[motorworks]

Originally Posted by reignofchaos

You are not driving it right. If you are expecting diesel torque, you are driving the wrong car. You have to ring the engine dry and keep revs above 3000-4000 rpm to have fun in it. You also have to work the gearbox. Do that and it is immense fun.

The front suspension is soft in the brio - I would not deny that. However upsize the tyres and it handles just fine for a tiny city car.

PS: The auto box is hopeless. If you are driving that then I agree with what you said.

I dont think its about right or wrong. I also had the Rapid and the Brio side by side for nearly 4 years, so I guess I do know how to drive both of them. In fact I just came back from a short drive in the Brio and believe me its no big deal. The swift too would offer similar levels of excitement.

This is a thread about the best of the enthusiasts car in the market right now. The list has cars like the JTP twins, Abarth punto and the Tsi. And you say the Brio belongs to that league? In that case many other cars deserve to be on this list as well and that would make it free for all!

[cogWheel]

Originally Posted by Asish_VK

...But after seeing this, I feel 'most' of the cars listed cannot be termed as performance cars at all.
India is overlooked by car manufacturers in performance car department (at least in lower end of price bracket) by not bringing in proper 'performance cars' in respective segments. Lack of takers may be the reason ?

Maybe you are right. Most of these could be considered "warm" rather than "hot" compared to what is available in international markets. But having said that, these are relatively good times for enthusiasts in India. Given our road and traffic conditions, the power available in many of these cars in stock condition itself is often enough to provide "safe" thrills. With cars like the Abarth Punto and now the JTP, fun to drive cars are affordable for a larger section of people.

Originally Posted by mrinmoy_s

... Among the current list, my choice is certainly going to be the vRS. It’s probably the best that money can buy for an enthusiast who can’t spend half a crore!

Originally Posted by SJM1214

...IMO, Octavia VRS is the best thing money can buy for people who don't want to cross the barrier of 30 big ones.

Yes, absolutely. And for those for whom 30 big ones are too much, the Abarth Punto is the closest to a hot hatch available at less than half that cost.

We may be looking at the last decade (or less) of fun-to-drive combustion driven cars. The Indian driving community has not been very supportive of performance oriented cars. It may be maturing now, but it may just be a bit too late.

I for one, am glad that I have one of the cars listed here, an Abarth Punto. Yes, it has it's flaws, mostly forgivable as it has most of the core elements of a enthusiast car.

[sawnilrules]

While I agree that the Skoda Octavia VRs is the new Emperor amongst the performance cars in four cylinder petrol categories. But, its unfair, not to consider the King of Performance in four cylinder petrol's- The Octavia 1.8 Tsi. While it may not be as taut as the Vrs, but the handling capabilities of the car are right up their, amongst the best in the business, and at much more affordable pricing.

The King, keeping a watch on the Emperor



What would you love about the Octavia 1.8 Tsi

• Clean lines all around, mean business. You can take this car for your business meetings, and mean business.
• 2019 L&K is a complete package now with Virtual Cockpit Display, both front seats powered and with memory function, updated Canton set-up and few more goodies, at absolute no extra cost.
• May not come with Alcantara Leather, but Nappa Leather is not bad either, while the VRs seats are more sporty and firm, the regular Octavia's seat are much supple and softer, offering nice long drive comfort.
• 1.8 Tsi, with 180 horses under the hood, couple with 7 Speed DSG, is a lethal combination, when you are in the mood to fly, it just flies. And when you are in the mood to lie low, it lies low.
• With multi-link suspension at the rear, corners are going to be easy to attack, it keeps the car stable and flat-out, even on those triple digit speeds.
• Happy to report, the service standards, are improving day by day.

What would you not so love about the Skoda Octavia 1.8 Tsi

• The emperor is just 2 lacs expensive then this one, so if you want pure performance and can make that stretch, the 2.0 Tsi, is far more fun.
• Fuel efficiency sometimes is almost south of single digits, if driven with either heavy foot or in heavy traffic.
• DQ-200, remains, hit or miss, even today.
• Cost of few non regular parts, can burn a huge hole in your pocket, especially if the part is not covered under warranty, or the car is outside warranty.
• Parts to arrive under warranty or otherwise can still take some time, leaving you without a car for at-least a week.

Just my two cents here. Do let me know your views.

[octane1002]

Originally Posted by sawnilrules

While I agree that the Skoda Octavia VRs is the new Emperor amongst the performance cars in four cylinder petrol categories. But, its unfair, not to consider the King of Performance in four cylinder petrol's- The Octavia 1.8 Tsi. While it may not be as taut as the Vrs, but the handling capabilities of the car are right up their, amongst the best in the business, and at much more affordable pricing.

