[Vik0728]

Originally Posted by AutoNoob

So, we should expect all the enforcement by the government and no self-discipline.

Just FYI:

- I bought my first bike in 2002, and since have never ridden without a helmet.
- I bought my first car in 2007, and since have never driven without wearing my seat belt.
- I have driven across the US West coast, from Ireland to UK and from Dubai to Abu Dhabi, and was never once had a traffic violation.
- In all my 20 years and over 2.4 lakh Kms of driving in India, I have never been penalized for over speeding, signal jumping, or DUI.

So I don't need a rule book or government for common sense dude!!

My point was that if government wants to impose certain restrictions, they must be tangible. Installing speed governors or alerts in vehicles is a cheap way of getting around the problem.

The amount of tax that one pays to get a brand new bike/car on road is huge, and it would take a puny fraction of the cost to upgrade our infrastructure.

[giri1.8]

Originally Posted by Vik0728

My point was that if government wants to impose certain restrictions, they must be tangible. Installing speed governors or alerts in vehicles is a cheap way of getting around the problem.

True!

I have said this already and wish to say again, If government can fine us for not obeying their ancient rules, shouldn't people have to power to penalize them back for every mistake/imperfections/life threatening errors that the they make?

People seem to forget that government works for people and not the other way around. Countries like Japan have clean records not because of strict enforcement but because of people's discipline. We don't have to look at the western slave system to correct our flaws I believe

[VineetG]

Originally Posted by giri1.8

For Expressway its mentioned as 120, for NH 100 and for some category of Urban roads its 70.

The limit of Yamuna Expressway and Agra Lucknow Expressway is still at 100 kmph, despite the central government's gazette notification.

They are happy to challan you on exceeding 100. We have now such wonderful road infrastructure in some places, and woefully low speed limits.

If you look at the Agra Lucknow expressway, it is comparable to the best in the world. Why limit it to 100 or 120 only. Today we have modern cars capable of safely cruising at higher speeds.

Also, with Nitin Gadkari planning the Delhi Jaipur and Delhi Mumbai super expressways with speeds of 140 kmph, what will happen to those cars with the speed alert system?

Rgds
Vineet

[tilt]

Originally Posted by AutoNoob

*SNIP*

Sir, did you just say comfort is higher priority than safety ??

*SNIP*

*sigh* one more person subscribing to the misconception that high speed = unsafe and therefore the unsaid corollary - slow-speeds (or sticking to below the linits) = safe.

Yes, I did read that you do track your car. So I do understand that you must be capable of being safe at high speeds and that you should be at the very least a very decent driver.

And yes, I also read that you do not exceed posted limits on the streets. That only means that you personally do not have an issue with these beeps. However, you also seem to promote the idea that since you do not find it a hindrance, neither should anyone else. I do not share that opinion that others should not have a problem with it.

I am sure you would've also seen posts here about there being roads in India where the posted limits are higher than 80, thereby making the beeps a hindrance while the driver is being perfectly legal. I would like to know how you would respond to that particular argument. Please note, I am NOT talking about the 120kph alerts here, only the 80kph one.

Yes, posts in this thread probably violate TBHP's rules, but if you notice, the very premise of this thread invites these posts.

Your post paints a (probably erroneous) picture of your being quite "holier-than-thou" and "better-than-thou". I do not know if that's the impression you wished to create.

I am not saying that you should not be permitted to say what you said, I am merely writing down my opinion on what I thought after reading your post.

I may not like (or agree with) what you say, but I shall defend your right to say it.

Cheers

[VPJ74]

Since safety is one of the 3 key factors for me in a car ( others being safety and safety), i felt compelled to contribute to this post again.

I agree that high speed does not always equate to unsafe driving and vice versa. However we have to keep in mind the context and conditions here. In India, with over 2 lac deaths on our roads last year, automobiles have become a weapon of mass destruction. Nothing else comes close.

