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Old 31st October 2018, 13:19   #31
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Default Re: Supreme Court bans 15-year old petrol & 10-year old diesel vehicles in Delhi-NCR

There is another twist to this story. Attached is a friends 2002 car which is still well exceeding not only the norms it was designed for (BS3), but even the BS4 norms (at idle).

So if this (or another) vehicle meets BS4 norms at high rpm as well, can it be issued a 'meets BS4' PUC certificate and allowed to ply peacefully?

Supreme Court bans 15-year old petrol & 10-year old diesel vehicles in Delhi-NCR-puc.jpeg
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Old 31st October 2018, 13:56   #32
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Default Re: Supreme Court bans 15-year old petrol & 10-year old diesel vehicles in Delhi-NCR

Quote:
Originally Posted by vipul_singh View Post
There is another twist to this story. Attached is a friends 2002 car which is still well exceeding not only the norms it was designed for (BS3), but even the BS4 norms (at idle).

So if this (or another) vehicle meets BS4 norms at high rpm as well, can it be issued a 'meets BS4' PUC certificate and allowed to ply peacefully?

Attachment 1813453
Actually the puc certificate Also picks up the emission norms from the RC usually, anything after 2010 is automatically picked up as bs4, for 2010 I've seen that it gives options for bs3 and 4.

Of course this country has multiple jugaads that could grant it a bs4 certificate but not sure if the cops/ other enforcers would take it as a proof enough to not scrap the car. All thanks to the stupid ruling by the NGT and endorsement by the SC
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Old 31st October 2018, 14:11   #33
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Default Re: Supreme Court bans 15-year old petrol & 10-year old diesel vehicles in Delhi-NCR

Quote:
Originally Posted by vipul_singh View Post
There is another twist to this story. Attached is a friends 2002 car which is still well exceeding not only the norms it was designed for (BS3), but even the BS4 norms (at idle).

So if this (or another) vehicle meets BS4 norms at high rpm as well, can it be issued a 'meets BS4' PUC certificate and allowed to ply peacefully?
Technically and logically, any vehicle that meets the norms prescribed should be allowed to ply. On the same ground, any vehicle, though not aged, that does not meet the norms should not be allowed to ply on the roads.
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Old 31st October 2018, 15:35   #34
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Default Re: Supreme Court bans 15-year old petrol & 10-year old diesel vehicles in Delhi-NCR

What are the chances of the central government introducing annual fitness for cars older than 15 years?
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Old 1st November 2018, 06:21   #35
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Default Re: Supreme Court bans 15-year old petrol & 10-year old diesel vehicles in Delhi-NCR

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Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
Forget 10/15 years or failing fitness tests, Delhi might go for a complete private vehicle ban from Nov 1 if situation worsens!

Link:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...w/66428882.cms
They should ban farming in Punjab and Haryana if the farmers donít stop burning crop waste.
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Old 1st November 2018, 07:01   #36
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Default Re: Supreme Court bans 15-year old petrol & 10-year old diesel vehicles in Delhi-NCR

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Originally Posted by sibot View Post
What are the chances of the central government introducing annual fitness for cars older than 15 years?
Nil. Atleast in Delhi NCR. I don't see them changing this rule ever now. Primarily because they cannot really do anything concrete to deal with the situation. And last 2 years, they have successfully convinced everyone that all the pollution is due to the vehicles ONLY. The common man, media and judiciary have all hopped on this train of thought.

Moreover annual fitness is going to end up like the PUC scam. You can get a certificate easily, regardless of your vehicles condition by doling out some money.
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Old 1st November 2018, 09:41   #37
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Default Re: Supreme Court bans 15-year old petrol & 10-year old diesel vehicles in Delhi-NCR

Again, case of the government not tackling the primary cause of the problem.

Also, we're a long way from limiting registrations. Singapore can afford to that for 2 reasons:
1. Good public transport
2. Relatively safety for night travel
3. Cheap taxis

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Guys, I have criticized this move earlier, but after continually reading about the pathetic pollution levels of our metro cities, I am becoming increasingly inclined to take older cars out of them.
I'm all in for removing old cars in a phased manner, but I think this is move will not solve the problem at hand. Not all CVs and yellow-board taxis are maintained well. Considering higher running, they might pollute more. Also, everybody knows the danger for bus/cab travel at late night in India, especially for womenfolk.

They should target crop burning and unregulated construction first. Yes, automobiles cause a lot of pollution, but they are no.3. I'm guessing they can't target farmers the poor farmers and they won't go behind the real estate agents as there's too much money to lose. The hard-working tax-paying common man is a soft target.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hserus View Post
They should ban farming in Punjab and Haryana if the farmers don’t stop burning crop waste.
That's extreme, but the government should regulate crop disposal.

Last edited by landcruiser123 : 1st November 2018 at 09:49.
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Old 1st November 2018, 09:59   #38
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Default Re: Supreme Court bans 15-year old petrol & 10-year old diesel vehicles in Delhi-NCR

According to a finding by TERI; The Energy and Resources Institute (TERI) and ARAI Pune, burning stubble in the NCR is actually responsible for only 4% of pollution. If this research is to be believed, this is a big eye opener when many fronts are blaming farmers for burning stubble or 'parali'.

