[HighwayofLife]

Originally Posted by arunphilip

This thread is not about features that we'd like to see, or missing features, in Tata cars. While people wish for a feature in a variant, they also then accept what is being offered.

Take the thread for what it is meant to be - constructive criticism. We're all motorheads here - and the more number of better cars we have available to us, the happier we'd all be.

I'm just offering my perspective, based on how I read this thread. Not being a Tata fan myself, though my family and I have owned three Tata cars, I'm not being defensive about Tata, because I have no reason to be.

My favourite cars to date have been my 2008 Swift VDi and my 2013 Scorpio LX 4WD, that I will be selling off soon

All I'm saying is that we apply an open-minded viewpoint to the conversation

[arunphilip]

FYI - This is going to be my last point on the purpose of this thread, as I'm afraid that my posts themselves can derail this discussion, and I don't want to be smacked down by a mod for doing so!

Originally Posted by prakash_ajp

While it's good that we don't single out Tata in that sense, we just have too many similar threads that bash someone and in my opinion the view of us from the outside World may be a negative one.

I wouldn't describe us as "negative", nor should we encourage that belief. What we should do is build the view that we are "picky". We won't just take whatever a manufacturer dishes out lying down, but will make a fuss if it is warranted. What is warranted is determined by the broader consensus. Vox Populi.

This is a good thing.

It ensures that regular people are better informed (e.g. those who do a quick Google search for a car before finalizing it).

I benefit from similar discussions in other areas - such as mobile phones and computer hardware. Before any purchase, I do a bit of research, end up on threads similar to this - where there is criticism of a manufacturer (Intel, Samsung, Apple, etc.), but interspersed among the fanboy and hater posts are meaningful gems - maybe a manufacturer is quietly selling two different battery capacities that are not clearly called out, maybe a manufacturer has silently reduced the VRAM on a graphics card. That educates me enough to see me through making an informed purchase that safeguards my money. I view it as time well spent.

I'd hope that threads like this serve a similar purpose.

Originally Posted by prakash_ajp

Just today I posted on the thread about the headlights not being sufficient It's mind-boggling that almost everyone is upgrading their lights to crazy level in the name of safety (oh, the irony). Isn't that the opposite of what GTO is advocating in the previous post? If we don't step in and spread awareness, won't we sound like hypocrites?

Oh, you have my sympathies there. The correct approach is not the preferred or comfortable approach.

Originally Posted by prakash_ajp

Can I at least request a change in the title if we have evidence of other manufacturers doing the same?

I believe the mods have renamed the thread to a less inflammatory title. I would still prefer separate threads for each manufacturer, to provide a level of organization (for us readers), and to make it easier for the press/marketing departments of the manufacturers to keep track of

Originally Posted by HighwayofLife

I'm just offering my perspective, based on how I read this thread. Not being a Tata fan myself, though my family and I have owned three Tata cars, I'm not being defensive about Tata, because I have no reason to be. […] All I'm saying is that we apply an open-minded viewpoint to the conversation

Fully agreed.

[FrodoOfTheShire]

This is getting common nowadays. Earlier only Ford, VW and Skoda were doing this, but now others have started as well. Being a facelift Ecosport owner, I was constantly frustrated with all the feature changes that Ford made almost every other month along with price hikes as well.

I have mentioned all the changes in the Ecosport thread-
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offic...ml#post4406601 (2018 Ford EcoSport Facelift 1.5L Petrol : Official Review)

Some of those changes were silently done while others were announced by Ford. I feel the issues are -
1) General customers who are not that online-savvy or do not follow Team-BHP are not aware of these changes. Even if they read Team-BHP official review or watch YouTube reviews, they'll only see the original avatar of the car.
2) Even the SAs do not highlight all the changes during TD and the customer books the car based on impressions from demo vehicle
3) Features get changed during waiting period and many times these are not communicated. So what you had seen and booked is not what you get. Then either the customer has to accept the new car or run around looking for older stock to get their preferred features/price combination

