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Old 5th April 2019, 12:17   #61
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

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Originally Posted by silverado View Post

The one sedan which will hold on to its position could be City. Its the most perfect sedan to have in that category.
Except that it has poor build quality at a higher price, compared to all other cars in the category. I would say - a Verna or a Ciaz offer much better proposition in toto, depending on what compromise you are willing to do - rear seat space in case of verna (for much better quality overall) and less responsive engine in case of Ciaz (for same build quality but even more space inside).
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Old 5th April 2019, 13:08   #62
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To what extent are the manufacturers themselves to be blamed for the loss of sales in the C2 segment? After all over the last 4 years specially with the current generation models, the price increases were dramatic. And suddenly a 12L rs Honda city started costing 16L. This was partly done out of greed and partly to make room for compact SUVs and pushing up the prices of compact sedans. This is similar to the fiasco being unveiled in the entry level luxury segment where a 35L entry level 3 series now reached 45-50L. The only difference is that due to the lack of a segment immediately below them, these luxury car makers offer huge discounts year around to ensure that the landing price still comes under 40L. On the other hand no such room for price adjustments is available to C2 segment car makers as the segments below are also packed with offerings.

The D segment also lost out in the same fashion. I remember when Cruze/Altis etc were available for 13 to 14L ex showroom. The same cars touch 20L and beyond now, ending up simply outpricing themselves.

Last edited by drmohitg : 5th April 2019 at 13:10.
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Old 5th April 2019, 13:24   #63
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

Whoever moved from sedan to SUV in my social circle, cited the seating position (read easy Ingress & Egress) as the primary reason for their decision.

Second reason being perceived better safety in SUV over sedan.

Probably these reasons are the driving factors propelling the sales of compact crossovers (Brezza, Creta etc) over their sedan counterparts.

Last edited by vaasscit : 5th April 2019 at 13:25. Reason: Typo corrected
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Old 5th April 2019, 14:05   #64
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

I swear by my ecosport these days. I bought it back in 2014 and it's been a loyal servant all through. It is reliable, parts are cheap and its built like a tank. It has its fair share of niggles like bouncy ride and a blueteeth audio that would connect to every phone except mine. But over all I am very happy with my decision. Some of the accidents I have experienced in this I am sure any Jap car would have been a complete write off. We go on and on about build quality buy only when one meets with an accident we can actually see what they mean. If it's heavy there is a reason for it.

I am planning to get a used D segment sedan next year but my ecosport will remain until I run it to the ground .

Cheers.

Last edited by nitro.1000bhp : 5th April 2019 at 14:18.
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Old 5th April 2019, 15:28   #65
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

Interesting discussion - and very relevant for me as I'm in the middle of a C2 purchase decision - and have a D1 (Octavia) and an SUV (Hexa) as well, which are influencing my decision. To me, a C2 sedan is needed since it's largely going to be a secondary car - but rear seat space is important (for parents; this car will be chauffeur-driven most often) and the height can't be much as my mum has some issues.

My evaluation has been in progress for months now and I'm beyond frustrated with the evaluations. No C2 sedan offers a truly compelling proposition.

Verna: To me, the Verna doesn't meet the most basic need for a C2 sedan - rear leg room!
City: This new car will replace my existing City. I've never liked the City's drive quality or its build - and this with the 2010 City (ANHC as it was called then). The new one is, if anything, even worse on both. The steering is dead and the car feels even lighter (it is) and unsafe (I hope it's not).
Ciaz: Friend's friend totaled his Ciaz in a low-speed accident with an auto rickshaw. The implications on build quality put me off (apart from it's poor engine and drive), specially when you assess the NCAP results on the likes of the Baleno
Rapid/Vento: If you remove the fact that they're old models, these two actually tick most of the boxes - but fail on rear airbags and the quality of the engines (diesel too loud; MPA too groggy) apart from the 1.2 TSI on the Vento

I dislike the C1s (too small and weird), and don't want to over-spend on a backup car which I'll rarely drive - but I don't want to end up buying a car that I'll regret buying each time I'm in it. if the Rapid had the 1.2 TSI, I'd probably plump for it. Even without it, I can see why a bunch of people are still buying it (specially with the extended warranty etc.). My experience with the Octavia has been good enough for me to still consider the Rapid regardless, but I almost feel at timles like the Aspire may be a better bet (airbags!) - and therein lies the issue... No sedan worth its name in C2. If it were not for my mum's need for a low vehicle, I'd really be looking at the crossovers myself!
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Old 5th April 2019, 15:33   #66
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

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Originally Posted by imidnightmare View Post
Interesting discussion - and very relevant for me as I'm in the middle of a C2 purchase decision - and have a D1 (Octavia) and an SUV (Hexa) as well, which are influencing my decision.

No C2 sedan offers a truly compelling proposition.
Have you considered the Yaris?

