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Old 3rd April 2019, 10:42   #31
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

Crossovers/mini SUV's are much more practical option given our road conditions. Also worthwhile to note down that an average car buyer does much more out station trips in car than earlier. A vehicle with good clearance is a such a confidence booster. Add to this the TREND world over, majority of the market is aspiring for SUV.
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Old 3rd April 2019, 10:52   #32
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

C2 sedan volumes are stagnating. I believe, mainly due to lot of crossover options available in the market. Issue with any sedan is lower ground clearance and average ability to tackle Indian roads.
Advantages for C2 sedans are good space, driving dynamics, bigger boot & feature rich cabin. Crossovers like Creta & Kicks offers all of these along with higher ground clearance. Ride quality in Nissan Kicks is stupendous.
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Old 3rd April 2019, 18:08   #33
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

The C2 segment sedans, by virtue of positioning, are intended to target buyers from upper middle class of the social spectrum. Albeit, used as a display of purchase power to the external world, the buyer however at the back end does extensive home work with regard to value for money proposition with regards to his choices.

Walking back 10 years in time the C2 segment contenders be it Honda City, Hyundai Verna, Fiat Linea, Chevy Optra or a Ford Fiesta they were priced roughly between 7 lakhs to 9.5 lakhs ex showroom. They were simple machines with robust mechanicals and justified each penny. The suvís in this class viz, Scorpio et al were crude, unrefined and unappealing. It therefore was a very wise and sensible decision to buy a C2 segment sedan.

Coming forward to this day, the choices are plenty in terms of body style and functionality. The Sedans have emerged more in terms of electronic gadgetry than utilitarian value. The Verna for example can turn claustrophobic even today for the rear seat passengers. Besides a few C2 segment sedans can cost in excess of Rs 15 lakhs which is dangerously close to the territory of some D1 segment cars. Other segments viz B2, C1 and D1 have emerged by redefining their attributes in terms of ownership experience, comfort and value for money. An affordable D1 such as the Compass or a comfortable C1 such as new Dzire, Amaze or a recent B2 such as Jazz or a Baleno, they are all there.

All these things have led the prospective buyers to explore other alternatives that are available within the same price band but across various segments and body styles, as long as their requirements are fulfilled. Nonetheless, the C2 sedans by virtue of uniqueness in terms of passenger space (ask a Ciaz owner to know what it means) or matured appearance, they are essential part of the car market. They are here to stay and will always find a faithful buyer no matter what the market statistics indicate or the market dynamics shift sways to.
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Old 3rd April 2019, 21:16   #34
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

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Originally Posted by PrideRed View Post
Crossovers/mini SUV's are much more practical option given our road conditions. Also worthwhile to note down that an average car buyer does much more out station trips in car than earlier. A vehicle with good clearance is a such a confidence booster. Add to this the TREND world over, majority of the market is aspiring for SUV.
Thatís one important reason we bought CSuv over sedan. Sedans are no doubt great to handle and bit more premium but only as long as the roads are good.
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Old 4th April 2019, 07:06   #35
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

The C2 segment is not exciting anymore. Have been hunting for a C2 sedan to replace my S cross. City has been modified n number of times and looks like a bloated popcorn. I would have preferred the 2009 compact look. The Verna is a boat and Vento/Rapid twins are too dated. The 1.6 TDI is too noisy and 1.2 TSI is the only respite. The Ciaz is nothing but a bloated dzire. The S cross is not a sedan per se and I hate the new looks. Still waiting for a new C2 sedan. The C1 segment has more power but all are basically flying popcorns. No reliable diesel automatics in the C2 segment is another problem.
The pseudo SUVs that are replacing the C2 segment is slowly shifting to the D1 territory. The Creta automatic with ancient torque converter is 18.5 big ones on the road, 3.5 lacs more that its launch price, still sparsely equipped.
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Old 4th April 2019, 07:46   #36
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

I feel the two biggest factors contributing to the success of the the C1 sedans is Price and Features

Price - The car prices have moved a segment above now. A few years back I could get a proper top variant C2 sedan in 9-10 lakhs OTR, which is what C1 sedans command now. And this is true for all segments, but affects more in the price sensitive segments like these.