Agreed that not all feature changes are negative. But some of them are deal breakers or lead to heartache after you've bought yours. In Ecosport's case, Ford removed the brilliant Sync3 infotainment system from the mid/lower variants which was a significant deal breaker for many prospective customers of the most popular Titanium variant. Those guys had to then hunt around multiple dealerships for older stocks. Similarly the Titanium+ got 16" tyres later instead of the horrible 17 inchers that they initially came with. That was a big heartache for buyers who had recently bought the Titanium+ with 17" tyres.

I saw TML's statement in one of the earlier posts saying that they do feature changes based on customer feedback. That's the exact rubbish which Ford says as well when asked about frequent feature changes. I really wonder who these customers are who gave feedback that a particular feature is useless and should be removed. Its almost 4 months and I haven't received any feedback call from Ford!

[GrammarNazi]

This highlights the value of PDI. It'd be immensely appreciated if now on the official review could Customise the Team-BHP PDI-Checklist at the end of the review.

Utility features that were the highlight of the brand at the time of launch are being omitted as soon as they realise that regular non-enthusiast customers aren't actively aware of them and won't do any PDI to check for them.

Most people are overwhelmed at the time of buying process because of the sheer joy it brings to them. And dealers have too often taken advantage of this. So, again, I can't stress this enough, PLEASE do a thorough PDI when you buy any car. A hard copy checklist will help when people feel confounded by the amount of checking they need to do. It'll give car companies a much needed understanding that buyers mean business and they will NOT simply accept anything you throw at us.

PS : For people like me (who are more interested in a cars mechanical aspects), such omissions over time are indicative that the brand may have made changes and compromises even with the individual parts under the hood! Checking them will be impossible

Since Tata is a heavily discussed brand here, I know this has been happening at Tata, and I'm abit concerned that I may not be able to fully trust that they'll mend their ways knowing they're not in good financial shape in the market.

[ksameer1234]

Reading opinions here, I am actually having second thoughts on whether Tata deserves to be called out so brutally. For once, Tata does add a few features silently to the models, eg. smartphone aided navigation in Zest, Apple carplay in Nexon and so on. They even launched Hexa XM+ variant which offers a lot of desired features and is actually a compelling option for someone not wanting to go for full blown top-end. Even Tiago NRG got a touch screen and so did Tigor (even bigger on, albeit poorly integrated one) and Tigor even gets electrically folding ORVM.

Losing a few features on mid-variants is fine. Every car maker would ideally want customers to buy only the top variant. What's disappointing is that even top variant is losing features. And I don't mind losing parcel tray strings, boot lamp, bonnet hood, USB charging points etc. which can be simply bought and added if needed. What I didn't like is that top-end Tiago / Tigor loses instantaneous fuel efficiency on MID and digital temperature gauge. This is something that can not be fitted later.

Dear Tata, please spare the top variant of the cost-cutting. Feel free to increase price of top-variant if need be but let the customer experience 100% of what Tata can offer. There are customers who want to buy Tata and are not constrained by budget, why shortchange them?

Please aspire to be leaders and not followers. Tata grabbed eyeballs because they offered features which competition didn't. Take out those and where does it leave the brand?

[Aviatoraval]

I've discussed this on official review page also.

People saying that TML will be saving cumulatively upto 1000 per car.
Tata has omitted roof rails from hexa and offering it at 35k as accessory.

I was waiting to buy Hexa XTA by aggressively saving moolah. Somewhere in my heart I was giving myself more time because I wanted to see Harrier too.
And when it's just 3 months to go I'm feeling that what if I don't buy the vfm product from Tata stable and go for something else.
Infact I use to advocate hexa as if it was my own creation or I own TML. To be on a lighter note " log kya kahenge". But then "logo ka kaam hai kehna".

Cmon TML don't do this, let me be loyal to you. Increase price sensibly but do not omit features.

