Team-BHP > The Indian Car Scene


Closed Thread
 
266,502 views Search this Thread
Old 10th January 2019, 14:12   #106
Distinguished - BHPian
 
audioholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: BengaLuru
Posts: 5,545
Thanked: 18,565 Times
re: Next-gen Maruti WagonR spied. Edit: Launched @ Rs. 4.19 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by adneeraj View Post
I saw this video today and I don't understand why our auto journalists don't call a spade a spade.
So much beating around the bush, crowd pleasing words. Only thing mentioned was the quality of the dash and the absence of adjustable headrests. Are they even taking about the quality of sheet metal used?
Just that it's wider, has a bigger boot and has a longer wheelbase.. So the Indian junta has to lap it up because it is something made by Maruti.
What do you want to decide? The sheet metal is thin? How do you decide that? By pushing your finger in and telling "Hey there is a dent". And then what do you declare? That the car is unsafe? - I dont think thats how you call a spade a spade. A sane mediaperson cant do that since it should be backed by some evidence. Else they will have the manufacturers get behind them. All they can do at most is to bring in reference to crash tests and so which they again avoid. They have been pretty straightforward at what is lacking in the car, which is pretty obvious and no one can argue that the dashboard is not bland, or that the Tacho is not absent. At the same time, the news of failed crash tests and ratings are pretty widely circulated by the media since there is concrete evidence that something is wrong. So, it is better to judge when there is proper evidence.

Last edited by audioholic : 10th January 2019 at 14:13.
audioholic is online now   (10) Thanks
Old 10th January 2019, 14:31   #107
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Leoshashi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: India
Posts: 5,675
Thanked: 41,852 Times
re: Next-gen Maruti WagonR spied. Edit: Launched @ Rs. 4.19 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by adneeraj View Post
I saw this video today and I don't understand why our auto journalists don't call a spade a spade.
So much beating around the bush, crowd pleasing words. Are they even taking about the quality of sheet metal used?
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
What do you want to decide? The sheet metal is thin? How do you decide that? By pushing your finger in and telling "Hey there is a dent". And then what do you declare? That the car is unsafe? - I dont think thats how you call a spade a spade.
+1 to that. This finger test is one of the most incorrect way of testing build quality. And guess what, manufacturers can easily fix that with a small patch. The same metal won't flex then, but will it become any safer??

Let the Crash results come, then any discussion will be meaningful.

Had posted this on Ertiga Thread too, and looks like I'll have to post it here as well.

Quote:
Guys, concluding about body sheet metal thickness by testing the flex can be very misleading.

Today Auto Manufacturers are extensively using Structural patches to control excessive flexing of thinner sheet metal. The Marutis which we consider as well built, like the Ritz, SX4, S Cross etc all have such patches on the inside of panels.

Hence it might be possible that the metal is still thin, but it won't flex due to such patches.
Next-gen Maruti WagonR spied. Edit: Launched @ Rs. 4.19 lakhs-20190103_042528.jpg



Regards
Shashi
Leoshashi is offline   (13) Thanks
Old 10th January 2019, 14:50   #108
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Jaipur
Posts: 679
Thanked: 1,778 Times
re: Next-gen Maruti WagonR spied. Edit: Launched @ Rs. 4.19 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leoshashi View Post
+1 to that. This finger test is one of the most incorrect way of testing build quality. And guess what, manufacturers can easily fix that with a small patch. The same metal won't flex then, but will it become any safer??
But Shashi, not everyone who complaints about thin sheet metal is pissed just because he thinks his car is less safer. Some are simply worried about tiny dents and dings that comes in so easily because the body panels feel severely 'light'. And it is concerning as well because of the dense traffic conditions we have, and moreover people do not respect somebody else's property unless its been parked in a closed garage (not everyone has the privilege of that).

