[mahadev_kc]

I would like to have both as a saftey devices for the passengers as well as for others on the road, butttttt the cost should be less say 20K for both ABS+Airbags..

When I asked about ABS and airbags when the new palio 1.6 Sport launched (after TATA collaboration), I asked the dealer salesman why there is no option of ABS+Airbags in new palio 1.6 sport. The dealer salesman said, ABS is activated only for the speeds above 130KMPH and in india hardly we cross 100KMPH in city.. that was the reason quoted.

Anyways, I've voted for both...

[goldie_malhotra]

Originally Posted by sreenivass

Thats a very straight forward opinion speedzak, I thought the only way price reduction could happen is for the government to make them mandatory. Is there any thing we could do ?

It would be a good idea to have speed-limiters for cars that do not have ABS or Airbags. Why drive at high speeds if you do not have adequate protection ?

Especially for smaller, cost-efficient cars like M800 or Alto or even the 1L Tatacar - limit them to 60 kmph without ABS.

[sreenivass]

Originally Posted by mahadev_kc

I would like to have both as a saftey devices for the passengers as well as for others on the road, butttttt the cost should be less say 20K for both ABS+Airbags..

When I asked about ABS and airbags when the new palio 1.6 Sport launched (after TATA collaboration), I asked the dealer salesman why there is no option of ABS+Airbags in new palio 1.6 sport. The dealer salesman said, ABS is activated only for the speeds above 130KMPH and in india hardly we cross 100KMPH in city.. that was the reason quoted.

Anyways, I've voted for both...

not sure about the speed portion. I thought ABS works at all speeds after driving an ABS equipped cars over a period of 7 years.

[Vid6639]

Yes ABS works at all speeds. Man the amount the salesman try to fool customers.

As soon as the wheel rotation speed reduces to the point of stopping the ABS activates. If you are one of those guys who can feel the feedback the car gives from the pedals you will feel a pulsating from the brake pedal when ABS is activated.

Most of the cars now also have a light which glows when the ABS is on. I have tried this on a hyundai Accent tornado with ABS inside a car park.

[sreenivass]

Originally Posted by vid6639

As soon as the wheel rotation speed reduces to the point of stopping the ABS activates. If you are one of those guys who can feel the feedback the car gives from the pedals you will feel a pulsating from the brake pedal when ABS is activated.

One of my friends made fun of me when I said I could feel ABS working. If not the pulsations you'd feel the lack of firmness when brakes are applied gradually.

[mash]

ABS is a must, Airbags has pros and cons
I have a 2004 Santro with ABS and I see the difference

[Vid6639]

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...tml#post351295

I would any day prefer a car with ABS and airbags whether it's a wagonR which is light or a heavier car.

The car's weight doesnt necessarily mean the car's safer.

With ABS you have control over your steering while braking more chance of avoiding an accident. Would you want to avoid an accident or be in a heavier car with no ABS hoping you'll be safer if you crash.

I'd prefer the former. Airbags work in the event you do have an accident.

In short ABS can help you prevent an accident and airbags will protect you incase you do end up having an accident.

The car's weight has nothing to with the effectiveness of ABS or airbags.

[sreenivass]

Originally Posted by vid6639

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...tml#post351295

I would any day prefer a car with ABS and airbags whether it's a wagonR which is light or a heavier car.

The car's weight doesnt necessarily mean the car's safer.

With ABS you have control over your steering while braking more chance of avoiding an accident. Would you want to avoid an accident or be in a heavier car with no ABS hoping you'll be safer if you crash.

I'd prefer the former. Airbags work in the event you do have an accident.

In short ABS can help you prevent an accident and airbags will protect you incase you do end up having an accident.

The car's weight has nothing to with the effectiveness of ABS or airbags.

Agreement here. A better build means only relative safety comparitively, need not be as effective as Airbags in an accident. If a car ends up crashing in to a truck or a bus, better build does not necessarily help. A better build with Airbags is what really helps.

[Surprise]

Related link

The car plunged down 50 feet, nose first, and tumbled down another 100 feet before it stopped. And we – as in my navigator and I – walked out of the wreck without even a scratch.

Bag that! - Bijoy Kumar Y - Business Standard Motoring Blogs

[suman]

Originally Posted by vid6639

Most of the cars now also have a light which glows when the ABS is on. I have tried this on a hyundai Accent tornado with ABS inside a car park.

In my Fiesta & Safari Dicor, the ABS light glows briefly when the ignition is switched on & then goes out. If it stays on, it would indicate a malfunction.........

Sreenivass, I guess the friend making fun of you hasn't driven a car with ABS (or driven it when the ABS gets to work) - there is violent pulsing of the pedal as Vid mentioned and thats when you should not take the pressure off the pedal........

[rks]

Originally Posted by suman

Sreenivass, I guess the friend making fun of you hasn't driven a car with ABS (or driven it when the ABS gets to work) - there is violent pulsing of the pedal as Vid mentioned and thats when you should not take the pressure off the pedal........

