[narayan]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

I'm interested to know the overall sales figure too - to know the actual relevance of this 80%.

Agree and I feel absolutely no relevance. This statement from the Lexus guy is typical management speak of having to necessarily quote some numbers in every statement to be perceived as being analytically sound - nothing else.

If Toyota customers are the major ones buying Lexus cars - I only see this as a negative - Luxury segment is all about DESIRABILITY and less of RELIABILITY.

More cars are bought for DESIRABILITY than for anything else.

Hence if Lexus is not seen as a DESIRABLE brand, they will always be playing catch up to the Germans. They will appeal only to those select few well off people who analyse their decisions before spending money on cars

[Axe77]

Coincidentally, I saw the updated ES displayed at the Mumbai airport last night. It is really stunning. I now feel the back seat is actually better than earlier and the boot is also pretty big despite holding a full size spare. Also amazing is how pointless the boot of its 'SUV' cousin is with the spare totally protruding in. Considering the SUV has no meaningful wading abilities and is a typical expensive car that cannot be rough used, at the same price the comfort and size of the ES is a no brainer over the NX hybrid.

I hope Toyota starts building these in India sooner rather than later. There should be an evolving market for this and Toyota ought to be at the forefront given their dominance in India and general pedigree in hybrids. When ze Germans arrive with hybrid offerings, I am sure they will come with better commitment. In that sense they are pretty proactive.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

Toyota owners never seem to complain about the prices as most are past customers and others are there after getting feedbacks from their family and friends regarding the brand ownership experience. Call them ugly, featureless or overpriced, the owners seem to love the ownership experience

I can related to that. If Toyota could care for my ownership experience with a D1 sedan I can only imagine how a Lexus owner is treated.

In Toyotas you pay a premium up front and it in large majority of the cases TKM and the vehicle will reward you even over a decade (should you keep the car that long) by having your back.

As for overpriced cars..IMO all cars D1 and above are overpriced. It is the taxation and manufacturers' profit margins to blame.

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Thank you vinit.merchant. You put it very well. As a Lexus and Camry owner I was almost scared to write here that the premium has a reason lest I get thrashed for scurrilous writings.

We often times find posts complaining about Toyota/Lexus's arrogance and their cheek to charge a hefty price. But I don't hear many Toyota/Lexus owners trading that complaint. Our Camry (stays in the office as the official hack) has done 200k + over about I think 12+ years and the performance remains flawless and other than parts being replaced on schedule at the service periods it has needed absolutely nothing. And of course Toyota's A.S.S, remains helpful and courteous. If we paid a few lakhs extra on day one that extra has been recovered several times over not just in cost but availability, downtime and hassle factor too. It all boils down to Rs 3 to 5 lakhs more on Day 1 or Rs 10 lakhs more over the next 10 years and some aggravation to go with it.

I see reliability of any machine as a definite virtue which has a 'desirability factor' of its own. IMO, there is something desirable about a vehicle that never lets you down. I don't think too highly of a vehicle that requires the automobile version of an ICU at regular intervals no matter how good the pickup, top speed and driving pleasure. But it is just IMHO.

So if and when I buy European lux car (the spouse has to approve) I hope I get a reliable unit and not a flat bed truck lover. Yeah, it will be a M-B (love the new shapes/designs) or BMW, sorry Audi. The fight will be between a M-B/BMW/Lexus.

Now I only wish Toyota and Lexus convert their excellence in engineering reliability to excellence in looks

This is one area where Toyota has to improve by leaps and bounds. Even Honda does better. For most buyers looks are everything. And when Toyota's models have the same appeal and "hotness quotient" as a domestic appliance that's not going to set the cash registers ringing.

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

Should be the least of your worries. Remember, its a Toyota. The technology today is an evolution of their first hybrid that hit the market 20 years ago. No other company has had the success of Hybrid power trains as much as Toyota.

I think they use NiMH batteries in some of their hybrid cars which are hardier but heavier than Li-ion.

A Lexus will never trump a German. There is a different appeal to a Lexus that I can't explain. You have to experience it for yourself.

In absolute appeal coolness quotient & driving pleasure no it won't.

There is something to be said for the European sense of style, looks and sheer presence. For e.g. Aston Martin DB 7/9/Vantage are the only cars that makes me go weak in the knees. To me they are the epitome of automobile beauty and British class. There's a reason why even the most ordinary EU cars are better looking than their equivalent Jap counterparts.

But in terms of fit and finish, reliability, after sales support and the ownership experience the Lexus will beat the Big 3 by a mile.

[ajmat]

We recently met the good folks from Lexus during the ES300h drive. Spent quite a bit of time with the management but, being who we are, they were guarded in their responses

Summarising

1: They confirmed that majority of their customers have moved from Toyota.
2: Sales numbers/ targets were met by the answer, "Without saying anymore, we have achieved or are on course to achieve our numbers"
3: USP's - Brand experience, Hybrid technology, "Shimamoku" styled interiors, low cost of ownership, "Crafted" paintwork - panels go through additional preparation apparently
4: They carry no stock. Cars are imported on order
5: Toyota can afford to trickle in for the short to medium term with the Lexus. My guess, judging by talking to others is that the forthcoming Toyota- Maruti alliance will dominate Toyota's strategy.
6: High purchase cost is partially to allow allow dealers to profit as the low ownership cost + volume sales do not give much margin otherwise from servicing.
7: For the owner, the high purchase cost is balanced by the low cost of ownership - (will only work if you use the car extensively over a long period of time). If your ownership is under 3 years, it might not really work out.

Note: I live opposite the Lexus showroom and walk past it almost daily. Although I do see a lots of potential buyers with Merc ML/GL, Audi Q7, popping in. I did not get a very affirmative reply that Lexus are getting conquest sales.

My brief impressions of the ES300h as a precursor to the official review will follow in the ES300h thread

[shiva75]

Interesting statistic indeed and totally surprising. Why? Because as pointed on this forum quality matters. However, why is Lexus depending so heavily on its Toyota customer base? Why not take on head on with competition ie bmw and audi’s of the world?

One thing that puts me off (and it is a very personal opinion which I find many share with me &#128522 is the Lexus design department needs an overhaul. People spending premium bucks want a looker and Lexus leaves far too much to be desired. Performance is ofcourse a no brainier.

The brand somehow does not somehow evoke the same emotion/reaction when you say “Hey I just bought a Lexus vs I bought a Bimmer”.

I have lived in the US for 9 years and drove Lexus cars for sometime. While they are smooth and light as feathers , could not help notice the extremely boring exteriors and interiors they churned out year after year. Always felt like a Toyota with premium features since I had driven Toyota cars for so many years as well(again , strictly personal opinion). Not sure all luxury car buyers want to feel like they are buying a premium Toyota.

[CEF_Beasts]

Originally Posted by Vulken Auto

Nope there is a lexus showroom near my house in hyderabad. Film nagar a.k.a jubilee hills.

Looks like the dealership opened officially yesterday.