[BB311]

Originally Posted by THE-U-

Perhaps the Indian Endeavour owners can rightfully ask Ford for the explanation through class action. Ford better have an excellent justification for the removal of structural members from the chassis of an otherwise perfect vehicle.

I fully agree with your view. My knowledge was based on various structural simulation projects I saw in a company serving a big German brand.

Originally Posted by nd4$pd

Nicely put. I would add one more to your list though.
6. [ASSUMPTION] - Removal of the K-truss only affects towing ability and has no safety/longevity implications.

As you have said, we need to wait for Ford to clarify all the assumptions.

Agreed! The assumption is the word "only" used in my first post.

Originally Posted by GTO

1. No personal attacks or rude posts.

2. No biased / fanboy posts.

Thanks for the support & understanding

Agreed on this. Apologies for any direct/indirect attacks I made earlier.

One point I wanted to bring here is, Indian brochure mentions front suspension as independent coil spring. Indonesian brochure mentions the same as Independent dual wishbone coil spring. I am curious to know, is the terminology different or is the suspension also downgraded?

[Mu009]

Originally Posted by BB311

One point I wanted to bring here is, Indian brochure mentions front suspension as independent coil spring. Indonesian brochure mentions the same as Independent dual wishbone coil spring. I am curious to know, is the terminology different or is the suspension also downgraded?

Not wishing to speculate in any way, so I will say no more than I know (as I always do, but given the tone of this thread so far, it's best to be as explicit as possible about intentions) - usually, a double wishbone front suspension is associated with luxury cars and touted as a better solution to achieving that all important balance between ride and handling.

Edit: My source is a discussion about the same in a "savagegeese" video when he takes a Volvo in to show and explain the underbody as he usually does.
Also, the Hexa has one.

[crdi]

The stepmotherly treatment aside, the most ideal Ford response from a damage control perspective would be like ' C'mon Indians! We've done enough of testing on that local chassis, everything is fine as it is, yet if anyone wants that extra truss thingie, they can get it done at the nearest Ford a.s.s. for free! '

Drill a few holes or weld the thing in place. Ain't be a big hassle, considering the numbers of the model sold.

Existing owners might even opt out!

[parsh]

Originally Posted by BB311

One point I wanted to bring here is, Indian brochure mentions front suspension as independent coil spring. Indonesian brochure mentions the same as Independent dual wishbone coil spring. I am curious to know, is the terminology different or is the suspension also downgraded?

Towards curiosity and confusion, they are referring to the same thing, albeit with a absence/presence of some key words in respective phrases/terms, but not in structure.

Refer the Innova chassis image in my earlier post which shows Independent Coil Spring + Double Wishbone structure for superior front suspension. Similar structure is used in many SUVs, MUVs of today for superior front suspension.

Same/similar design is used when such term(s) is/are used, unless totally contrasted by the presence of physically different structures and so mentioned thereupon.

A look at both the videos will show the similarity in both versions, if not already seen.

[A.G.]

Originally Posted by niteshbids

I've tried to study the positioning, mounting locations and angles of the said members, to me it looks like they are for strengthening of the transmission mounting location so that the clutch/torque converter housing which connects the engine to the transmission and is made of aluminum, does not suffer extreme stress/strain when the engine/transmission is having to pull 3 tons of trailer cargo.

Most likely the 3 tons trailer would be pulled on tarmac without even engaging low range. With low range engaged in an off-road situation, the stresses on Engine-transmission could be far higher.

Originally Posted by ruzbehxyz

To keep things short, compromising on safety is not accepted and that too from Ford who is known for their strong cars or for that matter trucks.

As an owner, that is my biggest concern.

Originally Posted by Skyline GT-R

I feel that Ford would not just delete a "critical" component putting consumers at risk.

The deletion is evident. Hopefully critical or not should be defined in Ford's response whenever they give it.

Originally Posted by speedmunster

All those bashing Ford for not
equipping the Endeavour with the K-Struss, please consider the price of the product first. You guys deserve to be driving the tin boxes made by those so called big car makers. Well done everyone.

That is exactly the whole point – for the price of the product why omit the 2 pieces of metal.
Mod Note: Would request you to review the personal remark in this quote.