[ashokabs]

I have no objection to a manufacturer removing features based on feedback or whatever. I would decide to buy a model based on the available features on the day I want it delivered. No point in crying about not having this or that. The choice is yours alone. I do think Tata's has to be called out for not fixing luggage compartment trays without the holes if they are going to remove the attachment strings. Similarly if they are removing the light in the boot then it should be completely removed rather than leaving some hole or fitting. If you remove a feature do it properly and comprehensively.

[hishamkabir]

Mod Note: There are several spelling & grammatical errors in your posts. This negatively affects the forum experience for other readers.

Kindly ensure that you proof-read your posts prior to submission. Also, it would be a good idea to use a spell-checker.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by prakash_ajp

the view of us from the outside World may be a negative one.

If that's the price to pay for speaking from the customer's point of view, so be it. We would rather cover important issues - no matter how "negative" - than be PR puff pieces for manufacturers like almost every other car website in India.

Let's not take the thread anymore off-topic.

[maverickxx2006]

There needs to be some regulation in place as to when/how the manufacturer can add/modify/update the features of the car.

I'm not sure if the process needs ARAI nod before removing any feature. As long as the features are not impacting safety (like boot lamp, wheel cover etc) safety is not compromised here, but trust is. It would be scary if more parts (directly impacting safety) are compromised.

If there are any updates to the car features (upgrade or a downgrade), it must be made mandatory for the manufacturer to publish it. And take ARAI nod if required?

Tata Nexon is on my radar for next purchase. Going by this revelation, some trust is already eroded.

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by maverickxx2006

I'm not sure if the process needs ARAI nod before removing any feature. As long as the features are not impacting safety (like boot lamp, wheel cover etc) safety is not compromised here, but trust is. It would be scary if more parts (directly impacting safety) are compromised.

If there are any updates to .

ARAI are only interested in changes to the engine, transmission and structural changes. Features are not.

I guess Tata cream profits in two stages

Stage 1: Remove introductory prices
Stage 2: Remove introductory features!

[maverickxx2006]

Originally Posted by ajmat

ARAI are only interested in changes to the engine, transmission and structural changes. Features are not.

I guess Tata cream profits in two stages

Stage 1: Remove introductory prices
Stage 2: Remove introductory features!

The scary part is who knows if any parts are removed which may impact structural safety as well?

We need a strong legislation which should be bound on the manufacturers to declare/re-certify the changes done for the product which is certified and is in production.

Like in IT whenever any piece of code in production is changed, it goes through an approval/change management process. You just cant go and do the changes in your product which is in production.

[ashis89]

Originally Posted by maverickxx2006

The scary part is who knows if any parts are removed which may impact structural safety as well?

We need a strong legislation which should be bound on the manufacturers to declare/re-certify the changes done for the product which is certified and is in production.

Like in IT whenever any piece of code in production is changed, it goes through an approval/change management process. You just cant go and do the changes in your product which is in production.

The removed features are more 'cosmetic' and won't have any impact on the structure. Like in IT, there is no harm is removing the comments from the code.
Hope it makes sense.

[maverickxx2006]

Originally Posted by ashis89

The removed features are more 'cosmetic' and won't have any impact on the structure. Like in IT, there is no harm is removing the comments from the code.
Hope it makes sense.

My concern was more towards if there are any features/parts that are removed which you would not know and impact structural safety. Not the cosmetic ones.

Since the features removed were obvious you came to know they are removed. How about some internal parts which are not so obvious?

The whole point is about trust. You would loose trust easily with such silly actions.

[blackasta]

Originally Posted by ashis89

Like in IT, there is no harm is removing the comments from the code.

Had to make an comment - but you must be kidding right?

Originally Posted by maverickxx2006

The whole point is about trust. You would loose trust easily with such silly actions.

Yes - one light here, one tweeter there, and you never know if it's the structural cross members in the doors next !