This highlights two difficulities in switching to ABS.

Firstly, you are dependent on sophisticated electronics that many local service shops will not be able to check/maintain. This can be problematic in such a vital area as braking, especially since the electronics can fail due to the poor conditions we have in India (heat, humidity, dusty roads with poor drainage, etc.). We definitely need better infrastructure if ABS and Airbags have to become standard equipment.

Secondly, you need to change your braking habits developed over long years. Since in an emergency, braking is pure reflex action and not always consciously done, it will be very difficult to change those habits. I always tend to brake with a light foot and relax the pressure/pump the brakes as required, depending on the situation and the response from the car.This may scare your passengers at times, but is best for longer brake life and for preventing rear-end collisions. But apparently this philosophy can go wrong when ABS is installed, since the electronic controls pump the brakes for you and so apparently you should never relax the pressure in a sudden brake situation irrespective of the feedback you get from your car.

[Vid6639]

rks, When your braking during an emergency i dont think your ever going to look back for a rear end collision or modulate the pedal. Your general instinct will be to slam it. That's a reflex action.

It's only when you brake hard knowingly that you can glance in the mirror or modulate the pedal to make sure you stop correctly.

The modulation can also be done when your braking hard and you feel through the pedals that the tyres have locked up. at that point you release the pressure.

Incase of ABS you feel the pulsations and that the wheels aren't locked up. This will also help you to steer the car as the wheels aren't locked up.

ABS has been around for a long time. The technology is known to be trouble free. I dont think India's infrastructure is so bad that ABS and airbags cannot be standard.

I feel on the contrary we need these more here as you dont know when something pops out of nowhere on the roads and we have to do crazy antics to avoid these obstacles.

[rks]

Originally Posted by vid6639

rks, When your braking during an emergency i dont think your ever going to look back for a rear end collision or modulate the pedal. Your general instinct will be to slam it. That's a reflex action.

It's only when you brake hard knowingly that you can glance in the mirror or modulate the pedal to make sure you stop correctly.

The modulation can also be done when your braking hard and you feel through the pedals that the tyres have locked up. at that point you release the pressure.

I agree with you that in an absolutely MUST STOP NOW situation, there is simply no scope for relaxing the pressure consciously and our reflex action will be to slam the brakes. Here the ABS will undoubtedly play an important role.

What I am talking about is a slightly less urgent, but nevertheless serious braking situation, where you can either stop with 5 yards to spare or just 2 yards. My conditioning is such that I will probably stop with 2 yards to spare, i.e., I tend to use almost the full distance available in such near-emergencies. As I said, this increases brake life, avoids rear-endiing (but of course must be judged correctly to avoid a collision). It is still not a completely conscious response, but one born of long years of experience and mental conditioning. Note thet there is still not enough time to look in the rear-view mirror -- it is just a reflex that you develop, to use the full distance available automatically. Here is where many drivers, especially ladies, tend to panic and just slam the brakes when it is not really necessary.

So that kind of response will be difficult to change, but I assume you have to change your response if ABS is present. You can still stop with minimum distance to spare with ABS also, but your braking action will have to be different from the no-ABS situation and this is what worries me. Can we overcome years of mental conditioning and change our response in such situations?

[sbasak]

This highlights two difficulities in switching to ABS...........

I totally agree with this.

ABS sensors are quite prone to failure and fixing them will cost a bomb!
There is another point, many people tend to think that ABS means better braking which is not the actual case - so people may tend to drive faster assuming they are better protected with ABS.

Bhpians, could you please highlight whether you came across activation of ABS while driving. Please state under what road condition, speed and location (whether India or abroad) you experienced this.

As a driver I never experienced ABS activation even on some emergency braking (on dry road though). As a passenger, I experienced it once in a snow covered road in UK - it was a Rover 75 cab and everytime driver pressed brake a ghrrr sound came from wheels and felt like car is sliding on ice instead of stopping.

[sreenivass]

Originally Posted by sbasak

I totally agree with this.

ABS sensors are quite prone to failure and fixing them will cost a bomb!
There is another point, many people tend to think that ABS means better braking which is not the actual case - so people may tend to drive faster assuming they are better protected with ABS.

Bhpians, could you please highlight whether you came across activation of ABS while driving. Please state under what road condition, speed and location (whether India or abroad) you experienced this.

As a driver I never experienced ABS activation even on some emergency braking (on dry road though). As a passenger, I experienced it once in a snow covered road in UK - it was a Rover 75 cab and everytime driver pressed brake a ghrrr sound came from wheels and felt like car is sliding on ice instead of stopping.

I had owned a car with ABS in US. Based on that experience I thought ABS always was functional. Braking with ABS is going to be slower than without ABS and I had friends warning me in this regard. As far as technology is concerned I had not heard many complaints. Failure and getting used are true with any technology. We are getting used to speeds in excess of 150 KMPH which were not heard of in early 90s, also have made progress from good old ambys and padminis.