[dark.knight]

Originally Posted by avira_tk

Reliability is something that Honda has mastered, Toyota can't squeeze any premium on that count.

Quite right, I think its about time the archaic belief that Toyota is the god of reliability is neutralized. However Honda as far as India goes isn't that good either, with three people I know having Honda City, none of them are happy with the product, from rattling interiors, leaking sunroof, and alignment issues, I've heard it all within a year of ownership. Japan had its time in the sun for a long time but with reports of Toyota and Hondas sharp fall in reliability (vis a vis earlier statistics), I can now term them as overrated if such beliefs hold up.

Toyota as far as India is concerned has only space and seating as the USP, the seating in the Etios, Innova and Fortuner is the best in the segment but in every other department they are bland as water including build quality. Honda City, well I've driven the current gen and lets just say it was rattling and creaking so much that I felt even the Maruti 800 of a decade back was better.

The era of Japanese auto domination will soon come to an end, or atleast I would like to hope so. I won't touch their cars with a barge pole.

[GTO]

From what I hear, it wasn't a good Diwali for the auto makers. Footfalls & sales were just okay. Lots of dealerships are sitting on inventory and its time for:

1. Manufacturers to slow down production & let the dealer inventories come down. Expect to hear about "maintenance shutdowns" at factories.

2. DISCOUNTS! An opportune time to buy a car.

Originally Posted by Muski

Something very interesting is numbers of CRV sold. It was in low teens just two months ago and is healthy 228 now for a 35 lakh on road softroader. All thanks to the new 120 bhp diesel motor mated with a 9 speed autobox and 7 seats.

Any new launch enjoys that initial spurt. Let's watch over the coming 3 - 6 months. Considering that the CR-V is grossly overpriced and it has a puny 1.6L diesel under the hood, I don't expect it to sell too much.

Originally Posted by feluda86

Honda it seems is not too bothered in the sales of Jazz and it is in the list only to make up the numbers for the other models with common parts.

Dealers say that the WR-V killed the Jazz. Customers don't mind paying more for the "crossover" vs the hatchback.

Originally Posted by HighwayofLife

I have a feeling that Fiat and Jeep are going the Chevrolet way. I don't see how a dealership and service network can be sustained with sales of few hundred fiat cars and 1150 Jeep Compass.

There are about 60 unique dealership owners of the Jeep (not counting dealers who have 2 or more outlets). That's an average of 20 / month which is awesome for a 20-lakh product. Of course, those in the larger cities like Landmark will be doing more, while those in smaller cities & towns would be moving 5 - 10 Compass / month (enough to cover costs + make a tidy profit).

Jeep has also promised them more models. Plus, a Diesel AT Compass will easily add another 500 units to the monthly tally (God knows when slow & lethargic FCA India will launch it).

Originally Posted by ACM

Marazzo is a disappointment to me.

Mahindra will be happy if sales eventually settle at the ~3,500 level.

[deetjohn]

1) Maruti drops below 50% share. Looks like WagonR is taking some early blows from the new Santro. Having driven all the 3 cars, the 4 pot Hyundai is a no-brainer when compared to the WagonR and Celerio. AMT and K10B is the worst combination. K10B needs a gearbox which can help with torque in lower revs, not the other way round.

2) That said, Hyundai went a bit greedy with Santro. I think the car can easily do what the Swift does each month if the price was like 25k less and had space for Asta AMT in the line-up. High time they realize AT is the new growth driver in the market. All the offerings should get AT in the highest spec.

3) I expected Marazzo to climb up with a bit more urgency. Beats me that it lags so much behind the cash cow Scorpio. The Mahindra needs all the momentum it can attain before MSIL begins the onslaught with the new Ertiga. That looks like a bumper hit even before it breaks cover officially. Toyota has left a big gap in the market with the Crysta to be filled by a car for many young couples with children and their grandparents.

4) I hope the JTP twins find many homes. It looks like an extremely honest effort with a very sweet pricing. I still cannot read the response from the market for these though. Its way too fickle to reward such cars!! The response to vRS was a nice surprise. Hope it goes that way for the Tata twins.

5) Amaze is losing steam. And that car looks too old on the road already. Got a 80s vibe to the proportions with that artificial boxiness. WRV will surely breach 8k and more if it gets AT. Honda should definitely do that and not sacrifice a good product for the sake of other weaklings in their portfolio.

