[coolmel]

Many thanks for this matey! Well I'm a stickler when it comes to these things. Firstly for ref, my running isn't much and yearly I do approx 6000kms. I check oil ever so often, along with the oil filter, drain plug or seal.

Never been to a FNG(Bad with acronyms please help me with full form) & always been with Toyota. I didn't write a mail to Toyota because that particular service had become complicated.

Now that this has come up I shall.

Thanks again!

Originally Posted by R2D2

Regarding the 2 litres of old oil being drained out do make it a habit of checking your engine oil level at least once every 10-30 days depending on how much your car is used. This goes for any make, any model.

One thing you can check for yourself is if the car has a leak from the oil filter, drain plug or a seal. Just take a look at the garage floor or road where the car is parked for any oil stains. Does the exhaust belch white smoke?

Also, if you want TKM to address the complaint try not to go to a FNG. Always get the car serviced at the ASC so they don't find any excuse to wiggle out. In my decade+ experience with multiple Toyota dealers they do not cheat on consumables but try to push add on services like interior cleaning, polishing/waxing et al. If you believe they have cheated just email TKM.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by coolmel

Many thanks for this matey! Well I'm a stickler when it comes to these things. Firstly for ref, my running isn't much and yearly I do approx 6000kms. I check oil ever so often, along with the oil filter, drain plug or seal.

Great so we can rule out leakage. What did you notice during the oil checks? Was the level dropping? If yes, please do top it off. Otherwise it's your engine on the chopping block.

Never been to a FNG(Bad with acronyms please help me with full form) & always been with Toyota. I didn't write a mail to Toyota because that particular service had become complicated.

FNG - Friendly Neighbourhood Garage i.e. independent garage
ASC - Authorised Service Centre

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by coolmel

I always clean the marker then dip in again to see if oil is in the range between the two dots. But for such less running isn't it surprising that only that much amount came out?

OK, since your car doesn't run much how many kms had it done before you noticed the drop in oil? Remember these taxis in question clock that many kms in 1-2 months.

And, are you basing this out of the observation at the dealership during the oil changing process? For e.g. the video in post # 1 they show a person measuring the drained oil. Was this done or is that a guesstimate?

If you need to escalate this to TKM you need to be more specific about how, when and where you observed this shortfall in oil level and in the drained oil. In other words the data. Otherwise it would be considered anecdotal and possibly ignored.

Used to fill in Toyota mineral oil until then but switched to Delvac 1 FS this year. Also...irrespective of lil type when should one top up?

Where was this Delvac oil filled? At the ASC? I assume you purchased it at a retail outlet.

Top up if and when the oil goes below the 1/2 way mark on the dipstick but definitely if the oil is at the 'Min' mark. DO NOT overfill past the 'Full' marker. That's bad for the engine. Your manual will contain the volume of oil required to raise the level from L to F. For e.g. in my car it is 1.5 litres. Makes it easy to judge how much you need to top up.

[coolmel]

Originally Posted by R2D2

OK, since your car doesn't run much how many kms had it done before you noticed the drop in oil? Remember these taxis in question clock that many kms in 1-2 months.

And, are you basing this out of the observation at the dealership during the oil changing process? For e.g. the video in post # 1 they show a person measuring the drained oil. Was this done or is that a guesstimate?

If you need to escalate this to TKM you need to be more specific about how, when and where you observed this shortfall in oil level and in the drained oil. In other words the data. Otherwise it would be considered anecdotal and possibly ignored.



Where was this Delvac oil filled? At the ASC? I assume you purchased it at a retail outlet.

Top up if and when the oil goes below the 1/2 way mark on the dipstick but definitely if the oil is at the 'Min' mark. DO NOT overfill past the 'Full' marker. That's bad for the engine. Your manual will contain the volume of oil required to raise the level from L to F. For e.g. in my car it is 1.5 litres. Makes it easy to judge how much you need to top up.

Got it. Really need to go down memory lane now. but AFAIK i remember when they unplugged at the authorised service centre it came out far less then imagined. I DID ask the mechanic but he said sir ye normal hai. Is why i smelt a rat and did not fill oil there. Got Delvac at my trusted FNG and got it done. I had a spare filter so that sufficed. But yes data is imp.

I did do a weekend drive of say 1000 kms and is when i was shocked to see the oil less than indicated. And next day I went for the service. My bad I did not take pics or record but now I shall.

Also: Doesnt oil level depend on variety of factors? Mumbai being so humid, I can only imagine the tolerance levels of all engines driving in town compared to say Bangalore. We are having 95% humidity these days. Crazy!!

[hserus]

This video from Toyota lists troubleshooting steps and specifically flags the dpf for vehicles driven at slow speed in city traffic.

https://youtu.be/N4qwFE8jTzc

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by coolmel

Got it. Really need to go down memory lane now. but AFAIK i remember when they unplugged at the authorised service centre it came out far less then imagined. I DID ask the mechanic but he said sir ye normal hai. Is why i smelt a rat and did not fill oil there. Got Delvac at my trusted FNG and got it done. I had a spare filter so that sufficed. But yes data is imp.

