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Old 7th April 2019, 18:46   #76
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

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Originally Posted by arindambasu13 View Post

Further, the City is eminently driveable at low revs, does not necessarily need high revving. In fact my driving is usually restricted within the 1500 to 3000 RPM range and I hardly ever venture into 4500 RPM territory unless I am on an expressway and have open roads ahead.
I agree. Iíve heard this argument about the Cityís 1.5 i-VTEC being sluggish at lower revs, and thatís false. It only applies to the 1.2 in the Jazz and Amaze.
I have the 3rd gen, and itís very driveable between 1500-3000 rpm. If you keep it within that rev range and upshift early, it proves to be quite efficient too. When you rev it, it emits a throaty growl that sounds amazing. The 4th gen should be even better.
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Old 7th April 2019, 19:58   #77
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

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Originally Posted by Nav-i-gator View Post
I would say, if you have a family, put their safety at forefront, buy a yaris.
I agree with 7 airbags the Yaris has set the bar for safety. But I would not term the City an unsafe car by any means.

There are several incidents reported on this forum by folks whose lives have been saved by the Honda City and the 4th Gen City at that including me.

Here are some links for reference avoiding re-quoting what was already said and discussed earlier:

Reference 01 > (Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs)

Reference 02 > (Honda working on City Facelift. EDIT: Launched at Rs 8.5 lakhs)
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Old 7th April 2019, 20:25   #78
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

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Originally Posted by vsrivatsa View Post
I agree with 7 airbags the Yaris has set the bar for safety. But I would not term the City an unsafe car by any means.
Agree with you. Even we have a thread on ‘light sheet metal is not always low safety’. But I would agree that light sheet metal is a maintenance nightmare. There are some heard facts about Honda 1.5 i-vtec engine among the forum members who have never driven one or experienced one for a considerable amount of time. The most important one would be ‘i-vtec engine is dead at low rpms’. In real world, it is not. It has enough drivability under 2000 rpm, and from 2000 rpm onwards it lunges forward with an urgency as it is free revving. Under 2000 rpm, it is better than a ddis engine.

I wont say Honda City is a perfect car, but if you are someone who likes to drive a petrol car, it is a good option and a great option >4600rpm.

Note : my cousin has Swift ddis ZDi which I had driven for quite sometime.

Last edited by pavi : 7th April 2019 at 20:31.
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Old 8th April 2019, 00:50   #79
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

With all the 3 cars leading one month each in the monthly sales chart during the first 3 months, the C2 Sedans segment is not dying anytime soon. This is the only segment where there is some reasonable competition and this is one prestigious segment for the OEMs atleast. However, the recent onslaught of the cross-overs the segment is facing pressure but the BS6 norms may bring some respite to the C2 segment sedans since most of the sales from cross-overs comes from the diesel. The Compact Sedan segment is alive only because of Dzire and the new generation Amaze and all others are also-rans.
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Old 8th April 2019, 06:02   #80
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

Believe the only real valid point raised till now - has been regarding the fantastic petrol choices available in the segment, be it with the 1.5 iVTec, 1.4 TJet or even the 1.6 VTVT.

That said - What could be the future of the segment post BS6 then? The market will obviously turn towards petrol due to diesel engines becoming an expensive affair.

1. Will this trend favour sedans as crossovers were always associated with diesel engine options?

2. Or will it kill sedans as the engine advantage is likely to be lost as well? All modern crossovers are getting excellent petrol engine options - the 1.2 turbo petrol in the XUV 3OO, speculated 1.0 T-GDI in the Hyundai Venue, 1.5 iVTec for the upcoming Amaze platform based Creta rival etc.
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Old 8th April 2019, 11:02   #81
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
1.5 iVTec for the upcoming Amaze platform based Creta rival etc.
Which car you are talking about. Is it HRV/Vazel or something else? I have not heard of such news of any upcoming crossover from Honda.
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Old 8th April 2019, 11:06   #82
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

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Which car you are talking about. Is it HRV/Vazel or something else? I have not heard of such news of any upcoming crossover from Honda.
No. India won't be getting the HR-V, but a lookalike based on the new Amaze platform, along with another sub-4m SUV also on the same platform.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ub-4m-suv.html (Honda readying two new SUVs for India - A Creta rival & a sub-4m SUV)

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ml#post4398683 (Rumour: Honda India to launch HR-V)
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Old 9th April 2019, 16:47   #83
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
.. 1.4 TJet or even the 1.6 VTVT..
I was just lamenting the lack of good petrol engines in the other thread - https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...es-2019-a.html (The best Petrol engines of 2019).

