[GrandTourer]

Not sure if already mentioned before.
What's with the for handles on new cars? I am talking about these.


Honestly, this 2019 Evoque is not going 300+ kmph or even close. So I don't think that making the door handles fit flush with the sheet metal is going to reduce that much drag. I understand these being put on some sports car or supercar, or even performance sedans for that matter. But SUV? This and Velar have both got such handles.

My problem with these? You don't mess with proven and widely accepted design and tech, unless it adds substantially more value over the predecessor.

[bharatbits]

Originally Posted by joe_antony

2. Turn Indicators on ORVMS - Don't find any real use of this.

True. I personally never liked turn indicators on ORVMs. ORVMs are the first things to break on crowded streets. The cost of replacing a turn indicator mounted ORVM vis a vis the regular one is atleast 6 times more. I remember being told Rs 1500 for a regular one and Rs 8000 for a turn indicator mounted one for the Swift. Fortunately, none of the cars i have come with a turn indicator mounted on the ORVM. Even if they had i would have replaced with a regular one when i had to.

[AirbusCapt]

Originally Posted by coolmind

How about its support or functioning while moving an uphill sir?
Because we have a control over manual hand brake.

Hill hold control. That with an ebrake is much better than cable operated handbrake

[glikithvinayaka]

A lot of hate for the Sub 4 meter segment, it proposes some good benefits to the common man. Govt policy aims at reducing the tax burden on ordinary citizens of our country.
The sub four meter clause helps to differentiate what vehicles would appeal to the masses rather than to the affluent.
This guideline then begins taxing these specific vehicles accordingly .
Now when a vehicle is cheap, automatically the cost of insuring it would also be cheaper and impending taxes which a generally a said percentage would also add up to be low.

We live in a time where millennials (and those aged 18-34) are not interested in buying cars. They just want to upgrade to newer personal technologies available and owning an automobile is very expensive.
So it makes sense when car makers take different steps to offer different proposition to still stay in business taking advantage of the loopholes in government regulations.

Interesting read about loss of interest in cars to the millennials.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2...r-generations/

https://www.feedfond.com/millennials...ng-cars-homes/

[shankar.balan]

Why is it that in general, the absolute top spec variant of a vehicle, doesn’t also get an engine option and AT/AMT Transmission option?
If our manufacturers keep touting “Option” Pack etc, then at least for those who are wllling to wait a bit, why not offer the fully specced up version at an additional cost, with a payment guarantee in the form of a deposit?
For example, if one so wishes, one ought to be able to get for example, a 1.6 engined Swift or Dzire or S Cross or Polo GT with Auto Transmission. Provided one is willing to pay for it of course. In the case of the S Cross, they could have offered the 1.6 engine as an option along with Suzuki AllGrip and AT.
Granted there would be a relatively small number of takers, but thats the whole point of having “Options”.

[discoverwild]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Why is it that in general, the absolute top spec variant of a vehicle, doesn’t also get an engine option and AT/AMT Transmission option?
If our manufacturers keep touting “Option” Pack etc, then at least for those who are wllling to wait a bit, why not offer the fully specced up version at an additional cost, with a payment guarantee in the form of a deposit?
For example, if one so wishes, one ought to be able to get for example, a 1.6 engined Swift or Dzire or S Cross or Polo GT with Auto Transmission. Provided one is willing to pay for it of course. In the case of the S Cross, they could have offered the 1.6 engine as an option along with Suzuki AllGrip and AT.
Granted there would be a relatively small number of takers, but thats the whole point of having “Options”.

Not sure of the AT/AMT option, but an engine change will require ARAI ratification again which is time consuming and expensive as well. This will be loss-making for the company because the volumes of the said spec will be much lower.

As far as Maruti is concerned, they live mostly by one language alone - Mileage. We have seen them downsizing (no more 1.6) on the S-Cross as well. The new Ertiga also comes with a 1.3L.

The AT/AMT on top spec could be limited because of the pricing factor where the buyer might generally lean to pick a higher segment car instead of the top spec for the same money.

[Viju]

General trends I don't prefer in new generation cars are:

(1) Positioning of rear door handle: Although it started as a design element to give 5 door vehicles the look of a 3 door, I feel it is not very functional, and in fact, ergonomically challenged as compared to conventionally located door handles.

(2) Sloping roof-lines and window-lines: With the roofs sloping downwards (partially for aerodynamic reasons - to achieve better fuel efficiency - and partially for a sportier look) and the window line sloping upwards, the overall green house becomes small. This in my opinion, makes things claustrophobic for rear passengers. Also, the shrinking rear windshields and rising boot lines make rear visibility poor for the driver.

(3) Value engineering / Cost-reduction: The reducing thickness of sheet metal and glass is alarming in new generation cars, especially those from Japanese makers. Emission, fuel efficiency, pricing target, rising raw material costs - whatever be the reason, cars these days just don't seem built to last the way they were even 15 or 20 years ago. Honda is a classic example.