Bro, don't get me wrong. But smelling a rat isn't good enough. If you thought the drained oil was lesser than expected you should have asked the technician for an explanation and even got him to measure it. Next time please record these incidents.

I did do a weekend drive of say 1000 kms and is when i was shocked to see the oil less than indicated. And next day I went for the service. My bad I did not take pics or record but now I shall.

Remember one thing, after the service it is better if you check all fluids and the car's performance before signing off on the job card. I NEVER leave without checking engine oil, coolant, tyre pressure, brake fluid level myself. These can be done within a minute. The coolant and brake fluid are visible through the respective reservoirs.

Also, once you leave the ASC, it is incumbent on you the owner to check the levels of these vital fluids at regular intervals either manually or if your car is equipped with a electronic car management system via the screen on the dashboard. Cars are mostly maintenance free but can exhibit funny behaviour every now and then. So do take care.

Also: Doesnt oil level depend on variety of factors? Mumbai being so humid, I can only imagine the tolerance levels of all engines driving in town compared to say Bangalore. We are having 95% humidity these days. Crazy!!

Humidity may accelerate deterioration of the oil but does not cause it to evaporate or burn. What affects oil more is the driving style and ambient heat. BTW urban use is considered to be a severe service condition. So if you use mineral change it and the filter every 5K kms instead of 10K.

[coolmel]

Originally Posted by R2D2

Bro, don't get me wrong. But smelling a rat isn't good enough. If you thought the drained oil was lesser than expected you should have asked the technician for an explanation and even got him to measure it. Next time please record these incidents.



Remember one thing, after the service it is better if you check all fluids and the car's performance before signing off on the job card. I NEVER leave without checking engine oil, coolant, tyre pressure, brake fluid level myself. These can be done within a minute. The coolant and brake fluid are visible through the respective reservoirs.

Also, once you leave the ASC, it is incumbent on you the owner to check the levels of these vital fluids at regular intervals either manually or if your car is equipped with a electronic car management system via the screen on the dashboard. Cars are mostly maintenance free but can exhibit funny behaviour every now and then. So do take care.



Humidity may accelerate deterioration of the oil but does not cause it to evaporate or burn. What affects oil more is the driving style and ambient heat. BTW urban use is considered to be a severe service condition. So if you use mineral change it and the filter every 5K kms instead of 10K.

Mighty thanks for this! Truly appreciate it. Yes I did bring to their notice the dip in coolant level BUT according to the senior service supervisor it was alright. In fact my running is 5-6k max and I do drive spiritedly. But given the road scenario in Mumbai its more of 1-2-3 and 3-2-1. I barely get to use 4th and 5th gears. Delvac did cost me but worth it.

Maybe these manufacturers use such oil which degrades quickly so that the customer comes to the centre for a purchase? I feel so. And I have noticed with this mineral Toyota the Denso one. By 3k its gone 60%. I feel this case could be prevalent but its now that its been brought up? Never know...

[lurker]

Oil can vanish only due to faulty seals and nothing else. Pure manufacturing defect. All engine components have tolerance specs and if manufacturung is outside these tight tolerances that toyota is famed for, it means toyota cars are as fragile as any average renault, nissan, skoda, vw junk.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by coolmel

In fact my running is 5-6k max and I do drive spiritedly. But given the road scenario in Mumbai its more of 1-2-3 and 3-2-1. I barely get to use 4th and 5th gears. Delvac did cost me but worth it.

5-6k km worth of running in 1-2-3-3-2-1 and half clutch city traffic takes more out of a diesel engine than 10-12k km of highway driving. That + multiple short trips in traffic is classed as "severe use" and can reasonably lead to higher oil consumption.

https://team.valvoline.com/diy/maint...ing-conditions

Note the top risk factors they class as severe conditions -

Frequent idling for long periods of time
Stop-and-go driving in heavy traffic
Short trips (less than 5 miles) in normal temperatures
(and for cabs) Any trips that involve transporting items via roof rack or car-top carrier

If you have low running and such driving patterns you're better off with a petrol mill than a diesel.

Originally Posted by lurker

Oil can vanish only due to faulty seals and nothing else. Pure manufacturing defect. All engine components have tolerance specs and if manufacturung is outside these tight tolerances that toyota is famed for, it means toyota cars are as fragile as any average renault, nissan, skoda, vw junk.

ALL modern cars are manufactured with such tolerances. See that youtube video I posted a few posts above, that discusses the possible causes for this and how to troubleshoot the issue.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by coolmel

Mighty thanks for this! Truly appreciate it. Yes I did bring to their notice the dip in coolant level BUT according to the senior service supervisor it was alright. In fact my running is 5-6k max and I do drive spiritedly. But given the road scenario in Mumbai its more of 1-2-3 and 3-2-1. I barely get to use 4th and 5th gears. Delvac did cost me but worth it.