Coming to vehicular pollution, then its share in total pollution created is 28%. What is shocking is that 4-wheelers are responsible for only 3% of pollution. 9-10% of such pollution comes from trucks and tractors & 5% by three-wheelers. 2-wheelers contribute to as much as 7%.

This report was published some time ago, sharing a diagrammatic representation and the links to the information.

Supreme Court bans 15-year old petrol & 10-year old diesel vehicles in Delhi-NCR-untitled.png


Links:
1. https://aajtak.intoday.in/story/teri...1-1038419.html

2. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/65431266.cms

Regards,
Saket
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Old 1st November 2018, 10:35   #39
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Default Re: Supreme Court bans 15-year old petrol & 10-year old diesel vehicles in Delhi-NCR

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
... Car penetration levels in India are woefully low and there will be ample demand for these used cars outside of the big cities.
AFAIK, you wonít get NOC from Delhi registered diesel cars older than 10 years to move it out of the city.

The way I see it. Yes, newer cars are cleaner. But still why tax the end customer for a problem the government needs to sort out.

For a start.
- Why canít there be Proper Emmission Testing Centers, which will give you a Ďgoí only if your are green and not if you pay money ?
- Why canít there be good road infrastructure so that cars spend lesser time in traveling the same distance?
- Atleast. Why canít there be a proper driving licence test so that people who drive really know how to drive and know all the rules. 90% of the drivers out there on the road donít know the rules. Theyíve studied only to pass. Not to drive. Half the traffic congestion will be sorted with good patient, law abiding drivers.

I think I can relate to the true enthusiasts plight in Delhi. Imagine after spending so much effort to sort out all the small nitty bitty details to keep a 15 year old as good as new, only to get it scrapped. When the government and the system is so badly messed up.
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Old 1st November 2018, 14:05   #40
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Default Re: Supreme Court bans 15-year old petrol & 10-year old diesel vehicles in Delhi-NCR

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Originally Posted by hserus View Post
They should ban farming in Punjab and Haryana if the farmers don’t stop burning crop waste.
It's not so simple and agriculture is not just limited to Punjab, Haryana. UP & Rajasthan are equally fertile

Ideally, they should have barred Trucks from entering Delhi and build some warehouses/ Markets on the periphery. Let the CNG smaller Tempos bring in the material into Delhi. Most of these trucks which run in millions in Night responsible in my opinion. Items which are oversize or cannot be carried in smaller Trucks maybe made an exception. And this is very easy to implement.

Last edited by Turbanator : 1st November 2018 at 14:09.
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Old 1st November 2018, 14:44   #41
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Default Re: Supreme Court bans 15-year old petrol & 10-year old diesel vehicles in Delhi-NCR

Hehe, Delhi (or NCR) is getting what it deserves. I sorry for the common man who has to suffer but s/he is partly responsible for the same.

1) Delhi not being safe for young, old and the fairer sex is an age old wisdom known to non Delhi folks such as myself since time immortal. So unless the local folks and law enforcement do something about it, it will not get better soon (though I believe it is better than before but that again is subjective opinion). This hence can't be used as a excuse to buy more vehicles in each house.

2) Public transport is not safe or good in Delhi is an age old story. I guess it has improved a lot but still this is used as an excuse to buy multiple cars in the same family when you could actually do with a fewer.

3) Having more/bigger cars in each home is kind of taken as a pride and a show-off factor.

4) Rapid construction and expansion of the city and hence the 'Concrete' jungle in the recent two decades is another reason for the same. How much has the green cover expanded? Do we have more gardens/trees now than before? I am sure the answer is no. In fact green cover has been reduced to accommodate more concrete.

5) Rapid expansion of the industries but lack of control on the same. Not just air, I believe the water quality is also something that needs to be re-evaluated and at some point you may see some directive from SC on the same.

6) Over reach by judiciary. If the general populace is not satisfied with anything, they should ideally make the local government do something about it and hold it
accountable for the same. Judiciary is not the answer to everything and we will see many such knee jerk reactions if every issue is taken to courts.

7) This does mean that other cities are doing any better. The same story is applicable to many other cities across the country and each now has its own unique set of problems (Mumbai - Traffic, road quality, etc.; Bangalore - Traffic and depleting water table; Pune - Traffic, air pollution and heat and so on)

8) Stubble/crop burning is not the only factor for sure but is simply an easy target or rather an easy shield used by the political parties to shift the blame and escape taking the actual reasons head-on. They have their interest is giving more construction permits, selling more fuel and running more industries

Last edited by Eddy : 3rd November 2018 at 20:18. Reason: Spacing for better readability
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Old 1st November 2018, 18:58   #42
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Default Re: Supreme Court bans 15-year old petrol & 10-year old diesel vehicles in Delhi-NCR

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilch View Post
Hehe, Delhi (or NCR) is getting what it deserves. I sorry for the common man who has to suffer but s/he is partly responsible for the same.