The patches which you mention should be there in the cars coming from factory itself. Wish it was possible to just apply them in a DIY style

Last edited by Sherlocked : 10th January 2019 at 15:18.
Sherlocked is offline   (10) Thanks
Old 10th January 2019, 15:00   #109
Distinguished - BHPian
 
ashis89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 3,322
Thanked: 10,083 Times
re: Next-gen Maruti WagonR spied. Edit: Launched @ Rs. 4.19 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherlocked View Post
But Shashi, not everyone who complaints about thin sheet metal is pissed just because he thinks its less safer. Some are genuinely worried about tiny dents and dings that comes in so easily because the body panels feel severely 'light'. And it is concerning as well because of the dense traffic conditions we have, and moreover people do not respect somebody else's property unless its been parked in a closed garage (not everyone has the privilege of that).
+1.

Over time, small impacts such as stone chips, brushed by a bike handle, leaning against the car and similar, all these add up to make the body panels uneven. It looks very bad. But if you look at them, most of these are very minor and don't need any denting job. I have seen this on my WagonR's bonnet and front door panels and also on my friend's Baleno. Crash test aside, slightly stronger panels would ensure lesser damage in case of such small shunts.

Also I feel the WagonR needs more weight (though the new gen is shedding weight again). Due to low weight and tall boy nature, it doesn't feel sure footed on any windy day. It almost gave me a heartache one fine day on the highway.
ashis89 is offline   (4) Thanks
Old 10th January 2019, 15:20   #110
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Leoshashi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: India
Posts: 5,675
Thanked: 41,852 Times
re: Next-gen Maruti WagonR spied. Edit: Launched @ Rs. 4.19 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherlocked View Post
But Shashi, not everyone who complaints about thin sheet metal is pissed just because he thinks its less safer. Some are genuinely worried about tiny dents and dings that comes in so easily because the body panels feel severely 'light'. And it is concerning as well because of the dense traffic conditions we have, and moreover people do not respect somebody else's property unless its been parked in a closed garage (not everyone has the privilege of that).
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashis89 View Post
+1.

Over time, small impacts such as stone chips, brushed by a bike handle, leaning against the car and similar, all these add up to make the body panels uneven. It looks very bad. But if you look at them, most of these are very minor and don't need any denting job. I have seen this on my WagonR's bonnet and front door panels and also on my friend's Baleno. Crash test aside, slightly stronger panels would ensure lesser damage in case of such small shunts.

Also I feel the WagonR needs more weight (though the new gen is shedding weight again). Due to low weight and tall boy nature, it doesn't feel sure footed on any windy day. It almost gave me a heartache one fine day on the highway.
A very valid point indeed. But isn't this more like a norm across manufacturers in interests of weight saving and fuel economy. Heck, even the Toyota Innova suffers from this issue.

This I believe is more of a culture thing. For example, the Japs will be built light with an eye on fuel economy. The Europeans will have a more solid feel, and people shop as per their needs. Our market hasn't been very kind to makers who try to change their basics. A lightly built 2nd gen Figo was not received as well by Ford Purists, whereas Maruti loyalists hated the poor fuel economy of the Heavy SX4. Again, this thing is good only as long as the manufacturers don't compromise on safety. A very good example of a light yet safe car is the Etios Liva. I hope you get the point.

As long as a Model is safe(which can only be concluded by a crash test), testing build quality using such crude ways(finger test, door thud etc) can be very misleading. I learnt it the hard way, the thud sound of a door closing depends mostly on the quality of hinges, stopper, weatherstrip, striker etc used, and not the sheetmetal itself. Just an example.

However, maintaining such cars with thin sheet metal is a nightmare in our conditions. My dad's official Crysta has numerous tiny dings and ripples all across the body, and the driver is absolutely clueless about it.
Leoshashi is offline   (11) Thanks
Old 10th January 2019, 19:58   #111
BHPian
 
adneeraj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Pune
Posts: 175
Thanked: 384 Times
re: Next-gen Maruti WagonR spied. Edit: Launched @ Rs. 4.19 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
What do you want to decide?...
Well, I don't mean to say that they "declare" that it is unsafe. I understand they cannot do that. I'm sure even Maruti would be sane enough to roll out a car that barely passes the legal requirements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leoshashi View Post
This finger test is one of the most incorrect way of testing build quality
And I agree to this too. But as Sherlocked mentioned, tiny dents and dings start appearing magically within weeks. Even a stone that flies off the road because of a biker going over it causes good ding you'd have to live with forever.

