be as reliable as Innova if not more.
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Old 5th February 2020, 14:03   #246
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Default Re: Kia Grand Carnival MPV coming in 2020. Edit: Launched @ 24.95 lakhs

If we have come to accept premium sedans & cramped cars like the C-Class being sold for 40 - 45 lakhs, I think we should accept premium vans too.

IMHO, there is a reasonable market for this MPV. I know of many rich dudes who can easily spend 10 - 20 lakhs over the Innova Crysta for a practical 7-seater, but they still bought the Toyota as there was no other option. The number of garages I know with an Innova parked alongside an S-Class or Jaguar is insane.

Seems to be a proper luxury MPV for those who aren't price sensitive.
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Old 5th February 2020, 14:06   #247
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Default Re: Kia Grand Carnival MPV coming in 2020. Edit: Launched @ 24.95 lakhs

As a car(or a Van) i think pricing is fantastic. Base version Carnival will cost about 8lac more than base Innova Auto. For 8L you get more powerful motor, bigger car(more seats), few additional features and probably better looking interiors.
The premium taxi market actually would love the 9 seater variants and I wouldn't be surprised if Carnival sell in good numbers.
To me the biggest problem however is with looks, Carnival looks like a Van from all angles and Innova , though not an SUV, is higher up the ground is a departure from vanish looks. The latter will also have better GC. With current pricing, Carnival is now in Endeavour/Fortuner territory- We love SUV Barring the comfortable back seats, Endeavour will slaughter Carnival in every other department! Majority of folks will stay away from this car for self driving and those who love the comfort and have S/7 series parked in the garage, will not give a second look before buying Carnival.

Last edited by PrideRed : 5th February 2020 at 14:08.
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Old 5th February 2020, 14:11   #248
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Default Re: Kia Grand Carnival MPV coming in 2020. Edit: Launched @ 24.95 lakhs

If I were to pick one the 8 seater Premium version @ ₹25.15L is what was expected. Prices are as expected. Not high or low just right, remember this is KIA and not MG.
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Old 5th February 2020, 14:20   #249
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Default Re: Kia Grand Carnival MPV coming in 2020. Edit: Launched @ 24.95 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by 84.monsoon View Post
This is the standard size for a "minivan" in the USA and Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Fiat Chrysler all have equivalent models. Kia calls is Sedona there.

Honda is generally the leader (I have not checked lately) with their Odyssey. I owned an Odyssey in the US between 2004 and 2007 and it was the best family vehicle to ferry kids back and forth to playschool and weekend classes. Sliding doors make it so easy to lift babies in and out and strap them into child seats.
Honda probably didn't bring it here because they didn't have any diesel variant. US is gasoline-only nation. Very few pick-up trucks come in diesels. Even Honda's Ridgeline pick-up truck is gasoline only. So are the Odyssey and Pilot. India, on the other hand, is diesel-only for SUVs/MUVs.

I have a strong feeling Carnival will trump Innova big time. Higher-end Innova buyers will migrate to Kia , leaving Innovas mostly to cabs and bureaucrats while their political masters with their unlimited budget will shift to Kia. Even if this doesn't happen, it will keep Innova prices in check, from galloping away like they have been doing so far. As for size, it is relative. There are some who find Innova too big and opt for Ertiga.
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Old 5th February 2020, 14:27   #250
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Default Re: Kia Grand Carnival MPV coming in 2020. Edit: Launched @ 24.95 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuHasstMich View Post
While everyone keeps mentioning the "size" of the vehicle and talking about constraints for parking and mall ramps etc, however a quick comparison, the Carnival is very close to the Mercedes E-Class in length. Are any current owners of E-Class facing any such issues?
The E class is 4988. The Carnival is several inches longer. The point is, IMHO, an E Class will never travel (well almost) fully loaded with all passengers, to places where an Innova or an MPV would, with full luggage. That is where even my concern is. What's the GVW clearance? For example, Bangalore speed breakers could make a see-saw of a Carnival, perhaps?
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Old 5th February 2020, 14:53   #251
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Default Re: Kia Grand Carnival MPV coming in 2020. Edit: Launched @ 24.95 lakhs

I expected the base version to start from 22 L, IMHO prices are 10-15% more than VFM pricing. The target customers may not worry about this 15%,so KIA has got it correct with the pricing.

While KIA had a very good Start in India, the durability of both Seltos and Carnival is yet to be proven - hope they will not disappoint us.
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Old 5th February 2020, 15:27   #252
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Default Re: Kia Grand Carnival MPV coming in 2020. Edit: Launched @ 24.95 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by wheeledsoul View Post
If Carnival is "manufactured" in India (AP) then pricing the 2.2L diesel within a price range of 25L - 35L would be a coup. Offer the basic variant with mandatory safety features including 2 airbags and the Innova is already running for cover.

The 3.3L petrol would be a no go for sure, I wonder if they would launch it.

P.S: The pricing is similar in Australia, where it is not manufactured.
The prices, as I had hoped and guessed, way back then. I am eagerly waiting for the self drive companies to get one (at least), a long road journey with friends/family is due.

Last edited by wheeledsoul : 5th February 2020 at 15:29. Reason: Correction
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Old 5th February 2020, 15:43   #253
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Default Re: Kia Grand Carnival MPV coming in 2020. Edit: Launched @ 24.95 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnS_12 View Post
Kia Carnival variant-wise prices (ex-showroom, India)

Premium (7-seater): Rs 24.95 lakh
Premium (8-seater): Rs 25.15 lakh
Prestige (7-seater): Rs 28.95 lakh
Prestige (9-seater): Rs 29.95 lakh
Limousine (7-seater): Rs 33.95 lakh
This is exactly the pricing I was anticipating and in my view there will be plenty of takers for it. If a drab looking Fortuner can command 40+ so should a Limo version of this very premium MPV.

1. Limo pricing: They are rightly milking the top end variant with a sizeable premium over Prestige. Think Bollywood, HNIs / UHNIs / business owners who are not going to blink at a few extra lakhs and this car stands alongside a super premium sedan. This is a better experience than their existing Innova and "money saved" over a comparable Velfire which they would not have plonked the big bucks for.

2. Prestige: Honestly, this is not shabby pricing at all at sub 35 on road.
Perfect for several corporates, some premium fleet owners, rich families with a big headcount and slightly more budget conscious (think of it as a second car to anything between C or D segment sedan to a 5 series / X3 segment car.

3. Premium: Someone on top end Innova budget willing to go bottom end of the range for the benefit of the size. Honestly the base variant feels pretty rich too by any measure and they're rightly taking the fight to the top end Innova variant with their base version pricing.

Some all round things going for it. It has a 200 bhp engine with a sophisticated AT and refined engine - across all variants!! Let size be the only concern - you at least get an easy to drive powerful AT regardless of which variant your budget takes you to - unlike the Innova which makes variant selection so difficult (no V AT, only G or Z ATs). I am confident the Innova at the very least will expand its AT to the middle variant too now.

One thing about the Carnival - I will be very surprised if it will be the ONLY car in any garage. It is a REALLY long car and i would be surprised if there is a family out there which will keep this as their only ride. If I had to own this, I would at least keep a GT TSi in my garage as well as a 2nd vehicle.
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Old 5th February 2020, 16:05   #254
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Default Re: Kia Grand Carnival MPV coming in 2020. Edit: Launched @ 24.95 lakhs

I can see babus rushing to KIA showrooms and booking "white" Carnivals for themselves.

Also I can see several 5 star hotels ordering Carnival for it's taxi fleet.
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Old 5th February 2020, 16:12   #255
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Default Re: Kia Grand Carnival MPV coming in 2020. Edit: Launched @ 24.95 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by OSH View Post
With this kind of pricing, they have made the already overpriced Innova Crysta look like a VFM offering. While the Carnival is not directly an Innova rival, people are not going to understand that and leave out the comparo. The top end diesel AT Innova is ~23 lakhs ex-showroom while the base diesel AT Carnival is ~25 lakhs ex-showroom. The Carnival got a little too premium to capture the MPV market IMO.

No doubt the Carnival offers more than it's worth but looks like the Innova is there to rule this segment for years to come.

I think you have hit the nail on the head! Kia should indeed have priced the Carnival a bit more competitively if they were expecting to take away some of the Innova's market share. The way things are right now, Innova's reign of the MPV market seems likely to continue unhindered.
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