(4) Space saver / No spare tire: Again, cost reduction, liberation of space in the boot, weight reduction, improved puncture resistance of tires, run-flats - there are a number of reasons why a full-sized spare tire is becoming a rarity. But I am an old school car buyer, and I would love to get a proper 5th wheel (alloy spare wheel please if my car is shod with alloys), and I am willing to pay for it. Somehow, it gives me more peace of mind on a long trip out of town, and I prefer rotating all 5 tires after every 5000 km.

(5) Thick A-pillars: In the interest of safety, the A-pillars have become thicker over the years. But I feel that they create huge blind-spots while taking turns. Hope the car makers move to materials which provide good crash-worthiness and can be of a thin design at the same time.

(6) Pseudo-SUVs: It is nothing but adapting to changing customer preference, but it still is a sad sight to see the slightly jacked up little FWD cars with plastic bits bolted all around. The sad part is they look weak anyway, since the makers stick to the original thin tires to keep the F.E. intact.

(7) Lack of cladding / sound deadening: When a car which comes with all the bells and whistles lack something basic as insulation under the hood or boot, or sound deadening where required, it shows that engineers have been silenced by the bean counters. As an automotive engineer, I believe that designers and engineers would have taken more pride in making cars 20 years ago, compared to now (Eg.: W124, older Hondas or Toyotas).

(8) Over-styling: Cuts, creases, vents, massive grilles - whatever happened to simple, clean and elegant car designs? It has affected most car makers - but again, Honda is a classic example that comes to mind. Just think of the Honda Civic Type R for example - one from 2008, and one from 2018.

(9) The loss of ride quality: Run-flats, stiff (read sporty) suspensions, tuning for better lap-times at the Nurburgring, tight handling, over-sized wheels (I love the look for a big wheel as well, nicely filling up the wheel arches) - all these have led to massive decline in the ride quality of cars, even expensive ones. Unless we go to the higher spectrum of luxury cars with air / adaptive suspension, there are a very few cars which provide a comfortable ride.

(10) DRLs: Although I work on automotive active safety, I find the bright LED DRLs unnecessary and distracting in a tropical country like India. Of course, that is the point of DRLs - to catch one's attention - you may say, but still I don't think it is necessary to have such bright DRLs.

(11) AMTs: Yes, they are more cost-effective and fuel-efficient, but with the scale of economies in our market (especially for an OEM like MSIL), I wish they had brought in slightly better technology (a regular AT or CVT) and made it mass-market, instead of the jerky AMT.

(11) Autonomous Cars: I work for a company which is a major player in the autonomous driving technology, but I really really wish that they let us drive cars the way we do now.

May be I am getting old, but overall, I wish car makers went back to the basics - and concentrated on building simple, elegant, functionally designed cars (a bit boxy lines with large windows is fine by me) - which they know will last at least half a million kiolmeters before needing any major repair.

We have enough of me-too pretenders (hatch-backs wanting to be SUVs, SUVs wanting to be coupes and what not!) in the market. With the big change from fossil fuel to electricity, I hope some of these trends are reversed as well.

[puneeth2]

The thing that annoys me most is that cars are becoming more like appliances and less like cars. They get you places alright, but there's no excitement, at least none for me. This is true at least for us in India. Most mass market cars are devoid of character. Light steering, light clutch, total isolation from car's interaction with the road. Fuel economy is the most important factor. It irks me when someone talks about it.

Faux wood and beige interiors! Why is that trend catching on these days on these MPVs and sub 4 meter sedans? That faux wood is still made from the same cheap plastic and yet it is seen as a premium thing. Not to mention how gawdy it looks.


I agree that most people don't bother about it and car is just a mode of transport to them. However, as an enthusiast, it is painful to see so few options.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by puneeth2

Faux wood and beige interiors! Why is that trend catching on these days on these MPVs and sub 4 meter sedans?

I agree that most people don't bother about it and car is just a mode of transport to them. However, as an enthusiast, it is painful to see so few options.

I completely agree with what you are saying. The problem is that some of us enthusiasts are sell-outs; just look at the kind of reviews from Autocar India or Motortrend or whatever other web publications and youtube channels that "review" cars. They treat their reviews as elaborated spec sheet read outs "would you look at how nice the chrome around the grille is" or some short 5'4" Renuka sitting in the back seat would go "hmm it is so spacious I have all the room to stretch my legs" "the infotainment system has been upgraded and this was long due to be done as the one in the previous models was getting long in the tooth" all boring useless information that is just lapped up by non-enthusiasts as it comes in an easy to understand form. Kind of like playing top-trumps when we were kids with Pokemon cards or something similar. These guys are enthusiasts but they talk of such meaningless soulless nonsense like salesmen at a Bajaj Electronics store, simply because at the end of the day that is what gets them views and helps them get more revenue. Only few good automotive journalists in India are left who talk about the things that matter.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by bharatbits

True. I personally never liked turn indicators on ORVMs. ORVMs are the first things to break on crowded streets. The cost of replacing a turn indicator mounted ORVM vis a vis the regular one is atleast 6 times more. I remember being told Rs 1500 for a regular one and Rs 8000 for a turn indicator mounted one for the Swift. Fortunately, none of the cars i have come with a turn indicator mounted on the ORVM. Even if they had i would have replaced with a regular one when i had to.