It has excellent build quality and handles potholes with aplomb. Yes it is not the most exciting to drive and the rear seat is best for 2 adults not 3. But there is adequate legroom and best in class NVH and safety.
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Old 5th April 2019, 22:56   #67
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

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Originally Posted by Nav-i-gator View Post
Except that it has poor build quality at a higher price, compared to all other cars in the category. I would say - a Verna or a Ciaz offer much better proposition in toto, depending on what compromise you are willing to do - rear seat space in case of verna (for much better quality overall) and less responsive engine in case of Ciaz (for same build quality but even more space inside).
Even though your intention was to suggest a Verna or a Ciaz over a Honda City, you actually end up finding out why people choose a Honda City over the above two rivals.
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Old 6th April 2019, 14:12   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pavi View Post
Even though your intention was to suggest a Verna or a Ciaz over a Honda City, you actually end up finding out why people choose a Honda City over the above two rivals.

The City is no longer the numero uno choice for Sedans. The sales charts over the last 1 year have the trio of City, Ciaz and Verna trading similar sales numbers month on month. I think in Metros and urban areas where the cars are being primarily being self driven, the Verna makes a fantastic case for itself. And the current gen Verna is better than the City in every aspect, barring rear seat space.
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Old 6th April 2019, 19:57   #69
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

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Originally Posted by pavi View Post
Even though your intention was to suggest a Verna or a Ciaz over a Honda City, you actually end up finding out why people choose a Honda City over the above two rivals.
And how did you end up with that conclusion?

Anyways, just to clear your confusion, I would never recommend a city over Verna to anyone. If someone want to be chauffeured around at the backseat, I would recommend Ciaz.

City is only for nostalgic people who had some connection with the older gen cars, or for people who just want to revv beyond 4500RPM every time, and in every gear.

This is my opinion, which should not matter for someone who want to buy a city anyway.
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Old 6th April 2019, 20:25   #70
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

This segment shows FY19 Volumes 128,123. All manufacturers shows a negative growth.

Maruti Suzuki's Ciaz leads the segment closely followed by Honda's City. Honda's City sells 1414 cars more than Hyundai's Verna.

The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)-c1.png

Source:AutoPunditz

Last edited by volkman10 : 6th April 2019 at 20:27.
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Old 7th April 2019, 10:05   #71
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Rapid/Vento: If you remove the fact that they're old models, these two actually tick most of the boxes - but fail on rear airbags and the quality of the engines (diesel too loud; MPA too groggy) apart from the 1.2 TSI on the Vento[/quote]

I was in a similar situation two years back and after due diligence, bought the VW 1.2 TSI. It is a sad state of affairs that even in last two years the situation hasn't changed much and customer doesn't have too many choices if you are looking for a well rounded car in this segment.
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Old 7th April 2019, 10:26   #72
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

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Originally Posted by Nav-i-gator View Post

Anyways, just to clear your confusion, I would never recommend a city over Verna to anyone. If someone want to be chauffeured around at the backseat, I would recommend Ciaz.
In that case, what will you suggest someone who is looking for a C2 segment sedan, likes a free revving NA petrol engine and has a family, hence back seat space is also a priority? For me City strikes a balance (I won’t say a perfect balance) between driving fun (provided you upsize tires to atleast 195 sections) and practicality.

Last edited by pavi : 7th April 2019 at 10:31.
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Old 7th April 2019, 10:32   #73
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

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Originally Posted by pavi View Post
In that case, what will you suggest someone who is looking for a C2 segment sedan, likes a free revving NA petrol engine and has a family, hence back seat space is also a priority? For me City strikes a balance (I won’t say a perfect balance) between driving fun (provided you upsize tires to atleast 195 sections) and practicality.
I would say, if you have a family, put their safety at forefront, buy a yaris.
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Old 7th April 2019, 10:56   #74
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

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Originally Posted by Nav-i-gator View Post

City is only for nostalgic people who had some connection with the older gen cars, or for people who just want to revv beyond 4500RPM every time, and in every gear.
Wouldn't agree at all since I am neither nostalgic about the old City, nor do I have any connections with the earlier versions of the car, yet chose the City over it's competitors.

Further, the City is eminently driveable at low revs, does not necessarily need high revving. In fact my driving is usually restricted within the 1500 to 3000 RPM range and I hardly ever venture into 4500 RPM territory unless I am on an expressway and have open roads ahead.

At these lower revs the 1.5 iVTEC engine is fantastic to drive with good torque available, something which I always missed in my earlier 1.2 K series Swift- and in my case the engine has not even opened up yet since it is still in the running in period. I'm sure it will become smoother and better with kilometers being clocked.

The Verna is also a very capable car no doubt and is an equally compelling choice for a prospective buyer, but it just didn't appeal to me in the way the City did.

Last edited by arindambasu13 : 7th April 2019 at 11:03.
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Old 7th April 2019, 17:08   #75
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

It is really sad to see the declining demand for the C2 segment. I remember as a kid we used to fantasise about owning a Daewoo Cielo or a Honda City in the later days but now the trend has shifted over to these big butch SUVs.

Last edited by moralfibre : 3rd October 2019 at 06:54. Reason: Typo
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