Originally Posted by VKumar

Welcome on-board A.G., it is really great to have you here too, you indeed played Sehwag when it comes to the opening!!

Thank you VKumar

Originally Posted by VKumar

I won't doubt the safety of Endeavour, there have been enough of the crashes which prove that this car is still good when it comes to safety.

In terms of safety, ‘Still good’ and same as ANCAP certified Everest would be 2 different things.

Originally Posted by VKumar

Rest if the owner is very much dissatisfied with the Ford, then I am sitting with the cash and will be happy to have a well maintained silver color Endeavour at my disposal for 66% the price!!

Had it been 106%, I would have given a thought .

Originally Posted by VKumar

To be very frank, I am having only two expectations:

• They won't revert at all
• They will revert with a thousand word long e-mail filled with a lot of redundant information

Ford’s focus of ‘transparency’ would be given a new meaning if they do any of the above.

Originally Posted by nitinhegde

- Such components Design is largely driven by market need and it's function(& not only cost!)

Thanks for getting some insights. Incase this design change is market driven, Ford India should have the answer ready as the market driven design change would have originated from them only.

Originally Posted by n.devdath

Let's leave the towing capacity, do we know the impact the resulting flex due to the omission of these members will have on the off-road & on-road behaviour of the vehicle AND its durability in the long run?

With my concern for safety, I would add impact on the front offset crash test to your list.

Originally Posted by navpreet318

I hope now no one will start going to Tata and Mahindra Showrooms asking for K members in the Storme and Scorpio!

OT: your response reminded me that Tata was very clear in this aspect. Pasting an extract from the Aria 4x2 review

Originally Posted by Stratos

The primary difference is that Tata has removed the AWD system, making the cheaper Aria a RWD only. It's noteworthy to mention that the Aria AWD also had a RWD bias, and supplied torque (as much as 45%) to the front wheels *only* when required. To save on cost and to make the vehicle lighter (thus, more fuel efficient too), some chassis members have been removed. The Aria 4x2 is unfortunately not Euro NCAP crash rating worthy, as its AWD sibling is.

and

Fuel efficiency seems to have improved with the Aria 4x2 clocking 13.75 kpl in the ARAI tests. Considering the shaved weight of 200 kgs, this increment is minimal compared to the 13.5 kpl ARAI rating of the AWD.

Alteast they clearly laid down the facts that crash ratings are different for 4x4 and 4x2.

Originally Posted by GTO

Ah, a friend in Ford! Please ask your friend these two questions:
- Do people use SUVs for towing in the Philippines?
- Do people use SUVs for towing in China?

I would add to the list towing load vs off-roading load vs load from an offset crash with and without the differences in Chassis.

Originally Posted by Lalvaz

Its purely because we Indians do not demand better of our manufacturers that they think that they can get away with anything in India.

Absolutely correct.

Originally Posted by swiftdiesel

The first collage shows that silver part mounted differently. I'm not quite sure what that part is but mounted at the centre because of the mising K truss?

The one marked in red is lower side of the automatic transmission.

[GTO]

Ford had better watch it, else it'll become like 'VW / Skoda' where we love the cars but not the company. Too many things Ford has done that leave a bitter taste in the mouth.

There are just so many examples - this latest chassis cheapening is just one more to the list. Frequent price hikes & price cuts of the Endeavour show indecisiveness. Remember how EcoSport prices were once hiked, but the Titanium O actually lost features at the same time? Or how the Figo & Aspire lost features across the range (link)? Insane price changes like this, this, this and this affect consumer confidence.

[samaspire]

Originally Posted by A.G.

The deletion is evident. Hopefully critical or not should be defined in Ford's response whenever they give it.

Have you checked your VIN here?
ETIS FORD LINK

It should give you a clear picture of what your car has and does not.

Originally Posted by GTO

There are just so many examples - this latest chassis cheapening is just one more to the list.

Add this one to the list. This is the case of the missing anti-roll bar in the Aspire. Very similar to this case.

I expect Ford's answer will be similar to what I got:

Dear Mr. Samarth,

Greetings from Ford India !!!

