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Old 19th October 2018, 14:49   #46
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Default Re: Why is Tata Motors deleting features from its new cars?

Serious question, how much money do they save by deleting STRINGS that are attached to parcel tray ?
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Old 19th October 2018, 14:56   #47
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Serious question, how much money do they save by deleting STRINGS that are attached to parcel tray ?
Minimum 15-20 Lakhs material cost savings + overheads saving per annum.
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Old 19th October 2018, 15:17   #48
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Default Re: Why is Tata Motors deleting features from its new cars?

Motor Beam is having a similar article with this thread clearly as que.

MB has received a note on this from TML as under:

Quote:

Tata Motors constantly optimises product content and features to equip its cars with the right level of content basis customer feedback, market trends and regulatory environment. Care is taken to provide customers with the latest features both in terms of convenience and safety, yet not impact product pricing, which is highly sensitive to customers. We have regularly focused on providing additional value to our customers both through product features optimisations as well as introduction of new trims and limited editions. Recent such examples are Nexon being awarded 4 star for safety in the GNCAP ratings, Tiago NRG, Nexon KRAZ and the all new Tigor being introduced with enhanced safety and features.

All such feature changes are introduced in the market transparently and a proper process is followed. Firstly a note is sent out to our channel partners, followed by changes in all physical and digital promotional material. All changes are updated on our product websites as well.”


Source


Wondering if tbhp has not received any such note from TML as the seeds were planted here.
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Old 19th October 2018, 16:46   #49
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Default Re: Why is Tata Motors deleting features from its new cars?

Hopefully, they aren't deleting safety critical features. Now that the crash tests are done, what's stopping them from deleting a crossbeam or two?
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Old 19th October 2018, 16:49   #50
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Default Re: Why is Tata Motors deleting features from its new cars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by amoghchaphalkar View Post
I can't speak for others, but the feeling that I get after reading posts of many owners is that they are feeling cheated. That alone justifies the title.

I go to buy a feature-laden car (based on reviews) and then I realise that what I had seen is not what I am going to get. Also, if you notice: the data on deleted features is coming through unofficial sources (Whatsapp groups, internal sources etc.) or enthusiasts with a keen eye are discovering the omissions. The manufacturer, proactively, is not coming forward nor are the sales executives educating the customers. That, in my opinion, is the concern. There is an air of ”let’s slip this in quietly” about the whole thing.
I don't think TML (or any manufacturer, in most cases) is trying to "slip things in quietly and cheat in the process". I genuinely think that bcoz of the complexity and timelines of the entire process (product planning, printing of service-manual, service training, product dispatch, etc), there are cases when salesmen at dealerships may have outdated/wrong information, not with any intention to cheat. Here is a case in point:

I bought my Hyundai Tucson in Oct 2017, it was a Jan 2017 mfd model (identical to the 2016 model in equipment). When I was in the hunt, I was specifically looking for the base diesel variant *with* cruise control. I knew that the Tucson variants were updated around mid-2017 whereby cruise control was *removed* form the base variant. Hence, I was specifically looking for a pre-June 2017 model (ie. identical in specs to 2016 model). Now, Tucson being a premium vehicle, dealerships tend to stock only one variant in showroom, viz. the top end. So I could never get reliable info about the equipment levels of the base variant. All the dealerships I visited in Sep-Oct 2017, insisted that the Tucson base variant had cruise control, and they showed me hard copy manuals saying so (bcoz obviously these manuals were printed *prior* to mid-2017). I told them that their info and manuals are outdated, and to check with the mfr. I also whatsapped the online link to some of the salesmen, in proving my point. These were supposedly well trained premium car salesmen (specifically dedicated for Tucson and Elantra sales).

Eventually, I found a pre-June 2017 (but yet 2017) model at a dealership stock yard, and compromised on my color choice and told that I wanted that particular VIN#.

My point is, salesmen's knowledge is often inaccurate, may not necessarily indicate cheating.

And mfrs (TML, Hyundai, etc) will obviously juggle equipment levels in their variants according to demand, market situation and profit margin needs. It would be wrong to be single out TML here, is what I feel.