Just my two cents here. Do let me know your views.

While the 1.8 TSi in the Octavia maybe a great engine, as an overall package the vRS is the true enthusiast's choice in the model line up anyday. Adding lesser variants to the list will only lengthen it, losing focus.I believe GTO has classified cars based on the best variant available for a particular fuel category. (By that logic, both the Baleno and the Baleno RS would get classified for their different engines)

Think of it this way, which variant would an enthusiast pick for a particular model?vRS, of course, unless there are budget constraints.

[landcruiser123]

For someone who can afford only 1 car as a daily ride cum enthusiast car, there are many sacrifices to make in some choices.
My list goes like:
1. Honda City
2. Maruti Baleno RS
3. Honda Brio
4. Toyota Etios 1.5
5. Ford Ecosport/Figo (diesel)
6. Fiat Linea T-Jet/Abarth Punto/Aventurra
7. Isuzu V-Cross (This falls down because of its high price)

I personally love the Baleno RS, although my favorite car is the Liva 1.5. I've driven the TRD sports version and it gives you the mechanical connection as it is a car for the minimalist.

[amit_mechengg]

Wow, what a great thread. Exactly what an enthusiast wants. A holy Bible that everyone can keep handy while making a decision to buy a new car or to recommend a fellow enthusiast who doesn't just need a point A to B car.

@GTO - if you don't mind can you please elaborate on the pre owned cracker cars as well. For example the BMW 320 E90 vs F30 etc

[GTO]

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

I personally love the Baleno RS, although my favorite car is the Liva 1.5.

Oh man, I loved the Liva 1.5! Would pick it even over the GT TSI.

Originally Posted by GTO

Great review of a special car. The Liva 1.5 drives like no other petrol hatchback does. Period. I’ve always been a fan of the Etios petrol (not diesel) because of its punchy engine and superbly sorted suspension. It’s nice to see the good bits transferred to the Liva, which was a bore in the 1.2L guise. I thoroughly enjoyed gunning the TRD Sportivo in our test. With the ample space, superb driveability, light controls & Toyota reliability, the Liva is practical too.

One thing this car has is superb modification potential. Slapping a well-designed free flow & air intake onto the engine should take the horsepower rating close to a 100. Cars like this prove that you don’t need to spend a lot of money to have fun behind the wheel. I’m just really happy to see another addition to the VFM enthusiasts club.

Not happy with the dead steering or cheap interiors, but I've always been an engines guy over everything else (remember, ex-owner of first-gen Vtec), hence will happily overlook those shortcomings. The design might be old, but it appeals to a chap with traditional tastes like me.

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

@GTO - if you don't mind can you please elaborate on the pre owned cracker cars as well. For example the BMW 320 E90 vs F30 etc

The newest E90 you could buy now will be ~6 years old. Too much for a used German IMHO. At least I don't have the risk appetite to buy such an old European car.

[AMG Power]

Originally Posted by GTO

I've always been an engines guy over everything else.... hence will happily overlook those shortcomings.

Would you believe that BMW actually sent me this as the Spec sheet for M2 Competition:



My response to them:

"The way manufacturers treat Indian Buyer's is reflected in that spec sheet - not a single figure - BHP / Torque, acceleration, roll on - nothing. Who wants to know that an M2 Competition has velour floor mats?"

[Santoshbhat]

Looking at the line up it is disappointing to see manufacturers like Honda, BMW and VW not taking the enthusiast seriously. They have such great cars in their aresnal to attract the enthusiast, but they seem to be least interested.

• Honda was such a rage in the nineties and noughites with their City & Civic Vtecs. But then they were not interested in building on that. Where are your turbo petrols Honda?
• BMW a brand that's supposed to be an enthusiasts favourite, is more interested in improving the ride quality of their cars. The 1 series was diesel only, can you believe that?! Even with the iconic 3 series, they are only interested in marketing the diesel. Showrooms don't even have a 330i for a test drive!
• VW, the inventor of the hot hatch, not interest in serving it to the Indian enthusiast. Despite tasting success with the GT TSI they choose to ignore the Indian enthusiast.

Of course it is totally understandable since our market's priorities are different. It was expected that with our market maturing, and increasing purchasing power we may get nicer enthusiast's cars coming our way. But the next gen is not that interested in cars it seems. Our road and traffic conditions also aren't very kind to proper fun cars. And now the new speed beeps rule may just kill the enthusiast segment altogether.

[NiInJa]

Originally Posted by motorworks

Give me a break! My wife has a Brio and I drive it on the weekends for short runs in the city. Its nothing remotely close to an enthusiasts car. People just keep going gaga over the VTEC. But the Brio struggles every where. Corners, straights. The Brio? Well, surely no! Not in the league of the JTPs, Tsi and the Abarths listed here.

