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Old 13th July 2018, 18:09   #1
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Rumour: Maruti's expensive cars to get durable lithium-ion batteries

According to a media report, Maruti Suzuki will be replacing the lead-based batteries on its cars with lithium-ion batteries. These will be offered on the more expensive models including the Swift hatchback from FY2021.

Rumour: Maruti's expensive cars to get durable lithium-ion batteries-2017marutiswift06.jpg

The batteries will be sourced from Suzuki's upcoming battery plant at Gujarat, allowing the factory to achieve economies of scale. It is also expected to be more cost-effective than sourcing lead batteries from vendors.

The government is also trying to promote the use of alternative battery technologies, since use of lead has adverse implications on the environment. In the second draft of the Faster Adoption and Manufacturing of Hybrid and Electric Vehicles in India (FAME) scheme, the government has cancelled subsidies for vehicles fitted with lead batteries.

Source: Livemint

Link to Team-BHP News

Last edited by GTO : 16th July 2018 at 10:24.
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Old 13th July 2018, 18:22   #2
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While this is a good move, I don't think Lead acid batteries for a car like Swift will cost as much as 10K.
The real intention is to achieve higher economies of scale to help Maruti in their electric vehicle program.
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Old 13th July 2018, 20:52   #3
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re: Rumour: Maruti's expensive cars to get durable lithium-ion batteries

I will prefer the good old Lead Acid battery over Lithium ion any day. Lithium ion battery is dangerous and much unstable than a conventional car battery. Engine bay generates good amount of heat, which can damage them and cause a fire.

Also, consider a case of an accident, I am sure this battery will burst into flames and cause whole lot of damage.
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Old 13th July 2018, 21:08   #4
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re: Rumour: Maruti's expensive cars to get durable lithium-ion batteries

The numbers wont make sense to me. Hope it is not some kind of eyewash. The Amaron battery I brought for my car five years ago for 4000 rupees is doing well even today without any maintenance. If they want customers to shell out 15k for a lithium ion battery, then I would be better off with my trusty lead acid battery. Maybe not an environment friendly move to use lead batteries, but the economics arent practical.
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Old 13th July 2018, 22:33   #5
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re: Rumour: Maruti's expensive cars to get durable lithium-ion batteries

I thought that plant made batteries for future EV models.

They say " A conventional lead battery is priced between Rs. 10,000-12,000." Which is hogwash. Because the price depends on what battery and for which car. Batteries for most cars, excluding luxury and exotics, are in the 3.5-10K range. So I really don't see how they can justify expecting customers to shell out 16-17K for a Li-ion to fit in their Marutis!

Plus Li ion battery are not compatible with normal LAB chargers. They also detest heat and are highly combustible. This, IMO, isn't a good idea in a tropical country. I'd rather they jumped to true maintenance free VRLA gel cell batteries like Optimas instead of jumping the gun.
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Old 13th July 2018, 22:40   #6
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re: Rumour: Maruti's expensive cars to get durable lithium-ion batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by TusharK View Post
There are few more reasons why Maruti may have taken this decision. A conventional lead battery is priced between Rs. 10,000-12,000. In comparison, a lithium-ion battery costs Rs. 16,000-17,000, however it can run for around 5 years, whereas a lead battery needs to be serviced every year.
Which of the maruti product is using a conventional battery that costs 10k INR? Regular DIN 50 / 55 one's are around 6k INR.
Secondly the annual service that they are speaking about cost's nothing more than few hundreds and the products lasts for over 3 years.
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Old 13th July 2018, 22:45   #7
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re: Rumour: Maruti's expensive cars to get durable lithium-ion batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rshrey22 View Post
I will prefer the good old Lead Acid battery over Lithium ion any day. Lithium ion battery is dangerous and much unstable than a conventional car battery. Engine bay generates good amount of heat, which can damage them and cause a fire.

Also, consider a case of an accident, I am sure this battery will burst into flames and cause whole lot of damage.
While it is unlikely to be sold in India. The perfect lithium based battery for hot temperature is Lithium Titanium Oxide, they have a life of 20000 cycles which is atleast 20 times more then the best exide tubular battery or about 30 to 66 times more then your regular car lead acid battery. It will also not catch fire even if its punctured, crushed, overcharged. Check the videos below



http://www.scib.jp/en/about/index.htm

Best part about this chemistry is the voltage per cell is exactly the same as lead acid cell voltage, so this chemistry makes perfect sense to replace the 12v lead acid battery. Also useful for solar off grid battery, once installed should service a good 20 years or more.

Toshiba is a pioneer in Lithium Titanium Oxide battery and if anyone remembers Toshiba is the battery supplier for Suzuki at the upcoming plant in Gujarat.

But the article talks about regular lithium Ion, which by itself can reach 60c to 90c temperature, if its rapidly discharged at 25c room temperature.

Last edited by aim120 : 13th July 2018 at 22:53.
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Old 13th July 2018, 23:06   #8
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re: Rumour: Maruti's expensive cars to get durable lithium-ion batteries

If luxury/perfirmance cars choose expensive (AGM) batteries, it's understandable for the segment, but people won't expect that in a Maruti.

IMHO Marutis' market dominance is because they are considered by public as sort of like staple food, not something exotic. The expensive cars in their range are being bought by well informed & well connected individuals. Doing something so odd in that range of cars will hit their brand. Such buyers are most likely to be major influencers in the society.

As a profit oriented company, Suzuki may be trying to use its market dominance to make an over-reach and grab a few extra thousands during the service for a battery change. If they'll build in compatibility issues (like the ECU being able to detect Lead Acid Battery) to prevent people from using ordinary /non OEM batteries. That'll be abit predatory IMHO.

Anyway, let's see if better sense prevails. If not, this is India, people will find a way around it.

Last edited by GrammarNazi : 13th July 2018 at 23:15.
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Old 13th July 2018, 23:31   #9
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re: Rumour: Maruti's expensive cars to get durable lithium-ion batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by aim120 View Post
While it is unlikely to be sold in India. The perfect lithium based battery for hot temperature is Lithium Titanium Oxide, they have a life of 20000 cycles which is atleast 20 times more then the best exide tubular battery or about 30 to 66 times more then your regular car lead acid battery. It will also not catch fire even if its punctured, crushed, overcharged. Check the videos below

But the article talks about regular lithium Ion, which by itself can reach 60c to 90c temperature, if its rapidly discharged at 25c room temperature.
Not going into the chemistry but I WILL say that Lithium ion batteries are not rugged enough to be employed in Indian automotive industry.

ALSO, I believe in 'Don't fix it if it ain't broke' philosophy. So, thumbs down to it from my side.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 14th July 2018 at 09:10. Reason: Please avoid quoting the entire post. Quote only the relevant portions it may inconvenience small-scale/mobile users. Thanks!
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Old 14th July 2018, 07:55   #10
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re: Rumour: Maruti's expensive cars to get durable lithium-ion batteries

I have a feeling they are not telling us something. I am certain it's not about the customers. Because, the first time the battery is up for replacement, guess which one a typical Maruti customer is going to get.
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Old 14th July 2018, 10:38   #11
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Re: Rumour: Maruti's expensive cars to get durable lithium-ion batteries

Will a lithium ion battery be smaller and lighter that the existing lead acid ones?

If yes, that might be a factor for considering the switch.
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Old 14th July 2018, 18:10   #12
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Re: Rumour: Maruti's expensive cars to get durable lithium-ion batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rshrey22 View Post
...
Lithium ion battery is dangerous and much unstable than a conventional car battery.
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
...
Which is hogwash
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Boss View Post
...
Secondly the annual service that they are speaking about cost's nothing more than few hundreds and the products lasts for over 3 years.
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
If luxury/perfirmance cars choose expensive (AGM) batteries, it's understandable for the segment, but people won't expect that in a Maruti.
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by prakash_ajp View Post
I have a feeling they are not telling us something.
...
Woah ! What's with all the negativity ?

For once a manufacturer is rumored to offer something advanced ( & that too only in 2021 ) & the "enthusiast" is already up in arms.
It should be noted that Maruti is often panned, usually by the same enthusiast, for offering obsolete tech to its gullible customers

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbhiJ View Post
Will a lithium ion battery be smaller and lighter that the existing lead acid ones ?
...
The energy density of a Lithium-Ion battery is typically around 200 Wh/Kg, that of a Lead-Acid one not so much ( only around 40 Wh/Kg ).
Which means for the same capacity, a Lithium-Ion battery is going to be much smaller than the equivalent Lead-Acid one, or for the same weight, you're going to be able to store much more energy.
Most, if not all, superbikes have long switched to these solid-state batteries, it's the inordinate cost of larger units that preclude their wider automotive use.
Besides, factor in that in 2021 most cars are going to feature some kind of hybrid tech & this "news" only makes more sense
I think, we should, as so called enthusiasts, put away the tin-foiled hats & hope other manufacturers have similar plans as well.

Last edited by im_srini : 14th July 2018 at 18:13.
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Old 14th July 2018, 18:18   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by im_srini View Post
Woah ! What's with all the negativity ?
For once a manufacturer is rumored to offer something advanced ( & that too only in 2021 ) & the "enthusiast" is already up in arms
Not any manufacturer, but one that is hardly known for innovation and leading from front in terms of technology. If Maruti Suzuki is installing a 15K battery where they could get away with one costing just 4k, then let's not fool ourselves, there has to be a reason, not necessarily a negative one.
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Old 14th July 2018, 18:56   #14
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Re: Rumour: Maruti's expensive cars to get durable lithium-ion batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by im_srini View Post
For once a manufacturer is rumored to offer something advanced ( & that too only in 2021 ) & the "enthusiast" is already up in arms.It should be noted that Maruti is often panned, usually by the same enthusiast, for offering obsolete tech to its gullible customers

Besides, factor in that in 2021 most cars are going to feature some kind of hybrid tech & this "news" only makes more sense. I think, we should, as so called enthusiasts, put away the tin-foiled hats & hope other manufacturers have similar plans as well.
Being an enthusiast from the tech field I've always been an early tech adopter & even willing to pay a premium to do so IF that new tech makes a difference. So this is not negativity for the sake of it. If they're installing Li batteries in hybrid cars (as do other hybrid car mfrs) it may be far more acceptable to the end customer

But spending 15-17K on an SLI battery for a Maruti is quite frankly nuts when current batteries cost a fraction of that. Maruti, like most Jap car manufacturers, serve a price sensitive customer segment and increasing the costs of maintenance by utilising specialised expensive batteries won't win them any friends.
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Old 14th July 2018, 19:09   #15
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Re: Rumour: Maruti's expensive cars to get durable lithium-ion batteries

I am still wondering why they will not use "smart chargers" on the car itself. This is like the local vendors selling NiMh batteries along with "dumb" chargers that guarantee the cells will fail in short order.
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