So the best advice is: Check the equipment levels on manufacturer's website (which ought to be current) on the day you go car-shopping, and rely on that; notwithstanding what the salesman says.
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Old 19th October 2018, 19:20   #51
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Default Re: Why is Tata Motors deleting features from its new cars?

We must ask dealers to show us the vehicle before we book it, so no more confusions. Take a note of the VIN and make sure thats what they are delivering. If the car has waiting period, this may not work however you can ask the bank to hold on to the loan processing until you see the vehicle and is satisfied with everything in it.

I have paid the booking amount only after seeing the actual vehicle i`m buying - for all the vehicles I have bought new. I went through several dealer yards before paying the booking amount. I think we should demand this level of transparency from dealers and manufacturers, the "Features can be changed without prior notice" clause is a problem.

However we can only see whats visible, if they delete safety or other engineering aspects not visible - nothing can be done.
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Old 20th October 2018, 05:19   #52
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EVERYTIME I come on the forum and see threads like this, it makes me wonder about people's thought-process. These very same people will be quiet when Toyota sells a Rs 20 lakh car without a head-unit or when their favourite European manufacturer's so-called "Tanks" don't sell because no one wants their car to be in the service center for days on end, due to spares shortages.

And are you forgetting that Hyundai vehicles like the Creta and the Elite i20 came with no safety features till quite a way up in the range of variants, until just a few months ago?

Just saying that every manufacturer compromises. What matters is how that compromise affects you, and whether it makes their product unviable for you

Last edited by HighwayofLife : 20th October 2018 at 05:22.
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Old 20th October 2018, 09:30   #53
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Default Re: Why is Tata Motors deleting features from its new cars?

Mod Note : Please do NOT post messages that add little or no informational value to the thread. We need your co-operation to maintain the quality of this forum.

We advise you to read the Forum Rules before proceeding any further. Request to post ONLY when you have something substantial to add to a discussion.

Last edited by GTO : 21st October 2018 at 09:18.
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Old 20th October 2018, 11:35   #54
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Default Re: Why is Tata Motors deleting features from its new cars?

I'd love to meet the customers who think the string holding up the parcel tray is useless, as Tata is so adamant this is all based on customer feedback.
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Old 20th October 2018, 12:00   #55
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Default Re: Why is Tata Motors deleting features from its new cars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighwayofLife View Post
These very same people will be quiet when Toyota sells a Rs 20 lakh car without a head-unit or when their favourite European manufacturer's so-called "Tanks" don't sell because no one wants their car to be in the service center for days on end, due to spares shortages.
Zero relevance to this thread, kindly stay on topic. Also, please search and you'll see posts on each of the points in your post too. Let me provide the first one to you, started by yours truly - Link (PICS : How flatbed tow trucks would run out of business without German cars!).

Quote:
Just saying that every manufacturer compromises.
That's like saying:

1. Everyone jumps the toll que in India, so should I.

2. Everyone evades income tax in India, so should I.

3. Everyone makes unsafe cars in India, so should I.

4. Everyone does paid content, so should I (Team-BHP).

What really needs a change is our thinking. I hope you realise that Tata's passenger car division was all but written off, exactly due to this "cost cutting" mentality which killed their products, sales & market share. Look up sales threads from 5 years back - they'll be eye openers.

Last edited by GTO : 20th October 2018 at 12:01.
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Old 20th October 2018, 13:30   #56
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Default Re: Why is Tata Motors deleting features from its new cars?

How’s Tata motors motor car division doing overall? Financially? Maybe they just can’t afford to make safe quality cars with absolutely ALL the bells and whistles and then undercut everyone on the price front. They can’t surely charge Honda /Toyota levels of premium based on brand equity. Maybe something had to give in.
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Old 20th October 2018, 13:42   #57
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Default Re: Why is Tata Motors deleting features from its new cars?

We bought our Tiago in Jan 18. We were getting a December manufacturered car but still opted for there last piece of Sep manufacturered. Precisely because of this reason. Parcel tray strings, boot lamp and couple of other things Tata had omitted/changed in models from October 17 onwards. I remember at that time all of us thought why the hell will Tata make these changes which are so useful to a customer. It's good such threads are creating awareness among buyers as we are paying full amount and should get complete features.
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Old 20th October 2018, 14:54   #58
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Zero relevance to this thread, kindly stay on topic. Also, please search and you'll see posts on each of the points in your post too. Let me provide the first one to you, started by yours truly - Link (PICS : How flatbed tow trucks would run out of business without German cars!).