Given such horror, there is understandably a huge push to bring this statistic down. I personally welcome all initiatives possible. Some posts here including mine might sound patronising but the broader goal is to create awareness and encourage people to be cautious. Our community should be taking the lead here.

As they say, brakes don't restrict driving they allow us to drive fast.

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by VPJ74

Given such horror, there is understandably a huge push to bring this statistic down. I personally welcome all initiatives possible. Some posts here including mine might sound patronising but the broader goal is to create awareness and encourage people to be cautious. Our community should be taking the lead here.

As they say, brakes don't restrict driving they allow us to drive fast.

If the 80kmph speed reminder beep saves ONE LIFE across the country - it is absolutely fine to ignore a million people complaining about a small beep.

And I'm sure it will save at least one life by reminding an ignorant driver to slow down.

[silvercloud]

Originally Posted by VineetG

The limit of Yamuna Expressway and Agra Lucknow Expressway is still at 100 kmph, despite the central government's gazette notification.


If you look at the Agra Lucknow expressway, it is comparable to the best in the world. Why limit it to 100 or 120 only. Today we have modern cars capable of safely cruising at higher speeds.


Rgds
Vineet

100 to 120 is already a significantly high speed, irrespective of road conditions. With relatively low traffic sense, high lane violations, almost zero stray animal control anything above this is just asking for trouble.

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by VineetG

Today we have modern cars capable of safely cruising at higher speeds.

And many morons driving those cars. We have them too.

If we are driving slow - we get more time to react to such a moron who has lost control of his/her car at high speed.

[VineetG]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

And many morons driving those cars. We have them too.

If we are driving slow - we get more time to react to such a moron who has lost control of his/her car at high speed.

Dear Reinhard,
There is a difference between driving fast and driving rash. If you read my post, i am speaking of expressways like the Agra Lucknow expressway. I don't know if you have driven on it or not, but you will realize that cruising speeds above 100 or 120 in a good car are absolutely safe.

When you read about accidents on many expressways, they are mainly cars and MUVs overloaded with 10-15 people, or when people fall asleep at the wheel.

I have seen more moron slow drivers, hugging the rightmost lane at ultra slow speeds and not giving a pass.

So, there are moron fast drivers and moron slow drivers.

Also, if driving slow, how slow is slow? 40? 20? 60? Maybe the safest is Zero. Just stop in the middle of the road.

Speed limits should be scientifically set, based on road engineering, traffic flow, capability of modern vehicles etc.
Generally, the rule of thumb is that on a road, you let people drive at their natural pace, some will be slower, some will be faster, based on their driving style, reflexes, car capability etc. Then you take the 85th percentile of that (Speed below with 85% of people are driving) and set that as a speed limit.

My only contention is that speed limits are set randomly, and not based on any scientific and objective criteria.

Rgds

[vipul_singh]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

If the 80kmph speed reminder beep saves ONE LIFE across the country - it is absolutely fine to ignore a million people complaining about a small beep.

And I'm sure it will save at least one life by reminding an ignorant driver to slow down.

I entirely disagree with you. If saving the last life (or 'a single life') becomes a criteria for designing policy, we would have to trade a whole plethora of choices. The entire makeup of the society would start looking very different.

In the context of vehicles, it would shut out the entire market for motorcycles, and stop the sale of anything less safe than a Volvo XC60.

Carrying on with life's activities involves risk. I fully understand that policies need to be designed to reduce risks where possible. But I cannot agree that policies and their enforcement should be, or can be done in a manner which you described.

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by VineetG

My only contention is that speed limits are set randomly, and not based on any scientific and objective criteria.

I agree with all your points. But a car maker makes a car that can be driven on the D-A Expressway or in the western ghats. The speed limit chime cannot be set differently for these roads. How many D-A expressways are there? Just one. 90% of our roads are not safe for speeds above 80.