Maybe these manufacturers use such oil which degrades quickly so that the customer comes to the centre for a purchase? I feel so. And I have noticed with this mineral Toyota the Denso one. By 3k its gone 60%. I feel this case could be prevalent but its now that its been brought up? Never know...

Not sure which Delvac you picked up but if it's not Delvac 1 I recommend you try it next time.

Toyota's mineral oil is well, decent..just about OK like most other OEM mineral oils out there. It'll do the job well for up to 5K kms contrary to what TKM sells to customers about a 10K km drain interval only to give the impression their cars are low on maintenance costs. But the entire industry that does that. Witness new cars coming with 15K drain intervals and some cars in the US can go 10-15000 miles without an oil change.

Anyway, if you use Toyota OEM 5W-30 mineral change the oil every 5K kms. If you use Toyota's 5W-40 synthetic then 10K is fine. Both are made by Idemitsu/Savita Chemicals.

Originally Posted by hserus

If you have low running and such driving patterns you're better off with a petrol mill than a diesel.

Absolutely. +1 to that. With the price differential between petrol and diesel dropping to just about Rs 12/litre and given the higher costs of purchasing a diesel car it makes more sense to buy a petrol if your running is less than 1500-2000 km a month.

[reignofchaos]

Originally Posted by R2D2

Anyway, if you use Toyota OEM 5W-30 mineral change the oil every 5K kms. If you use Toyota's 5W-40 synthetic then 10K is fine. Both are made by Idemitsu/Savita Chemicals.

The idemitsu 5w40 oil is also used by Honda. To say that oil is pathetic is an understatement. My brio engine which felt tired and horrible with it sprang to life the moment I switched to Motul Xcess 5w40.

I have serious doubts if the oil is synthetic at all as claimed by Honda.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by reignofchaos

The idemitsu 5w40 oil is also used by Honda. To say that oil is pathetic is an understatement. My brio engine which felt tired and horrible with it sprang to life the moment I switched to Motul Xcess 5w40.

I have serious doubts if the oil is synthetic at all as claimed by Honda.

Toyota's synth is not marketed as Idemitsu but as Toyota synthetic. Not sure what Honda does.

I believe Toyota and Honda have different made-to-order oils the common being they are supplied by Idemitsu. What you get in the outside market is possibly different.

As for X-cess 5W-40 it's one of the really good true synthetics out there and would probably be superior to any OEM oil. I'll stop here because this would be a discussion for the synthetic oil thread.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by R2D2

Toyota's synth is not marketed as Idemitsu but as Toyota synthetic. Not sure what Honda does.

I believe Toyota and Honda have different made-to-order oils the common being they are supplied by Idemitsu. What you get in the outside market is possibly different.

As for X-cess 5W-40 it's one of the really good true synthetics out there and would probably be superior to any OEM oil. I'll stop here because this would be a discussion for the synthetic oil thread.

Honda uses 0w40 manufactured by Savsol under license from Idemitsu. Earlier they used to use 5w40 from the same vendor. Neither is a terribly good oil, but both were marketed as "low viscosity".

[peterjim13]

This Nippon Toyota showroom / service center in Cochin is on my daily route and I have walked in taking my bro-in-laws Altis for service.

Not sure if you are aware, there was a similar video doing rounds on facebook through a batch of Crysta owners complaining about the same oil consumption. There, the whatsapp group gained strength when some private owners also joined the strike.

I keep seeing either some etios or some innovas with flex boards in front of the showroon, but the guys here are pretty professional in handling such disputes - and keep their mouth shut when inquired.

I remember the guys in Ford telling me that when they speak to their counterparts in Hyundai, Tata, VW or be it any other manufacturer, they will speak of the number of cars with flood damage, etc (during the recent flood) but when they call up Toyota guys - they will never disclose any numbers (even during casual conversations).

I shall wait to see the outcome of this challenge as now they have a group of around 17 Etios Diesel cars there and the whatsapp group has many.

Their question / demand is genuine

"Can Toyota Kirloskar / Nippon Toyota - give the below in writing on a legally valid stamp paper stating that Consumption of fuel mentioned here is normal (1/2 a litre to 5K and 1 litre to 10K) and is not a mechanical defect. And if this goes beyond the agreed 1 litre per 10K the company undertakes to take the ownership of the issue ... and do what is required"

In between the guy can also be seen playing a voice recording from one of his conversation with the sales staff where the sales guy suggested to sell the car as it is faulty.

[lurker]

Originally Posted by hserus

ALL modern cars are manufactured with such tolerances. See that Youtube video I posted a few posts above, that discusses the possible causes for this and how to troubleshoot the issue.

In theory it can have many reasons, including quality of oil, pcv issues but in practice 99% of time it is due to manufacturing issues and premature metal wear & tear causing leakage and loss of compression.

Only way to dismiss leaky seals possibility is by doing a compression test which is what all those complaining of oil consumption should be doing