That's like saying:

1. Everyone jumps the toll que in India, so should I.

2. Everyone evades income tax in India, so should I.

3. Everyone makes unsafe cars in India, so should I.

4. Everyone does paid content, so should I (Team-BHP).

What really needs a change is our thinking. I hope you realise that Tata's passenger car division was all but written off, exactly due to this "cost cutting" mentality which killed their products, sales & market share. Look up sales threads from 5 years back - they'll be eye openers.
Firstly, what I was calling out was the fact that everyone applies a certain bias- nowhere have I targeted the comment at Team-BHP or yourself GTO, because I've interacted with so many people on this forum, including yourselfand have a lot of respect for all of you. This forum was one of the reasons why I got into cars and car audio.

My point when I say every car manufacturer compromises in certain features is not about quality, but about what features they add and leave out. For instance, why did Mahindra leave out push-button start in the top-end Marazzo? Probably because they want customers who like that feature to gravitate towards XUV 500, which obviously makes them more money. Hence, no car can satisfy every customer, and one has to choose what features they absolutely want.

One also cannot deny that Tata has made tremendous progress in bringing quality cars. They've clearly moved beyond their Indica days, when they were pathetic. Hence, calling them out for past bad quality products, is not doing justice to them
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Old 20th October 2018, 15:05   #59
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Default Re: Why is Tata Motors deleting features from its new cars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighwayofLife View Post
when Toyota sells a Rs 20 lakh car without a head-unit

And are you forgetting that Hyundai vehicles like the Creta and the Elite i20 came with no safety features till quite a way up in the range of variants, until just a few months ago?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighwayofLife View Post
why did Mahindra leave out push-button start in the top-end Marazzo? Probably because they want customers who like that feature to gravitate towards XUV 500, which obviously makes them more money. Hence, no car can satisfy every customer, and one has to choose what features they absolutely want.
This thread is not about features that we'd like to see, or missing features, in Tata cars. While people wish for a feature in a variant, they also then accept what is being offered.

This thread is about specific variants having a particular feature on a particular day, and the same variant losing that feature a few weeks later.

I don't see the reason for being defensive about Tata. As someone who owns a Ford and follows Ford threads closely, I know Ford have been called out on this "variant fiddling" a lot - especially in the EcoSport and Endeavour threads. And I'm pretty certain that there are others who likewise call out other manufacturers about their shenanigans (e.g. VW/Skoda have been criticized massively for their poor service, to touch on your point about spares for European cars).

If anything, there is a sense of "you guys are finally getting it together, don't go and screw it up now" feeling that is underlying this thread, and similar discussions. There is an amount of happiness to be had at seeing Tata being able to step up and offer compelling options like the Tiago, and a general wish for them to succeed, a feeling further amplified since they're a domestic company.

Take the thread for what it is meant to be - constructive criticism. We're all motorheads here - and the more number of better cars we have available to us, the happier we'd all be.

Last edited by arunphilip : 20th October 2018 at 15:20.
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Old 20th October 2018, 15:36   #60
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Originally Posted by arunphilip View Post

Take the thread for what it is meant to be - constructive criticism. We're all motorheads here - and the more number of better cars we have available to us, the happier we'd all be.
I would really love to, but somehow I see it as a reflection of our society that likes beat someone to death once/when he can't fight anymore.

While it's good that we don't single out Tata in that sense, we just have too many similar threads that bash someone and in my opinion the view of us from the outside World may be a negative one.

Just today I posted on the thread about the headlights not being sufficient It's mind-boggling that almost everyone is upgrading their lights to crazy level in the name of safety (oh, the irony). Isn't that the opposite of what GTO is advocating in the previous post? If we don't step in and spread awareness, won't we sound like hypocrites?

Can I at least request a change in the title if we have evidence of other manufacturers doing the same?
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