6) Oh Yaris, yaris! who the eff is Yaris. Its incredible to build a new car nowadays that nobody wants. Especially when it makes so much sense on the paper. 7 airbags, disc brakes, AT - its all there. But the ones who rules with their heart, head and even the wallet has ditched the new Toyota. Every manufacturer needs a shock treatment like this once a while. Makes it better for us the customers and the market in the long run!

7) Still early days, but it looks like Ford has managed to revive the Figo twins with the facelifted Aspire and Freestyle. Next, they should pull the plug on the Figo and give that AT to the Freestyle.

8) Renault has lost its way. They really need the new Duster and how! Even Kwid needs help for the segment its in. How about a better safety rating from NCAP? Wonder what will happen when the SUV'ed Alto is here.

9) VW is at #9 and Skoda at #11. But it is the Czech who looks healthier and happier of the two considering the 4 strong offerings and the segments it operate in. They have not shied away from bringing updates and new offerings!

9) I think Datsun will pick up further. They have made all the right moves recently with the updated Go and Go+.

[JoshMachine]

Interesting (but kind of predictable) battle in the SUV/MUV D1, D2 segment.

Average numbers in the past 6 months for some in D1 and D2 segment (keeping high volume Compass, Fortuner, Endy, XUV, aside)

• Tucson - 140+

• Tiguan - 120+

• Kodiaq - 160+

From the above, only Kodiaq is listed in the D2 segment whereas Tiguan and Tucson are listed in D1 segment.
While a certain school of thought says that anything in the D2 should probably sell lesser than the below D1 segment, Kodiaq blows that argument away. And this, inspite of it being priced a healthy 6 lakhs higher than D1 Tiguan. And this also, inspite of the fact that all all have 2.0 liter engines.

Perhaps this can be attributed to Kodiaq's smart/aspirational branding and other items (takes me back to this thread (Skoda Kodiaq vs the others))

Originally Posted by Muski

Another interesting data point is numbers of Marazzo increasing to 3800+. There is no impact on Innova, Hexa or Xuv but seems to me that prospective buyers of Ertiga or maybe even Duster have switched to Marazzo.
Hexa is stable at around 750. This is sad for such a competent product.

I doubt whether Marazzo will be able to dent Innova's sales to an extent that will worry Toyota. I think Marazzo is probably a cause of concern to the Ertiga Product Manager more than anyone else.
Marazzo's highest variant sells at approx. 13.5+ lakhs whereas Innova's base diesel variant starts at 15.5+ lakhs. Pricing apart, there is a very conscious differentiation that an Innova buyer will have when comparing with Marazzo. Ofcourse, am not talking about a taxi or fleet owner here.

And when it comes to that segment, the Marazzo's positioning (particularly for some of its variants like the M2 8-seater or even the M4 8-seater) looks to be heavily augmented for the taxi segment and that's where a Hexa, XUV or an Innova will seldom play.

My 2 cents

And oh yes, 750-odd for Hexa is surely sad. One would have expected it to rival (or beat) some of its costlier rivals in the numbers game.
I, for one, am looking forward to that day.

[Palio_2005]

Wonder why Tata's are neglecting the Fleet taxi segment where Innova is strong. Maybe a rebadged Aria will help the game to make different price points of Aria and Hexa.

Same with Sumo which could rival Bolero. This is being neglected as well.

[KVNair]

An observation for the Nano. It seems to be selling again; this time the report shows 54 units. It has been in double digits after many were saying it is the end of the car when only 3 units were reported in June.

[rangarx]

Germans : After reading about the issues in Korean car maker and Toyota's mighty Innova (alignment, brakes, tyre related), I went to have a glance at the Germans, to my surprise most owner seem to be having a great time with their machines, VW post 2014 seems very reliable, service too seems ok ok type. We might see good increase in sales.[/quote]

Completely agree! I have an 8 months old DSG TDI Vento and really love that machine. In every department it outshines (IMHO) the competition except the space. The diesel mill is one of the bests and the car transforms in the highway. Albeit it is too early to tell in terms of reliability, the extended warranty of 7 years from VW is really something.

VW might have a fair chance of success for the international Polo and Vento in India now.