In relative terms, yes, the Brio will not hold a candle in front of Tsi and JTPs, but in absolute terms, the Brio is a fun to drive car. I can vouch for that. Sure it feels dead in the lower rpm range, and hence a dull performer in city, but take it above 3500 rpms and the car will put a smile on your face till the point the revv limiter hits around 6800-ish rpms. The only other car that would match such behavior on right side of 7 lakh Rupees was the Swift (which too makes in the list ). I was so used to driving cars in the lower and occasional mid range of rpms because of turbo-diesels (Beat Diesel, Fiat Linea) and 'city-driveability' tuned cars like old Santro and Zen and Alto that I never knew there is a life that exists beyond 4500 rpm ! The characteristics of Brio can be compared to a sports bike: Average performance in lower to start of mid range, explosive in higher rpms where most others can't or won't go !

The steering is well balanced for a small car and on smooth roads with less load, the car can easily hit 140 kmph or more and still feel composed. So, No, it does not struggle everywhere

Editing after I read the other post as well. It would not be fair to compare the cars here, the question is: whether you feel good when driving a particular car or not. This is not a comparison thread but a thread that mentions which cars are good.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by AMG Power

Would you believe that BMW actually sent me this as the [b]Spec sheet for M2 Competition

To be a little fair to BMW, manufacturers normally do not release technical specifications especially related to engine output. I have seen this with others like Toyota recently when they launched the new LC Prado. The reason given was pending Homologation.

Their website is now updated with the specs and the launch price is less then what they projected before

https://www.bmw.in/en/all-models/m-s...-a-glance.html

[avdhesh15]

The City 1.5 petrol takes the crown. It's affordable, reliable, and boy, is it a hoot to drive! Can put a lot of cars to shame with the rev happy sweet engine.

[RavenAvi]

If we go by those cars who make you smile at saner kmph speeds (120-ish) with their strong mid-range performances, the Tata Nexon diesel (in Sport mode) and the Ford EcoSport Dragon 1.5L really stand out.

Yes, I own them both.

Yes, this is an unbiased observation.

[dhruvdangi]

If a person is looking for a pre-owned enthusiast cars with maximum bang for the buck, then some of the options based on his budget are (considering he's not in NCR ):
- Rs 1L to Rs3L
1. Original Honda City VTEC
2. Fiat Palio
- Rs 3L to Rs 5L
1. Skoda Laura 1.8
2. Honda Civic

But it's disheartening to see that there's no car in Rs 5L - Rs 15L budget that provides any significant benefit over Laura/ Civic.

[Varun_HexaGuy]

Nice thread indeed! For us enthusiasts, choosing the right car is always a problem esp. when it comes down to a few enthusiast choices. There are polarising opinions, brickbats, et all.

Given a chance (and money if somebody can help me with that), I'd own a Mk-3 Skoda Octavia vRS. It's got the performance, handling (despite being a FWD), Looks to die for (well, the facelift's design has grown on me!) and is extremely practical for a modern nuclear family (with tons of space on the inside).

Apart from that, I've always adorned the First Generation Honda City vTec and absolutely love that revv-free drivetrain. My uncle owned one in Dark Blue when I was a kid and I absolutely loved that car. Next up in my list is the Fiat Linea 1.4 TJET. A hell of a car which can be bought for peanuts in the used car market. It's got the looks, handles really well (not with the GC Kit!), Steers really well. The only shortfall for me would be the rubbery and long throws of the Gearbox. But a short shifter can solve these issues by a huge margin.

Next up on my list would be a Skoda Laura 1.8 TSI with a stickshift. This thing's serious fun in the stock avatar and with the mods kicked in, it's a hoot. These also go for peanuts in the used car markets making it an affordable love affair.

If I were to buy something new and restricted to a strict 10-11 lacs range, I'd seriously consider the JTP Twins. They've got the looks, stance, they make the right noises and handle really well. Only downer is that the drivetrain is a 3-Cylinder unit. Refinement is not a cup of tea with these JTP twins. If that becomes my priority, then the Abarth Punto would be my pick. As like the Linea, the gearbox is the only needle in the haystack. This car cannot be bought if you use your head a bit too much for obvious reasons of which one being the uncertain future of the Fiat monicker in India. But this can hardly stop me from buying one.

If an Automatic is the need of my hour, then I'd get a GT TSI and install Bilsteins suspension in it and chug along happily (unless the DQ200 goes off!). You have to make peace with the DSG if you want the GT TSI. All we have to do is, get an extended warranty and enjoy it for as many days as possible. As the DSG dies, replace it under Extended or Goodwill warranty and use it for the rest of your life (not really!).