Team-BHP - Tata VS Toyota all over again

If in US, the preference for a 'nosed' truck makes sense because of the aero-dynamics. A flat-faced, cabin-on-engine truck will have relatively lower FE.

In India, the trucks with noses are preferred for hilly regions and the full-forward designs are preferred for highway transport.

While the 407 succeeded, the same kind of success was not seen by the Tempo Traveller.

DCM - what can I say... Cloth [Mills] and trucks are not very close, are they?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steeroid (Post 348228)

Hence the 407 was a 4 tonner with 70 bhp, 1210 is a 12 tonner with 100 bhp, 1516 is a 15 tonner with 160 bhp, 609 was a 6 tonner with 90 bhp and so on and so forth. They also have models like the 2316, 2520 etc that we dont see much in our country.

OT: This used to be the way Tata designated it's trucks, but of late, with turbo charging etc, I am not sure if the relationship between this nomenclature and the capacity/power still holds.

Btw, was the Tatamobile / 207 a two tonner ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by condor (Post 348312)

Btw, was the Tatamobile / 207 a two tonner ?

The Tatamobile was initially launched as the 206 (60 bhp) and after a year or so came out as the 207 (68 bhp). It was 2 ton GVW. Car weighted about 1.4 tons approx and the payload was 600 kg or so.

Quote:

The Cabstar was more in the 407 league in terms of capacity, but the 407 effectively took care of the Cabstar, the Dyna, the Swaraj Mazda T3500 and the Mitsubishi Canter.

please can you elaborate on that ? as far as i see, there are plenty of canters, mazdas & a few cabstars around. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by esteem_lover (Post 348551)

please can you elaborate on that ? as far as i see, there are plenty of canters, mazdas & a few cabstars around. :)

Obviously there's more to things than meets the eye. Lets see what the published figures say - 51% of the Passenger LCV market and 71% of the Goods Carrier LCV market should be 'elaborate' enough...in comparison the Mazdas you see around have 1.7% of the market while the Canters that you see plenty of have a slightly better 2.9%.

The Mahindra numbers come from their funny looking old LCV that apparently does very well in Andhra, Karnataka, Tamil Nadu and Maharashtra, not from the Cabstar.

Perhaps this will tell us how India's most maligned automaker is able to post a 2nd Quarter-only Net Profit of about Rs.450 Crores.

I think TATAs will be a big force to reckon with for the automobile industry around the world.... around 8-10 years ago, they had the tata-mobile, estate and sierra selling small volumes....now look at what they have achieved in such a short span of time....its phenomenal... If I imagine the same positive shift for the next decade too...then it will not just be TATA vs Toyota, but TATA vs the rest !!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steeroid (Post 348228)

The Tata model numbers are a combination of tonnage and output (bhp) rounded to the nearest 10. Hence the 407 was a 4 tonner with 70 bhp, 1210 is a 12 tonner with 100 bhp, 1516 is a 15 tonner with 160 bhp, 609 was a 6 tonner with 90 bhp and so on and so forth. They also have models like the 2316, 2520 etc that we dont see much in our country.

There have been some notable exceptions to this rule. Within a year of its launch, the GVW of the 407 was increased to 5.3 tonnes. Therefore, it should have been redesignated as 507. But because the 407 designation had become quite popular by then, TELCO stuck to the 407 designation.
In Euro-III territories of the country, the 407 is now sold as 410 because its BHP has increased to 100. What a nice byproduct of the effort to meet the new emission norms! Similarly, 709 has become 712. Interestingly, to the best of my knowledge, the increase in power hasn't been attained using CRDI but some other type of higher pressure pump. There are some other improvements as well.

Coming to the other exceptions to the rule, well, the 1210 engine developed 112 BHP @ 2800 RPM and I always had difficulty in comprehending why it wasn't called 1211.

Similarly, 1510 is a popular bus chassis model from Tata but its BHP has always been 120 or more, not 100 as the designation would suggest.

Confusing, isn't it?

Cheers!

Quote:

Originally Posted by directinjection (Post 348924)

Interestingly, to the best of my knowledge, the increase in power hasn't been attained using CRDI but some other type of higher pressure pump. There are some other improvements as well.

Coming to the other exceptions to the rule, well, the 1210 engine developed 112 BHP @ 2800 RPM and I always had difficulty in comprehending why it wasn't called 1211.

Similarly, 1510 is a popular bus chassis model from Tata but its BHP has always been 120 or more, not 100 as the designation would suggest.

I thought the increase came from adding a turbo and intercooler. The very first 407s were non turbo.

The naming convention ahs worked well for Tata. And the name would be more important than sticking to the naming convention. It's easier to identify - I would rather have the 407 continue as a more powerful 407, than call it a 507. Any such renaming could have caused confusion .. with questions like - why new name when it looks just the same?

Looks like all of Tata's trucks now are turbo charged. M&M on the other hand has introduced common rails on their [light] commercial vehicles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mpower (Post 349002)

I thought the increase came from adding a turbo and intercooler. The very first 407s were non turbo.

407 was turbocharged quite a few years back when Euro-I emission norms came into force. The power increased only marginally from 65 BHP to 70.

The increase in power in the Euro-III version (100 BHP) is quite considerable and involves much more than merely turbocharging/intercooling.