So, I was quite intrigued to read your high praise for petrol engines in this segment. Could you please let a noob like me know which cars have these two engines?
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Old 9th April 2019, 17:24   #84
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

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Originally Posted by mohansrides View Post
So, I was quite intrigued to read your high praise for petrol engines in this segment.
No sir, I didn't praise the petrols in the segment - I was only going by the majority of responses on this thread - which state a good petrol option as one of the primary reasons to pick a C segment sedan over crossovers from similar price brackets.

That said, a good petrol engine (specially the turbo petrols IMHO) is hard to beat with a turbo diesel - if the wallets don't complain otherwise.
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Old 9th April 2019, 17:34   #85
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
That said, a good petrol engine (specially the turbo petrols IMHO) is hard to beat with a turbo diesel - if the wallets don't complain otherwise.
You still didnít answer my question though

Which cars have those two engines that you were waxing eloquently about?
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Old 9th April 2019, 17:46   #86
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

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Originally Posted by navin View Post
Have you considered the Yaris?

It has excellent build quality and handles potholes with aplomb. Yes it is not the most exciting to drive and the rear seat is best for 2 adults not 3. But there is adequate legroom and best in class NVH and safety.
Not happy with the value. Interiors are very ordinary (to be kind), itís massively under-powered, doesnít wow you with drive quality, has inferior ride quality to competition and doesnít have any really stand-out feature where it trumps the competition. Iíd argue that even the Verna has better ride comfort (rear seat specially) and leg-room isnít that important given it's a short family (parents are both sub-5í6Ē). The Yaris seems massively over-priced and just doesnít offer anything I consider as value.
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Old 9th April 2019, 22:19   #87
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

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Originally Posted by mohansrides View Post
You still didnít answer my question though

Which cars have those two engines that you were waxing eloquently about?
I believe its the Linea and the Verna
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Old 10th April 2019, 03:34   #88
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

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Originally Posted by pavi View Post
There are some heard facts about Honda 1.5 i-vtec engine among the forum members who have never driven one or experienced one for a considerable amount of time.
Agree with you, I own a 1.2L i-vtec WR-V along with a Duster 110PS AMT. When I first wrote about my driving experience with WR-V, many members took it too personally.
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Old 10th April 2019, 09:48   #89
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

Cross-quoting few observations from my other post located here, the following corroborates almost all the experiences outlined in this thread.

For every 1 C2 sedan sold, there were ~4 SUVs sold in Oct'18, and so on. In Mar'19 the ratio was 1 sedan : ~5 SUVs.
Some of the decimal numbers have been rounded off but the intent here is to show the trend.

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Have used this break-up for reference:-

C2
SUV (all the proper/improper/crossover/pullover/pushover types) - Brezza, Creta, Nexon, Scorpio, XUV300, WRV, S-Cross, TUV300, Duster, Kicks, Safari/Storme, Captur, BRV, EcoSport
Sedan - Ciaz, City, Verna, Rapid, Vento, Yaris
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Old 10th April 2019, 10:47   #90
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Default Re: The diminishing value of C2 sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna et al)

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Originally Posted by JoshMachine View Post
---

For every 1 C2 sedan sold, there were ~4 SUVs sold in Oct'18, and so on. In Mar'19 the ratio was 1 sedan : ~5 SUVs.
--
Sedans are definitely shows a drooping trend, but the lucrative UV market sees a downtrend and the question is what next?

Quote:
Sales of utility vehicles (UV) hit speed bumps in FY19 with sub-optimal 2% growth after two straight years of high double-digit rates of expansion, raising question marks on the immediate prospects of a market segment where up to 36 new models are planned in the next couple of years.
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Link
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