Agreed that it is probably against clean design, however bear in mind that if a vehicle comes with Indicator on the wing mirror, chances are that it may not have one in the front quarter panel, this is a safety measure.

I think they should add (by regulation) a side marker in the front and rear quarter panels for increased safety.

[puneeth2]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

I completely agree with what you are saying. The problem is that some of us enthusiasts are sell-outs; just look at the kind of reviews from Autocar India or Motortrend or whatever other web publications and Youtube channels that "review" cars. They treat their reviews as elaborated spec sheet read outs "would you look at how nice the chrome around the grille is" or some short 5'4" Renuka sitting in the back seat would go "hmm it is so spacious I have all the room to stretch my legs" "the infotainment system has been upgraded and this was long due to be done as the one in the previous models was getting long in the tooth" all boring useless information that is just lapped up by non-enthusiasts as it comes in an easy to understand form. Kind of like playing top-trumps when we were kids with Pokemon cards or something similar. These guys are enthusiasts but they talk of such meaningless soulless nonsense like salesmen at a Bajaj Electronics store, simply because at the end of the day that is what gets them views and helps them get more revenue. Only few good automotive journalists in India are left who talk about the things that matter.

I do understand that interior space or boot space is a concern for a family. As you said, most reviewers these days just paraphrase what's on the spec sheet rather than just expressing how they feel about the vehicle.
Shumi from Overdrive does it brilliantly in his motorcycle reviews. I haven't come across anyone like that for car reviews.

It is just flashy video editing and some spec sheet gibberish these days.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by puneeth2

The thing that annoys me most is that cars are becoming more like appliances and less like cars. They get you places alright, but there's no excitement, at least none for me. This is true at least for us in India. Most mass market cars are devoid of character. Light steering, light clutch, total isolation from car's interaction with the road. Fuel economy is the most important factor. It irks me when someone talks about it.

Faux wood and beige interiors! Why is that trend catching on these days on these MPVs and sub 4 meter sedans? That faux wood is still made from the same cheap plastic and yet it is seen as a premium thing. Not to mention how gawdy it looks.


I agree that most people don't bother about it and car is just a mode of transport to them. However, as an enthusiast, it is painful to see so few options.

Lord Clarkson regularly used to make these humorous comparisons with much evil snarkiness thrown in...Like “driving a HYUNDAI or KIA is like driving a Washing Machine” etc.
But yes. These mainstream middle of the road cars are soul less. Completely.

[pavi]

Originally Posted by bharatbits

True. I personally never liked turn indicators on ORVMs. ORVMs are the first things to break on crowded streets. The cost of replacing a turn indicator mounted ORVM vis a vis the regular one is atleast 6 times more. I remember being told Rs 1500 for a regular one and Rs 8000 for a turn indicator mounted one for the Swift. Fortunately, none of the cars i have come with a turn indicator mounted on the ORVM. Even if they had i would have replaced with a regular one when i had to.

As you mentioned Swift, it mostly depends on the design. For a Swift or any Maruti car, the turn indicators mounted on ORVM bulges out, hence even a slight hit can damage the indicator. But consider the designs by Honda, the indicators are recessed in. So it never get affected during the hits that we usually come across in crowded cities. The ‘damage to pocket’ completely depends on your fate.

[Ashish0485]

Intriguing topic:
Here's my list:
1) Increase in car size (generation after generation). For example: The next BMW 3-series length would be very close to older 5-series. Obviously one gets more space but shorter wheelbase cars loose the fun element after being elongated.

2) Shorter tech release cycles: Cars quickly start looking old because the interiors (along with tech) are getting refreshed in quick cycles. So, new Honda Amaze has more refreshed features than last generation Honda city. This is also leading people to change cars more frequently.

3) Emerging tech is useful, at the same time unreliable: There are so many moving parts that there is something or the other issue that will keep bothering you in a new car. The next day after taking delivery of my Octavia vRS, there were notification that start-stop system is not working properly. This takes away all the happiness and you are worried about getting it fixed rather than enjoying your ride. I know it has its benefits but somehow it's fine not to be told about all trivial stuff wrong in my car.
4) Manual gearbox getting diminished from sub-luxury and luxury segment: Yeah I know automatic gearbox is the what everyone wants. Indian market is an inflection point so, limited demand doesn't allow manufacturers to have both gear options available for customers.

[pavi]

Originally Posted by GrandTourer

Not sure if already mentioned before.
What's with the for handles on new cars? I am talking about these.
Attachment 1821946

Honestly, this 2019 Evoque is not going 300+ kmph or even close. So I don't think that making the door handles fit flush with the sheet metal is going to reduce that much drag. I understand these being put on some sports car or supercar, or even performance sedans for that matter. But SUV? This and Velar have both got such handles.

I think it is intended for only one thing 'to stand out', not intended to reduce drag as such, otherwise this would have found place in a Bugatti Chiron. Please find the Chiron pic below.