Features - 85%-90% of the features that you get in the C2 sedans are now available in C1 sedans. In a price sensitive market like ours, that's a big selling proposition.

If we combine the above two factors, effectively, on an average one gets 80-85% of space and features at almost 65-70% of the costs. In a segment where VFM plays an important role, that's indeed a winning proposition!

Although, like many others here, I cannot think of buying one ever. For me, a sedan has to be a proper sedan with space, power, safety and top of the line features. The kind of comfort and luxury a proper sedan offers can never be matched by an extended hatchback kind of compact sedan. Don't mind paying that 30% extra as I keep my cars for long and know the value it brings it to the table!
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Old 4th April 2019, 08:08   #37
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

I don't concur with many of the points made in the article. I have a Honda City petrol and know people who have bought and re-bought many generations of the same car. And there are many good reasons for that which OP fails to understand.

You cannot get Honda City petrol kind of performance in ANY other cheaper C1 "sedan" or SUV except BRV which is based on the cheap Amaze platform.

And the interior space and the boot are cavernous, I have loaded my car several times with 5 people and boot full of luggage. You don't get that kind of space in any SUV for the same price.

And what about the looks of the C1 "sedans"? If I bought one, I would feel like puking when approach my car daily. They are for OLA and Uber drivers, nothing else.
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Old 4th April 2019, 10:25   #38
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

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Originally Posted by mxh View Post

And what about the looks of the C1 "sedans"? If I bought one, I would feel like puking when approach my car daily. They are for OLA and Uber drivers, nothing else.
I don't know about you but for me the current lot of C1 sedans, like the new Amaze, DZire, Tigor, Aspire don't look as bad as the earlier versions of the same. Besides, they offer extreme bang for the buck (read good boot space in the range of 400-420 Ltrs which is only marginally less than C2 sedans).

The C1 sedans of today are no longer for the cabbies, lots of first time car buyers are buying the same, not necessarily due to the "image" associated with a sedan, but for the sheer value for money proposition.
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Old 4th April 2019, 10:38   #39
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

I dont like any of the C1 sedans currently in the market.. gives too much of a "me too" vibe, and also for most part, look awkward. This is entirely subjective and my view.

I can understand the bang for the buck view point. But for me personally, if I can get a hot hatch for 10L with all bells and whistles, that is always a more attractive proposition than the C1 sedan . But of course, the success of C1 sedan means that the Indian public by and large doesnt care for these things - its the sheer value perception of 3 boxes at the same prices of 2..

C2 cars - well, yes, C1s and SUVs have eroded their market for sure, as many have commented.
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Old 4th April 2019, 10:44   #40
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mxh View Post

You cannot get Honda City petrol kind of performance in ANY other cheaper C1 "sedan" or SUV except BRV which is based on the cheap Amaze platform.
Will tend to agree on this. Case in point: my own car shopping experience in the last few months. My shortlisted cars were the Ecosport, and then an outside contender was the City, given that they fell in the same price bracket. The petrol motor (Dragon 1.5) on the Ecosport was not too impressive as far as my 3 different test drives went. I was anticipating a much more power packed drive, but given the heavy kerb weight of the car, the 123 BHP did not seem to have much of an effect. Yes, the low end drive was pretty responsive, but the lack of refinement and average power delivery was not convincing enough for me to plonk 12 big ones on the Ecosport. Perhaps the Ecoboost is a more suitable engine for the car, but that variant is INR 2 lakhs + more expensive. Not to mention, the abysmal fuel efficiency of the 1.5L engine, which numerous users have commented on (though this was not a priority factor for me). While I still like the Ecosport in the C-SUV segment, it did not tick my primary requirements.

When I test drove the City thereafter, the power and refinement was in a different league altogether. Also, the ride comfort seemed quite a bit better than the Ecosport. No brainer choice for me to book the City and bring her home. Oh and yes, the fuel efficiency is much better as well

Last edited by arindambasu13 : 4th April 2019 at 11:03.
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Old 4th April 2019, 11:05   #41
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

I think one reason for the stagnation of this segment is that each car has one or two factors that can potentially be a deal breaker and drive the customer towards a CSUV.