All I wanted to point out is that our media isn't matured (read gutsy) enough to say it out loud that "the car feels tinny", "so much road noise on a car that costs so much" or "blatant cost-cutting on a 5-6 lac rupee car". The words are always neutral and all cars are good!!
Just for comparison, take any Carwow review on YouTube, check the Celerio or the Hyundai i10 so we can relate to cars being sold here. The host Mat Watson is so blunt on how the car is and still says that in a way not demeaning the car or the manufacturer itself.

It seems that everyone has come to terms that anything A1 and A2 segment is going to be a compromise in all areas, sparing a few genuinely good cars. The entry level starting with the cheapest cars like the Nano, Kwid or the Alto are bound to see a lot of cost cutting all around; and it is expected too. A2 segment and above do not deserve that treatment - definitely not with the money one needs to shell for those - esp. in the higher variants.

I know it is all a rant and maybe I could be asked to go get a German
But I feel terrible that companies get away (with profits) doing something like this.
adneeraj is offline   (4) Thanks
Old 10th January 2019, 23:27   #112
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Delhi / Nagoya
Posts: 604
Thanked: 2,246 Times
re: Next-gen Maruti WagonR spied. Edit: Launched @ Rs. 4.19 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by adneeraj View Post

It seems that everyone has come to terms that anything A1 and A2 segment is going to be a compromise in all areas, sparing a few genuinely good cars. The entry level starting with the cheapest cars like the Nano, Kwid or the Alto are bound to see a lot of cost cutting all around; and it is expected too. A2 segment and above do not deserve that treatment - definitely not with the money one needs to shell for those - esp. in the higher variants.
Well, I guess things would be teeny weeny easier for you to digest if I told you that Japanese makers do not differentiate between A1 & A2 segments. I work with them and the Celerios, Wagon-Rs, and Altos have the same basic philosophy. They only have a different Hat, i.e. body shape. So, of course you find all of them to have similar cost cutting.
When we move to B segment and higher, things change but philosophy vis-a-vis outer skin doesn't change, everything else does.
This is just my personal opinion.
Carma2017 is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 10th January 2019, 23:49   #113
Team-BHP Support
 
Vid6639's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 17,686
Thanked: 42,878 Times
re: Next-gen Maruti WagonR spied. Edit: Launched @ Rs. 4.19 lakhs

I was expecting this type of design on the WagonR cause then the EV version would be a simpler update.

Next-gen Maruti WagonR spied. Edit: Launched @ Rs. 4.19 lakhs-img20181120wa0006.jpg

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...s-india-2.html

Somehow the above design works for me but the one here on this thread they are launching is confused. Why did the headlights have to be round when the entire design is boxy. That was the appeal of the initial WagonR.

What I am really looking forward is the K12 engine in this small car. Anyone who thought the Ignis was expensive now has an easy option to consider.
Vid6639 is offline   (6) Thanks
Old 11th January 2019, 12:09   #114
BHPian
 
Rshrey22's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Delhi
Posts: 340
Thanked: 648 Times
re: Next-gen Maruti WagonR spied. Edit: Launched @ Rs. 4.19 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
What I am really looking forward is the K12 engine in this small car. Anyone who thought the Ignis was expensive now has an easy option to consider.
That might actually not be the case!

MS will charge a premium for the k12 variant for sure. It's like they have an excuse to charge extra as they are offering something premium for the first time in the segment.

I feel that even a Delta variant of Ignis will be cheaper than the K12 ZXI variant of the Waggy.