We are in receipt of your mail & noted down the contents,

We would like to inform you that Front Stabilizer Bar / Anti-Roll Bar is not available in Aspire 1.2 Petrol Ambiente Model. There was an inadvertent mistake in our website and we thank you for bringing this to our notice. We have taken this up with concerned department for correction.

Please feel free to contact us if you require any further assistance in this regard.

Regards,
Nithin

Ford India Customer Relations
Toll Free No 1800-425-2500 / 1800-419-2500.

Their action was to update the website to delete the anti-roll bar. . And here their company salesmen gloat in believing that Ford is the most ethical car company in the world

[GTO]

Originally Posted by samaspire

Add this one to the list. This is the case of the missing anti-roll bar in the Aspire. Very similar to this case.

Thanks! Request: In the future, please always share such updates in a new thread. That ensures more visibility, a dedicated discussion and making the thread easier to find via search. That anti-roll bar discussion definitely deserved a new thread .

[samaspire]

Originally Posted by GTO

Thanks! Request: In the future, please always share such updates in a new thread. That ensures more visibility, a dedicated discussion and making the thread easier to find via search. That anti-roll bar discussion definitely deserved a new thread .

Right you are! If only I had known it then, but I was a Newbie and was just learning the ropes. But we did have a lengthy discussion regarding the same in the Ford Aspire Official Review.

BTW, even that reply I got from the Ford technical team was not the complete truth. Eventually I discovered that none of the 1.2 petrol variants had the anti-roll bar (not just the base Ambiente variant as stated in the email). That is also the reason I went ahead with the purchase, assuming the car t-bhp tested was also missing it.

[Rahul Rao]

If a cross member has to be removed, the chassis tooling will also change, to make the change it is going to cost something, whereas just copying the tooling from one plant at the next one will be much cheaper.
At less than 500 vehicles sold here every month, and considering cost of metal saved, Ford is not saving even Rs 500 per vehicle. that is a total of just Rs 2,50,000 a month.
Will they take the effort of changes in tooling for such a small sum, I guess not, even the change in tooling cost will not be recovered.
Is Ford using a totally different chassis here, or when Ford developed the new Endeavour did they continue the same older chassis with minimal tooling changes here.
Or is it possible that when older Chassis was upgraded for the new Endeavour did they develop two seperate chassis.

[wrongturn]

In South Africa even the 2.2L version has the K -truss.



Check at the 4.34 minute mark in the following video.

https://youtu.be/uy15eVcNzqo

Even Myanmar gets it!



Check at 0.46 in following video.

https://youtu.be/R_E3ETmqcl8

[ruzbehxyz]

Originally Posted by samaspire

Have you checked your VIN here?
ETIS FORD LINK

It should give you a clear picture of what your car has

Now Ford has stopped this. You only get basic details and no further details of features.

[Flyer]

Originally Posted by wrongturn

In South Africa even the 2.2L version has the K -truss.

Even Myanmar gets it!

The Endeavour/Everest sold in South Africa and Myanmmar are exports from India (I think). How come these cars have it and not present in Indian version? Is Ford making different chassis for sale in India and exports?

[magikrider]

Never expected this from Ford. I guess Fortuner is a better bet if you want peace of mind after paying 35+ lacs for a car.

[nareshtrao]

Originally Posted by Flyer

The Endeavour/Everest sold in South Africa and Myanmmar are exports from India (I think). How come these cars have it and not present in Indian version? Is Ford making different chassis for sale in India and exports?

No. These are not exported from India. India largely exports Ecosport and some hatchbacks. That to mostly to Latin America after US decided against India made models.

Ford Engines are manufactured in South Africa, body parts are largely from Australia and Thailand. Both SA and Myanmar get models assembled in Thailand. There is also some assembly in SA.

India gets CKD versions sourced from different countries including some parts from Germany. Only assembly happens in Chennai Plant.

So this is a deliberate omission for whatever reason.

p.s. Just noticed this video shows the model with a Trailer Hook - This is built in to the chassis at the back and the rear bumper has a different shape. Is that the reason this version has the K-Struss bars? Reinforcements meant to drag heavy trailers?