[vharihar]

Originally Posted by Ravi Parwan

Agree with Lazy, could be simply the difference between the buyer/ driver mentality more than the vehicle. Safari drivers are less prone to jackrabbit style driving than Scorpio (I feel that is the USP for the scorpio).

Well, its too much of a coincidence to believe that all Safari owners turned out to be sedate drivers and all Scorpio owners turned out to be sporty drivers. Instead, I'd rather conclude that Scorpio is much more fun and sporty to drive while the Safari isn't (Storme included), and hence their respective driving styles developed the way it did.

Originally Posted by Ravi Parwan

You can almost feel the fuel being burnt in the Safari when the car is pushed hard. The guilt is slightly less in the scorpio...

Well, that just reaffirms what I was trying to say, viz. Mahindra definitely know a thing or two or more far better than Tata! Perhaps something about engine/transmission design. And those areas aren't ones where expertise comes easily. Tata certainly has some catching up to do to be on par with Mahindra, despite having improved a lot!

Heck, when I drive my Tucson on the highways, I generally get good competition from Scorpios and commercial vehicle Boleros (eg. for overtaking a Bolero). But I've never felt hurried by a Safari on a hwy. (FYI: I rarely go beyond 110 kmph, but I do floor it and accelerate quick)

[aniyo]

Originally Posted by rovingeye

Not one OEM has come forward and said, the auto industry has become so greedy that for no rhyme or reason, they have been jacking up prices of their products and perhaps, finally the buyer is starting to question - is it worth it?

With inflation firmly under control, all this talk about input costs rising is just that - empty talk.

Sure thing. When I was going through the official review for Nexon, there were so many features and only one blank button on the dash.
Today, just over the past year, the feature list has gone down, the blanks have gone up to 3 and the price has one up by 50-60K.
Same story across the board. In marketing parlance this is called parity pricing, when the leader increases the price the challenger increase to maintain the gap.

[Lambydude]

Originally Posted by rovingeye

Not one OEM has come forward and said, the auto industry has become so greedy that for no rhyme or reason, they have been jacking up prices of their products and perhaps, finally the buyer is starting to question - is it worth it? .

Bang on. Today, with 25 lacs in hand to spend, what do you get in Bangalore ( on road).
1. Jeep compass with 2 airbags. 6 airbag variant comes to 27 on road
2. Harrier with no automatic option
3. Hexa, with no TC/ESP in top end automatic variant. And not sure if Tata will continue this model after the launch of 7 seater Harrier/ buzzard
4. All D1 segment sedans

Manufacturers have definitely gone greedy by omitting certain options or pushing up the price.

[Max63]

Originally Posted by GTO

We will share whatever numbers we get . But Isuzu doesn't share its model-specific numbers (presumably because they are too low).

They have two cars i.e. V Cross and MUX, and I think both are picking up in sales, specially the V Cross the only proper Pickup truck available in India besides Scorpio Gateway and Tata Xenon pickup.

Cheers

[volkman10]

Originally Posted by Max63

They have two cars i.e. V Cross and MUX, and I think both are picking up in sales, specially the V Cross the only proper Pickup truck available in India besides Scorpio Gateway and Tata Xenon pickup.

Monthly sales of 2018 is available ( was posted earlier too) for D-Max( V Cross and Max Cab) and MUX

- Isuzu has sold an average of 411 units/month of D-Max + V-Cross in 2018.




Isuzu MUX ( very low market acceptance)

- Isuzu has sold an average of 79 units/month of MU-X in 2018.

The company has currently dedicated dealer touch-points, located in 44 locations across the country. Considering 2018 volumes (Total 5886 units); Each Dealer outlet would be selling an average of 11 units/month which considerably low.

Source Auto Punditz

[RaviK]

Originally Posted by shashankjain16

Duster numbers give an interesting insight.. If yes, why nobody is milking this opportunity?

Probably the same reason, why Maruti never launched a Mahindra jeep competitor in 90s or why no one is bothered to launch a Bolero challenger (despite it clocking 7-8k numbers/month) ? Its quite difficult to understand this phenomenon where auto companies are competing for 3 - 4k numbers (C2 sedans) but certain segments are left completely untouched :

Probably there are some pressing reasons, not known to us enthusiasts (brand image/ROI/lack of products/anything else) ?

[niteshbids]

Originally Posted by GTO

Till 3 - 4 years back, Tata simply didn't have the sales. It couldn't go to its dealerships & demand upgrades. Now, things are changing with their new launches. Tata knows this and has already begun the long, arduous process of improving its dealerships' ambience, look & feel.

I agree and completely understand. I had already mentioned in my post that well informed enthusiasts can gloss over such purchase experiences but not the masses. Tata needs to address this on top priority.


All said and done, the basics like availability of brochures in sufficient quantities, clean and maintained TD cars should not be too hard to implement and should have already been done.

[tarik.arora]

Originally Posted by niteshbids

I agree and completely understand. I had already mentioned in my post that well informed enthusiasts can gloss over such purchase experiences but not the masses. Tata needs to address this on top priority.

While i do understand the challenge that you faced, things are surely getting better. Tiago, a mass market product is finding 8k buyers every month and that isn't a small feat. I wont call all of them well informed enthusiasts. Also, if you would have noticed, Tiago sales rose steadily over the last 2 years and i assume that it is because of the masses.

Dealer experience is something that takes years to better. Its a viscous circle. Earlier, the throughput was not enough for the dealers to invest in themselves and now that they are getting the volumes, things should get better in the next 3-5 years. There may be certain dealers that are not ready to accept the change, Tata should act strict against them as they are causing damage to a brand that has just started its re-climb.

[anu007]

Originally Posted by shashankjain16

Duster numbers give an interesting insight

If there is a similar product launched which gives ride quality, toughness and capability that duster offers, but with modern features - can it be a significant seller in the current market? If yes, why nobody is milking this opportunity?

I think that is because price might go the same level as the Creta. And dislodging the established Creta from its position is very difficult.

We have already seen the high price of the nicely kitted XUV300, albeit in a lower segment. Similarly we have also seen the following:

1. Failure of Captur, a reasonably kitted vehicle in the same price bracket and even in spite of good discounts (although with old interiors)
2. Not so decent success of Kicks in spite of decent features and decent interiors

I think it leaves up to MSIL to bring a localized Grand Vitara, only who is seemed to be a like for like challenger to Creta.

[JoshMachine]

Have been trying to get to the bottom of the SUV vs. Sedan debate for a while now. And when Aditya published the March'19 data, thought I might just play around.

Please excuse the simplicity of the exercise, I have not formatted/cleaned up the graph gridlines etc. I have collated info for the last 6 months only.
Maybe, from next month onwards, I will try to present it in a better fashion. That is, if there is a demand for it

So, I have tried to create some views based on three segments: C2, D1and D2.

And here is the line-up under each segment:-

C2
SUV (all the proper/improper/crossover/pullover/pushover types) - Brezza, Creta, Nexon, Scorpio, XUV300, WRV, S-Cross, TUV300, Duster, Kicks, Safari/Storme, Captur, BRV, EcoSport
Sedan - Ciaz, City, Verna, Rapid, Vento, Yaris

The first graph is a straight representation of the absolute numbers.
Actually not very helpful to make a great deal of analysis except that it shows the might of one category clearly pitted against the other:-



Now, the second graph is meanigful, in the sense - it shows that for every 1 sedan sold, there were ~4 SUVs sold in Oct'18, and so on. In Mar'19 the ratio was 1 sedan : ~5 SUVs.
Mind you, some of the decimal numbers have been rounded off but the intent here is to show the trend anyway.



And this third graph is about the correlation of the SUVs : Sedans in the form of percentages. Again, the same info conveyed albeit in a different fashion.
Again point to note, some of the percentages have been rounded off.
Interesting patterns, what do you say?



D1
SUV (all the proper/improper/crossover/pullover/pushover types) - Innova, Harrier, XUV500, Compass, Hexa, Tucson, Tiguan
Sedan - Civic, Octavia, Corolla, Elantra

First graph. Absolute numbers, to show off the might. Obviously, the volumes in this segment are far less as compared to C2 but the trend has somewhat become spiked.