1) Delhi not being safe for young, old and the fairer sex is an age old wisdom known to non Delhi folks such as myself since time immortal. So unless the local folks and law enforcement do something about it, it will not get better soon (though I believe it is better than before but that again is subjective opinion). This hence can't be used as a excuse to buy more vehicles in each house.
2) Public transport is not safe or good in Delhi is an age old story. I guess it has improved a lot but still this is used as an excuse to buy multiple cars in the same family when you could actually do with a fewer.
3) Having more/bigger cars in each home is kind of taken as a pride and a show-off factor.
4) Rapid construction and expansion of the city and hence the 'Concrete' jungle in the recent two decades is another reason for the same. How much has the green cover expanded? Do we have more gardens/trees now than before? I am sure the answer is no. In fact green cover has been reduced to accommodate more concrete.
5) Rapid expansion of the industries but lack of control on the same. Not just air, I believe the water quality is also something that needs to be re-evaluated and at some point you may see some directive from SC on the same.
6) Over reach by judiciary. If the general populace is not satisfied with anything, they should ideally make the local government do something about it and hold it accountable for the same. Judiciary is not the answer to everything and we will see many such knee jerk reactions if every issue is taken to courts.
7) This does mean that other cities are doing any better. The same story is applicable to many other cities across the country and each now has its own unique set of problems (Mumbai - Traffic, road quality, etc.; Bangalore - Traffic and depleting water table; Pune - Traffic, air pollution and heat and so on)
8) Stubble/crop burning is not the only factor for sure but is simply an easy target or rather an easy shield used by the political parties to shift the blame and escape taking the actual reasons head-on. They have their interest is giving more construction permits, selling more fuel and running more industries
Are these your assumptions or media fed news.

OT but,

1. Delhi is as (un)safe as any other city in this country. It gets highlighted because it is the capital city and not a Tier 3/4 city.

2. Public transport is pretty good in Delhi, you can't be stranded here due to lack of public transport. There are frequent bus service on major routes, autorickshaws, Uber/Ola, RTV, Grameen Seva, Phat Phat seva, e-rickshaw, Delhi Metro, Gurgaon Rapid Rail, Noida Metro, Local NCR and Ring road Train (Like the Bombay Local) connecting Delhi with the NCR suburbs, Cycle rickshaw, Black Yellow top Taxi. What else could one ask for? With the ever rising population, all these modes are generally packed.

3. Bigger and beautiful cars are a show off in the entire country, let's not generalize just one city. Posts here on Team-bhp are the best example of pan India bhpians taking pride in their steed, few for power and pleasure and a few for show off.

4. Delhi is no concrete jungle, neither is NCR barring the two cities Gurgaon and Noida, NCR is bigger than these two famed cities. And Delhi is what I have read multiple times in different dailies, it is one of the greenest cities in India, maybe not as much as Puna, but the forest cover is increasing.

5. Industries are slowly moving away from Delhi to far off Greater Noida, farther part of Sonipat, Manesar and Faridabad. On the whole, I see people winding up factories and moving to rental incomes in Delhi/NCR.

And I agree to whatever other than these you have to say.

The problems are not just Factories, but trucks entering Delhi, stubble burning, pavement dwellers and night security guards burning anything for warmth and to shoo away mosquitoes, incessant and mindless construction by the government and the junta, encroachments leading to traffic jams, unorganized scrap dealers and recyclers, burning of landfil garbage, plastic, a rising population resulting in more vehicles, stone crushers. You name it and Delhi has it, the sad part is the officials are either foolish enough to understand these problem or plain ignorant with that chalta hai attitude.
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Old 2nd November 2018, 08:19   #43
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Default Re: Supreme Court bans 15-year old petrol & 10-year old diesel vehicles in Delhi-NCR

Find your cars marked for extinction here.

http://cpcb.nic.in/delhi-nct-old-vehicles-list/

I'm surprised there has been no challenge to this yet.
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Old 2nd November 2018, 12:15   #44
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Default Re: Supreme Court bans 15-year old petrol & 10-year old diesel vehicles in Delhi-NCR

Bangalore wants to ban registration of new vehicles.
Hope other cities do not come up with similar proposals.

Quote:
A proposal to ban registration of all new vehicles for the next two years has received mixed reactions from the traffic experts and public.

........though calling for a ban is a good idea, the plan wonít work unless worked out with various other combination of solutions.
Link .
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Old 3rd November 2018, 11:07   #45
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Default Re: Supreme Court bans 15-year old petrol & 10-year old diesel vehicles in Delhi-NCR

3 years and the policy is still not in place.

Quote:
In August 2015, Transport Minister Nitin Gadkari said, “We are bringing such a scheme that if you sell your old vehicle you will get a certificate which on being produced at the time of new purchase will get you a discount of up to Rs 50,000. For small vehicles like cars, it will be up to Rs 30,000. Besides, there will be exemptions in taxes and total benefits for big vehicles like trucks will be up to Rs 1.5 lakh.”
A very good article on how old vehicles are scrapped in other countries and the Indian context
Link
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