Verna: Cramped rear seat
City: Expensive, sucky infotainment system
Ciaz: Light build, boring engines
Yaris: Way overpriced
Vento/Rapid: Too old

It’s a similar story in developed markets like the USA, where crossovers/SUVs have overtaken sedans. Ford has decided to discontinue all their sedans from the market.

I for one would take a sedan over a crossover, horrible roads be damned. Let’s hope this segment sees a revival with the upcoming City and Verna.
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Old 4th April 2019, 11:29   #42
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

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Originally Posted by mxh View Post
And the interior space and the boot are cavernous, I have loaded my car several times with 5 people and boot full of luggage. You don't get that kind of space in any SUV for the same price.
Going by absolute numbers - Yes. For practicality, no!

Honda City has 510 litres of bootspace as compared to 402 litres of an SUV like the Hyundai Creta. BUT -

1. Most sedans have a fixed rear seat, and small boot opening (except notchbacks)! So all you get is a box sized volume without any added flexbility.

2. Volume of boot in SUV's are measured upto the parcel shelf - however, it can be removed to transport taller items (like a small plant or cycle for example) when required.

3. Easier to load bigger items as you don't need to squeeze it in through the small boot opening.

4. Fold down the rear seats when even more flexibility is required to liberate more than double the space than a sedan can dream of!

The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)-newhondacity15.jpg

The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)-hyundaicreta25.jpg

The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)-hyundaicreta26.jpg
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Old 4th April 2019, 11:42   #43
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

It all comes down to 2 things. Your requirement and what you can get accordingly in your allotted budget.
Let's take my own case.
My Honda City will complete 5 years in a short time and I am already looking for a replacement.

Requirement - Good boot space for work purposes, Diesel engine as running is high, interior space, comfortable suspension, good FE. And latest addition and non negotiable- An Automatic.
Budget- Upto 12- 13 lac.

So, what are my options for a diesel automatic meeting this criterias.
Amaze, Ameo, Dzire.
Verna has a diesel Automatic but that costs 16+ on road so out of contention.

Now Ameo is out cos of infamous VW group activities and DSG box unreliability factor.
Dzire is out cos of AMT box.
Leaves only Amaze as a choice for now. Now I am not a fan of it but this is the only choice left out.

If it was a petrol then choice was quite easy. City with CVT is a no brainer. However, its 3+ lac costlier than Amaze diesel CVT for a similar feature model, in the end it's not an easy decision to make.

Last edited by harry10 : 4th April 2019 at 11:43.
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Old 4th April 2019, 12:16   #44
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Going by absolute numbers - Yes. For practicality, no!

Honda City has 510 litres of bootspace as compared to 402 litres of an SUV like the Hyundai Creta. BUT -
Exactly what I mentioned in my buying experience of Tata Nexon, a CSUV or SUV will always hold more luggage than a sedan of comparable boot size.

Also CSUV or Crossover within similar price range tend to be more compact than sedans of similar category (esp. in <20L segment). This helps in easier driving and parking. All this with providing similar seating comfort
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Old 4th April 2019, 12:30   #45
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

I have a Honda City that is now 9 Years old and will complete 10 years in a few months. This is a G3 City and was and still is Solid to the Core. I have driven other cars and absolutely nothing else within the price range gives as good a comfort or driving pleasure. C1 Sedans are not even close. I am not a Junglee driver, but the City has enough performance to excite the middle aged 40 + man in me while going about the daily chores of life. I also love the simplicity of not having to use Touch screens or gestures and have manual buttons. They are just faster at the simple things you want to do.

What i have decided is to use the car till 15 years and in all probability will still go for a Sedan only . Once you have used the City for some time , or the earlier generation Civic, they are very tough cars to replace . The replacement for a Car like City which gives a better feel is a lot more expensive and you have to go to the Octavia / Superb / New Civic class of cars.
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