So the alert at 80 & 120 seems fine for the overall infrastructure. Even the Mumbai Pune expressway had a speed limit of 80kmph, that was raised to 120 & last month lowered back to 100. Even at 80 kmph limit - it has one of the highest fatality rates in the state.

I think the speed limits on national highways should be in line with GNCAP ratings for now. Rated with the capability of the lowest trim. Our infrastructure isn't mature enough to start legalizing higher speeds IMO as a whole.

As an example - the roads after the Pune Mumbai e-Way ends on Pune side are something below pathetic. But after driving on the eway - majority of people are still in that state of mind & go on driving fast on those horrible roads. Why? Because their brain is tuned to driving fast still & doesn't adapt to the changed environment so fast.

France has much better roads than India. Absolutely everywhere. And yet - the speed limit is 100kmph almost everywhere. Very few stretches with 130 (I learnt this the hard way when I got a nice picture of me along with 150 EUR ticket at my Brussels home when I drove at 114kmph in an area limited at 80 in France ). Let's not even talk of speed limits in the UK . Do we have roads as good as France? Certainly not.

Originally Posted by vipul_singh

I entirely disagree with you.

That's fine, I'm not saying others should agree with my point of view .

Originally Posted by vipul_singh

Carrying on with life's activities involves risk.

Indeed. And if someone is proactively reminding me about this when I'm driving - I welcome it. I drive a car in which I reach triple digit speeds without even noticing it. There are much better cars where due to excellent build & insulation, one doesn't perceive speed unless looking at the speedometer. Its fine to get an audible reminder to look at the speed.

India loses hundreds of thousands of people an year just in road accidents. I don't think its a matter of one life in reality. Its an alarming number. I think of the families shattered due to these outcomes. Its fine for us to complain about a beep while we are alive. Those who have lost their loved ones may not agree.

So something is wrong & something needs to be done to fix it. At least the RTOs (or whoever is the authority that recommended this!) are attempting to do something & not simply going on with status quo.

We should be giving them time to show results. If 1 or 2 years later we have statistical data that the fatalities have gone down - they may stand vindicated.

if one wants to take the risk - one can drive faster even with the alarm. One can go ahead and remove the beeper by spending some effort under the dash-board. Just like the seat belt reminder cheating buckles available on Amazon, there will be solutions available at car accessory stores for this also pretty soon (if not already). One can go for that. No machine was ever made immune to a workaround. Its a mathematical certainty.

[giri1.8]

The speed warning system is an audible warning that sounds a beep when the vehicle exceeds a certain speed. As per standards prescribed by the Indian government, the warning is to sound for at least 1 cycle per 2 minutes when the vehicle exceeds 80kph, and then continuously for at least 1 cycle per 2 seconds when the vehicle exceeds 120kph. The system cannot be switched off or overridden.

Source : Autocar India.


So the warning should be once every 2 minutes after 80. City commuters can say what they wish, but for highway dwellers like me, this would destroy my peace of mind!

If anything can be done to save lives, government can ban driving all together and give us decent public transport. This is just silly.

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by giri1.8

Source : Autocar India.
So the warning should be once every 2 minutes after 80. City commuters can say as they wish, but for highway dwellers like me, this would destroy my peace of mind!

Okay that's silly. I will agree totally. When is this going to happen? One beep after 80 is fine. Every two minutes after 120 is also absolutely fine. This is how it happens in my car. There are no continuous beeps every 2 minutes above 80 and below 120. There is just a "Speed Limit" light glowing in the console then.

We are able to sustain 80kmph for more than 2 minutes on many highways now & a single beep to remind once is what is enough.

[imp!]

I sincerely hope that each car in India has an override mod. 80 Kmph by a semi lunatic taxi driver is fast enough to kill. This isn't saving any lives. May as well ban all driving nad force people to commute by bullock carts.
The onus needs to be on the Central and State governments to improve our infrastructure and skill training.

[king999]

100% agree. It’s just passing of the buck and responsibility by the national and state transport authorities to car makers and owners.