For the second graph, the action hots up suddenly!
For every 1 sedan sold, there were ~20 SUVs sold in Oct'18, peaked in Feb'19 with 1 sedan : ~30 SUVs. In Mar'19 the ratio was brought down to 1 sedan : ~5 SUVs because Civic entered the sedan fray with a bang, diluting the ratio considerably.



The third graph in the D1 segment, echoes what we saw above, but in the form of percentages.



D2
SUV (all the proper/improper/crossover/pullover/pushover types) - Fortuner, Endy, Alturas, Kodiaq, CRV, Pajero Sport
Sedan - Superb, Passat, Camry, Accord

In this segment, data throws up some outliers - no sales recorded for Pajero Sport and Accord in last 6 months.

First graph. Same story. Absolute volumes. But now we are talking 4 digit sales.



Second graph. For every 1 sedan sold, there were ~11 SUVs sold in Oct'18, peaked in Feb'19 with 1 sedan : ~17 SUVs.



The third graph in the D2 segment, echoes what we saw above, but in the form of percentages.



Next time, when somebody asks me about the SUV:Sedan comparo, I know precisely how to participate in that discussion

Excel sheet attached for reference. As mentioned above, please excuse the simplistic nature of this attempt.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by rajshenoy

Ertiga is selling in such large numbers !! I thought the MPV segment was stable for past 4-5 years and Ertiga was hovering around 4-5K. Looks like the new model is working well for Maruti(or rather balancing the Ciaz/S-Cross sales).

Unable to figure out where these numbers are coming from. who is taking the beating ?

I'm sure Ertiga is not just eating into its own segment but to other segments as well like the sedans.
I remember when Ertiga was launched, Etios sales went down from consistent 5000 plus to 3000 plus levels. And it stayed there ever after. For many of my friends for whom I recommended the Ertiga, their choice was between Ciaz and Ertiga.

[aniyo]

Originally Posted by JoshMachine

Have been trying to get to the bottom of the SUV vs. Sedan debate for a while now. And when Aditya published the March'19 data, thought I might just play around.

Thanks for the graphs. Quite interesting. I was curious why sub-4M sedan were not considered in the analysis as CSUV were considered.

[JoshMachine]

Originally Posted by aniyo

Thanks for the graphs. Quite interesting. I was curious why sub-4M sedan were not considered in the analysis as CSUV were considered.

Because the sub-4metre sedans (like Dzire, Ameo etc) are bracketed in the C1 segment, where there are no SUVs to be compared with, essentially.

The above interpretation or analysis, as I mentioned in the posts, is about trying to understand the SUV:Sedan debate.
And that means, I had to pick the C2, D1 and the D2 segments for unearthing the debate comparison.

[mroutlander]

Originally Posted by anu007

... Failure of Captur, a reasonably kitted vehicle in the same price bracket and even in spite of good discounts (although with old interiors) .

While we know that Captur was essentially a DOA product but interestingly enough, I have seen more Capturs on the road in the last month than what I had seen from the launch to Feb'19. Massive discounts on the Captur are breathing some life into it, apparently.

Originally Posted by anu007

I think it leaves up to MSIL to bring a localized Grand Vitara, only who is seemed to be a like for like challenger to Creta.

They already have a rival (well, almost) to Creta - the S-Cross. Wouldn't the Grand Vitara sit a little higher unless they decide to do away with the S-Cross altogether? Further, Maruti hasn't had enough success in the (relatively) premium segments where its competitors have a better brand perception.

[NiInJa]

Two key takeaways :

Nissan as a brand has been damaged beyond repair in India. The Kicks though looks refreshing compared to Creta/ S-Cross, simply failed to make its mark.

Give people a reasonably priced MPV and they might choose it over a Sedan. The Ertiga and Marazzo are proving it. I wont be surprised if Ertiga crosses 10k mark in the next few months. This might open up a new front for competition in the coming years. Imagine Hyundai coming up with a great looking 7 seater ?