I might be deviating a bit here but I feel that buying a top model (Asta) Santro makes even more sense now! You get the best of both worlds, good space, nice interiors (which waggy does not have), smooth 4 cyl engine (plus the 1.1 epsilon is a bullet proof motor, took our old santro to 1,80,000kms), spacious seating and dual airbags with all the other bells and whistles.

Last edited by Rshrey22 : 11th January 2019 at 12:12.
Rshrey22 is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 12th January 2019, 09:18   #115
Team-BHP Support
 
CrAzY dRiVeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bangalore / TVM
Posts: 16,675
Thanked: 69,453 Times
re: Next-gen Maruti WagonR spied. Edit: Launched @ Rs. 4.19 lakhs

Similarities with Ignis base variant, minus the chrome?

Next-gen Maruti WagonR spied. Edit: Launched @ Rs. 4.19 lakhs-img20190103wa0003.jpg

Next-gen Maruti WagonR spied. Edit: Launched @ Rs. 4.19 lakhs-marutiignishybridatspiedcompressed.jpg
CrAzY dRiVeR is offline   (4) Thanks
Old 12th January 2019, 09:41   #116
BANNED
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Cochin
Posts: 1,062
Thanked: 2,058 Times
re: Next-gen Maruti WagonR spied. Edit: Launched @ Rs. 4.19 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherlocked View Post
The patches which you mention should be there in the cars coming from factory itself. Wish it was possible to just apply them in a DIY style
It is very much possible. You can buying damping sheets and apply the same. I have applied them on my Honda City with my limited knowledge in this matter. Made a crude recording of the same below.

pavi is offline  
Old 14th January 2019, 11:41   #117
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: 》
Posts: 476
Thanked: 2,231 Times
re: Next-gen Maruti WagonR spied. Edit: Launched @ Rs. 4.19 lakhs


Official Bookings open for New Wagon R 2019

Next-gen Maruti WagonR spied. Edit: Launched @ Rs. 4.19 lakhs-screenshot_20190114120928_chrome.jpg

Source

Last edited by JS Kwt : 14th January 2019 at 11:43.
JS Kwt is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 14th January 2019, 12:41   #118
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: --
Posts: 22,204
Thanked: 63,542 Times
re: Next-gen Maruti WagonR spied. Edit: Launched @ Rs. 4.19 lakhs

Press Release from Maruti Suzuki on WagonR,

Next-gen Maruti WagonR spied. Edit: Launched @ Rs. 4.19 lakhs-1.jpg

Next-gen Maruti WagonR spied. Edit: Launched @ Rs. 4.19 lakhs-2.jpg

Next-gen Maruti WagonR spied. Edit: Launched @ Rs. 4.19 lakhs-3.jpg
volkman10 is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 14th January 2019, 12:53   #119
Team-BHP Support
 
CrAzY dRiVeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bangalore / TVM
Posts: 16,675
Thanked: 69,453 Times
re: Next-gen Maruti WagonR spied. Edit: Launched @ Rs. 4.19 lakhs

So the WagonR is indeed on the HEARTECT platform - No wonder the wheelbase is exact same as Ignis, and the engine bay is able to accommodate the 1.2 petrol now.

Hopefully that takes care of some of the tallboy handling nervousness!

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 14th January 2019 at 12:55.
CrAzY dRiVeR is offline   (3) Thanks
Old 14th January 2019, 13:31   #120
Senior - BHPian
 
AdityaDeane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Manali Dehradun
Posts: 1,168
Thanked: 3,596 Times
re: Next-gen Maruti WagonR spied. Edit: Launched @ Rs. 4.19 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
Press Release from Maruti Suzuki on WagonR,

Attachment 1837181

Attachment 1837182

Attachment 1837183
So, can we assume that the LPG variants will also not launch at launch? Sad to see only Driver Side Airbag as standard fitment and not dual airbags.
AdityaDeane is offline  
Closed Thread

Most Viewed
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Copyright 2000 - 2023, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks