[howler]

How about everyone here stop blaming manufacturers ( who are only bound to work within govt regulations ) and start doing something about those same regulations ? Add to that an overly entitled Indian market that’s wants the whole shebang but “sastha mein”. And there’s nothing to be proud of with that attitude. How many good cars have we seen not do well while the tin cans that our national carrier puke out are sensational hits just because they have bling and a touchscreen , and 1kmpl better than the rest. We as a market need to mature before we can start condemning manufacturers who are in businesses, well .. to make money. Everything comes at a price unfortunately.
Does anyone have a comparison of the prices of the Everest / endeavour in the markets which have he k member ?

[Turbohead]

Originally Posted by niteshbids

I've tried to study the positioning, mounting locations and angles of the said members, to me it looks like they are for strengthening of the transmission mounting location so that the clutch/torque converter housing which connects the engine to the transmission and is made of aluminum, does not suffer extreme stress/strain when the engine/transmission is having to pull 3 tons of trailer cargo.

I also felt the same too. They must've used bigger bolts and nuts for mounting the transmission ( if that was possible) for a sensible cost cutting measure(assumption). The other possibility is that it could act as a 'crumble member' ( just an assumption). If seen closely at the left and right ends, the k truss members has something like a pivot point. This will cause the member to pivot downward on loading and then bend if the stresses are greater than yield stress thereby acting like an energy absorbing member. This will reduce cabin intrusion to a good extent. I could be completely wrong too.

Honestly, Ford needs to give a technical answer and justify what they've done in order to restore lost faith. Besides, I've heard from some friends in the US that Ford simply doesn't build quality cars like it used to before.

[Brumby]

A bit off topic but I think time to sue Toyota now, Fortuner is listed as MPV and not SUV on Toyota's Thailand website

I hope we are comparing now how Toyota can sell an MPV from one market as a SUV to the rest of the world, please note that Innova is listed in the same category, Prado and Land Cruiser are not a part of the list.

Cheers

[Flyer]

Originally Posted by howler

Does anyone have a comparison of the prices of the Everest / endeavour in the markets which have he k member ?

Looks like Everest sold in Philippines with K-truss is cheaper than the one in India being sold without K-truss.



22,88,000 Philippine Pesos comes about 29.26 lakhs INR. Doesn't the top spec Endeavour in India cost around 32 lakhs?

I'm not sure if the specs are same in both countries. Attaching screenshots of standard features. Owners can compare.

[Kishen.padiyar]

Originally Posted by Flyer

Looks like Everest sold in Philippines with K-truss is cheaper than the one in India being sold without K-truss.

Ex-showroom price is includes local sales taxes and other levies which aren't the same. When prices between our states are different, how fair is it to compare with another country/region altogether?

[v6kgang]

I for one contradict the point that specific manuals cannot be made for specific versions, We are paying the price for the car, which includes the manual. i don't think cost of designing/composing/printing a manual is done for free by any manufacturer. When i get my car i would like to have specific information about it.
Coming to the topic of this thread, whether the car in question is akin to manual or not is not the point. the point is if the structural integrity of the car is compromised or not by removing the "K" member. If only india misses out on the part, i don't think we can rely on any crash test done outside india...is anyone aware of any india specific crash test done and if that car indeed had the "K" member or Not?
like others, I am also very interested to see what Ford has to say in this matter.

[Skyline GT-R]

If Ford users manual has a disclaimer, then there isn't anything a customer could complain of. Maybe it is a cost cutting exercise but cannot be blamed if it was not advertised/claimed in website/writing/sales brochure drawings when the sales offer was made. I feel that Ford would not just delete a "critical" component putting consumers at risk.

[Brumby]

Originally Posted by v6kgang

I for one contradict the point that specific manuals cannot be made for specific versions, We are paying the price for the car, which includes the manual. i don't think cost of designing/composing/printing a manual is done for free by any manufacturer. When i get my car i would like to have specific information about it.
Coming to the topic of this thread, whether the car in question is akin to manual or not is not the point. the point is if the structural integrity of the car is compromised or not by removing the "K" member. If only india misses out on the part, i don't think we can rely on any crash test done outside india...is anyone aware of any india specific crash test done and if that car indeed had the "K" member or Not?
like others, I am also very interested to see what Ford has to say in this matter.

Apologies for saying this but it is not possible to have equipment specific manual.

It's just a car worth 30 odd lakhs(mentioning for comparison purposes only), there are equipment worth millions of dollars which customers buy for commercial purposes with their own engineers taking care of the maintenance, even there the manuals are for a specific series and not for that particular equipment. Manuals specific to equipment are provided separately to the workshops and even in those manuals there are a lot of things which have no mention at all. The details are provided as and when the makers get feedback or request from the customers.

Cheers.

[speedmunster]

Originally Posted by howler

How about everyone here stop blaming manufacturers ( who are only bound to work within govt regulations ) and start doing something about those same regulations ? Add to that an overly entitled Indian market that’s wants the whole shebang but “sastha mein”. And there’s nothing to be proud of with that attitude. How many good cars have we seen not do well while the tin cans that our national carrier puke out are sensational hits just because they have bling and a touchscreen , and 1kmpl better than the rest. We as a market need to mature before we can start condemning manufacturers who are in businesses, well .. to make money. Everything comes at a price unfortunately.
Does anyone have a comparison of the prices of the Everest / endeavour in the markets which have he k member ?

+1 to that. If one checks out the some of the Australian comparo videos on youtube, one will notice that the Everest is a direct competitor to the Landcruiser Prado. Now, correct me if I am wrong but the Prado retails here in India for close to a crore of rupees whereas the Endeavour is around 33 lakhs. That is one-third the price. We, as a country, are okay to pay a crore of rupees for Prado but raise a hue and cry if the Endeavour (costing one-third of a crore) is missing two pieces of metal. All those bashing Ford for not
equipping the Endeavour with the K-Struss, please consider the price of the product first. You guys deserve to be driving the tin boxes made by those so called big car makers. Well done everyone.

[i74js]

Originally Posted by speedmunster

You guys deserve to be driving the tin boxes made by those so called big car makers. Well done everyone.

I for one am not looking for your advise on what I deserve or not. Other members may concur or differ. Those who stick to Maruti have their own reasons and those who scout for other options have their own.

Everyone is free to form an opinion on the basis of information available in public domain and apply her / his wisdom on top of that.

Its a straight case of absence of a component in the chassis (and not a feature) and the absence is only observed for the product being sold in Indian market (unless proved otherwise).

Unless substantiated by exact reason as to why Ford India decided to remove this component; the discussion is bound to continue. More so, this has not been the first instance when Ford India has skimped material / components for their offerings in India.

It is fair to expect a clean & transparent behavior from Ford for their flagship offering in India (Mustang is not their mainstream product; it is just a halo product for Indian buyers).

Features are dependent on trim which we buy (Ford can certainly say that X feature will be available only beyond certain trim level), but missing components in the white body / underpinning of the vehicle is something shouts "compromise".

[v6kgang]

Originally Posted by Brumby

Apologies for saying this but it is not possible to have equipment specific manual..

Hi Brumby, while i perfectly understand your point, it's merely a wish to see it happening. if not in a printed format, atleast in form of a digital page, where the not-applicable portion's could be simply not shown dynamically based on the model we are browsing for.

Originally Posted by speedmunster

You guys deserve to be driving the tin boxes made by those so called big car makers. Well done everyone.

i would like to think, as indian customers, we are evolving quickly and in positive direction.

I for one don't want to involve cost into this discussion (read: at what price India should get the "K" beam in Endy )and would like to see the outcome of why Ford would not provide the beam specifically in this part of the Geography.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by GTO

Have just dropped an email to Ford. I would also like to know WHY the owner's manual shows the missing part.

Have they come back to us yet Rush?

So far, the discussion is centered around 3 questions and Ford's official reply will at least put 2 of them to rest: -

1. WHY were these members removed in the Indian version of the 3.2 (only?)??

2. WHAT tests were conducted to ensure that their removal hasn't impacted vehicle performance/safety/durability across parameters?