[JoshMachine]

Originally Posted by rangarx

The diesel mill is one of the bests and the car transforms in the highway. Albeit it is too early to tell in terms of reliability, the extended warranty of 7 years from VW is really something.

with your comment on the Vento diesel mill! Coupled with the DSG, it just transforms into a different avatar.

On the second point of 7 years warranty - is that something newly added to the armoury by VW?
When I purchased the 1.5 Highline TDi in 2015, they were dishing out 2+2 years option only.

[PrasannaDhana]

Well, 20 year old Storme selling 200 units more than Yaris, tells the fate of Yaris in the Indian market!

[Yusha]

I just saw the sales figures for the Yaris and realised that I have seen 3 and one of them was in the show room. Saw a black Yaris being driven to the dealer and thought to myself, "Someone's bought one"!

But Toyota probably doesn't care. What's with the Hyundai Eon? Such a steep fall?

[sharninder]

Originally Posted by Yusha

I just saw the sales figures for the Yaris and realised that I have seen 3 and one of them was in the show room. Saw a black Yaris being driven to the dealer and thought to myself, "Someone's bought one"!



But Toyota probably doesn't care. What's with the Hyundai Eon? Such a steep fall?

I've only seen one Yaris so far. And that one is owned by a neighbour so I see it in the parking lot everyday. On paper it seemed like a decent car. Except for the pricing wonder why it's not doing well.

[ramji_or]

Thanks Aditya! Some of my observations below,

Wow! Maruti has 9 out of 14 offerings in the top 15 list. Considering the rest,
Ciaz and S-Cross manage a little over 7000 units between themselves and cannot be termed as dud. Ertiga's number is low as the next gen launch is around the corner and also because Marazzo is such a potent alternative at a slightly higher price. Gypsy with its 30 years old design is still seeing sales figures in hundreds. We shall say Ignis is dud in Maruti's world but it is still selling 1000 units/Month. I do not have much idea about the markets other than India, Do we have any brand in any other market, as successful as Maruti in Indian Market?

Hyundai Santro is well-received. Eon's single digit number might be the result of production lines being allocated to Santro? Hyundai is happy with the usual 3 being in the Top 10.

Mahindra's strategy to have Marazzo right in the middle of Ertiga and Innova is clever. They are definitely reaping benefits for now.

Tata looks settled for now. Harrier seems to be a potent product along the lines of Hexa, Tiago and Tigor. As an enthusiast, I would love to know the JTP numbers separately when the deliveries begin.

Honda's is good with Amaze, City and WRV bringing in the numbers. Shouldn't they come up with the all new Brio based on the all new Amaze already? Why do they have ridiculously priced Accord in their portfolio? Did they even sell one after the re-launch?

Toyota gets golden eggs every month with Innova. Fortuner's numbers are grand for its segment. Etios is taken aback the taxi segment. Yaris would have brought some decent numbers for being a Toyota only if Toyota had taken some design cues from its own Innova/Fortuner. No diesel engine/Lackluster petrol engine and the premium pricing eventually killed the product.

Ecosport is the only saving grace for Ford apart from the Aspire being received well in the taxi market. I really could not understand what is so wrong with the Figo's design, even the beefed-up Figo (Freestyle) is losing steam, after all I still like the Figo.

Renault should start worrying as the Duster sales falls below 1000 for 4 months in a row now. Kwid numbers have fallen steadily as well albeit not to a point of concern.

I would love to see Volkswagen and Skoda to do much better numbers but the market is unforgiving for those who take it for granted.

Jeep compass numbers are declining steadily, it is way past due for the Renegade's entry. Come on Fiat!

Nissan should close shop until they have products that could compete, Oh yeah! already they are there for selling just Datsun's and not Nissan's.

[volkman10]

Medium & Heavy Commercial Vehicle Sales data:

The M&HCV Industry grew a healthy 18% in Oct’18 v/s Oct’17! The YTD statistics is even better; the industry grew a stellar 43% in FY18-19 v/s FY17-18!

Source:

[vharihar]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Medium & Heavy Commercial Vehicle Sales data:



Attachment 1818083


Source:

What about Bharat Benz numbers? I see a lot of them on the roads nowadays.

[vivek_lm]

It's already raining hefty discounts for the Yaris:
Link

But, is it already too late? Only time will tell.