3. Will Ford issue variant-specific owner's manuals to avoid such situations in the future?

While the answer to the last question is most likely anybody's guess, the first 2 are actually the more important points that need to be responsibly and transparently answered by Ford.

PS: My hunch - Ford has used the 2.2 chassis for both the 2.2 & 3.2 variants in India to justify volumes (consequently lower costs) and hence the members are missing.

[VKumar]

Welcome on-board A.G., it is really great to have you here too, you indeed played Sehwag when it comes to the opening!!

Originally Posted by A.G.

presence of the missing K-Truss. This clearly shows that there is no explanation or mention of this glaring discrepancy in the Indian version of the Everest.

Going by the argument presented by the OP and the ones by the members, what I understand is:

• First and foremost, irrespective of anything else; Ford India should provide a satisfactory explanation for the same along with technical reasons. I would in fact prefer to have some finite element analysis reports of entire assembly with different kind of loading for the better understanding of the difference the presence and absence of this 'K' truss makes
• Before jumping to any conclusions, it is equally important to understand the force distribution by the said components - if they aren't required, then they are better left aside
• Thirdly, members need to understand that force distribution is a tricky thing and it is not important that only rear sections are responsible for perfect towing - at times the front most component can come out to be the most important aspect there - I have seen such examples where the entire assembly fails just because of a component which doesn't look suspicious but ended up crashing everything
• I won't doubt the safety of Endeavour, there have been enough of the crashes which prove that this car is still good when it comes to safety. Same goes for off road abilities, the channel of .Anshuman says more than any document or expert about how tough the Endeavour still is when it comes to performing under extreme conditions / stress. If the chassis was weak or incompetent, then the owners of the cars those take part in off roading time and again would have been sitting at A.S.S. now with bent chassis or broken components

So, IMO we need to wait for the Ford India to speak out something and then only jump to the conclusion. Making hue and cry without actually understanding what exactly is the component meant for is not going to take anyone anywhere.

Rest if the owner is very much dissatisfied with the Ford, then I am sitting with the cash and will be happy to have a well maintained silver color Endeavour at my disposal for 66% the price!!

Originally Posted by n.devdath

Have they come back to us yet Rush?

To be very frank, I am having only two expectations:

• They won't revert at all
• They will revert with a thousand word long e-mail filled with a lot of redundant information

The biggest issue with men handling such jobs is that they don't understand what exactly an enthusiast demands (everyone knows that there are less than few enthusiasts at such positions) and all they know is a fixed number of replies which they remember. It's something like; they fit 5 different replies in 10 different ways for 50 different questions


The matter in question requires an engineer to talk to the people asking the question, but instead it will be an MBA (probably who don't even know 0.001% about mechanicals and material science and can't understand the word of engineers too) who will be asked in the board meeting that if he can handle this and he will proudly stand and say "I can do this with an ease", without even knowing what he actually needs to do - the typical corporate culture you know!!

[M35]

Attached is the screen shot from Ford Everest Philippines and Ford Everest China official websites. This specific 'big load capacity' is under the 'performance' section which I fail to find on the respective Ford India Endeavour page.

[nitinhegde]

Originally Posted by M35

Attached is the screen shot from Ford Everest Philippines and Ford Everest China official websites. This specific 'big load capacity' is under the 'performance' section which I fail to find on the respective Ford India Endeavour page.

Absolutely!!

Just FYI, I had shared this team-bhp post with one of my friends who works for FORD US projects. His quick comments were:

- Probably, Indian market may not need those kind of Load bearing components like in AUS where they use these SUVs etc to tow heavy stuff very frequently(it is one of their primary need).
- He mentioned that such heavy Towing etc is probably not allowed in India(am not sure) & is not demanded by Indian market.
- Such components Design is largely driven by market need and it's function(& not only cost!)
- Lastly, he said that Team-bhp folks were not fair to FORD by jumping to conclusions without knowing the real reasons. He feels that, we at Team-BHP, are biased towards some manufacturers and our hyper reactions to these topics impacts the India sales in favor of other manufacturers who maybe rather undeserving(I can understand his emotions as he works for FORD )

I had asked him to contact guys internally at FORD to dig more but he refused to do so.

Just thought of sharing.