Team-BHP > The Indian Car Scene


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10th April 2019, 11:32   #46
BHPian
 
turbospooler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Pune
Posts: 251
Thanked: 417 Times
Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

While people are worrying about the future of Ford's and M&M's cars, just think what must be going in the minds of Ford's employees.
M&M has their R&D center in Chennai. Ford also has a localized one in Chennai. There is duplication of resources, so few of them will be getting the axe.
M&M and Ford will both have Sales teams in multiple cities and, again, this is a duplication of resources.
M&M has their Strategic Sourcing Unit (the Purchase team) sitting in Mumbai and Ford has their's sitting in Chennai. As a shared service, this team will also be rationalized.

Coming to the Quality systems and Operating models of these manufacturers, there is going to be huge differences in Vendor Quality, Vendor development which will show in the cars in the near future.
Tata-Fiat JV is one big example. Tata trusts Fiat quality systems so much, they decided to manufacture the Nexon in Fiat premises.

It will be a very difficult transition for many.
Let us hope it all works out for the best.
turbospooler is offline   (6) Thanks
Old 10th April 2019, 11:35   #47
Newbie
 
AlokSharma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Navi Mumbai
Posts: 14
Thanked: 35 Times
Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_joker View Post
I'm not an expert, but I'll pitch in my 2 cents. It depends on your specific situation. Answer these questions, and you can make a decision:
1. Did you consider any other cars? If so, why did you choose Aspire? What did it offer over others? Can you make do without these advantages?
2. It is unlikely to affect you in near future. You may end up with some issues like part shortage etc after 5 - 10 years? Are you ok with this?
3. How important is resale? This news will definitely affect resale negatively. Are you ok with this?
4. You may end up fighting with the dealer to cancel your booking. You may lose some money in the process. Is this ok with you?

I am in the same situation too. I have booked the Ecosport. I liked the car a lot over XUV300. I think I can live with the service issues. I don't care about resale. So, I'm going ahead with the purchase.
Thank you for your view.
Let me answer the points you have raised in the same order.

1. With my budget being 10 lacs, I couldn't think of any other diesel car than either the Freestyle or the Aspire. loved the way the engine performs and the driving dynamics. No other car around this price range comes close to it. With Ford providing 5 year warranty with service schedule cost pre-defined, i couldn't think of any other car.
2. I plan to use the car for at least 7-8 years if the car gives me no issues. I have heard Ford owners living with their cars for 10 years due to the good built quality. I know for the initial 1-3 years there may not be any issues with respect to the availability of the parts. But then what after that. It does make a new Ford owner apprehensive.
3. I know the resale will go for a toss. I knew before this news broke, that a Ford won't have the same re-sale as the Hyundai or Maruti, but still went away with Ford considering the build quality and driving dynamics. Post the news, the resale will go rock bottom with people fearing Chevy like future.
4. Answering the above points, I feel I am not ready to fight/argue with the dealer regarding cancellation of the booking. I will go ahead with the purchase.

Looking back can say, we had the true blue oval at home before it merged with the red one.
AlokSharma is offline   (7) Thanks
Old 10th April 2019, 11:44   #48
Senior - BHPian
 
kiku007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: AU
Posts: 2,032
Thanked: 3,724 Times
Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Quoting a friendly BHPian here. He might reply to this thread if he wants to share his identity:



"Might" is the key term here. Maybe a Mahindra-Ford badge (like Maruti-Suzuki)? Or just "Mahindra EcoSport"? Or maybe, just continue as the Ford EcoSport?

Let's not forget that if they are rebranded as Mahindras, they'll be in direct competition with Mahindra's own cars (EcoSport vs XUV300, Endeavour vs Alturas). End of the day, Mahindra will always want its own products to sell more, rather than rebranded ones.
If you ever meet the bozos at Ford, can you tell them how successful the Mahindra-Renault badge was?

If this happens, they can add the "Ford" brand to their list of names they killed in India. Like how they let down nameplates like Ikon, Fiesta and Figo.
kiku007 is offline  
Old 10th April 2019, 11:45   #49
PPS
Senior - BHPian
 
PPS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: mumbai
Posts: 2,304
Thanked: 3,050 Times
Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Maybe a Mahindra-Ford badge (like Maruti-Suzuki)? Or just "Mahindra EcoSport"? Or maybe, just continue as the Ford EcoSport?
Below is what Ford India tweeted.

Name:  shot20190410157811x4xd83.jpeg
Views: 2578
Size:  77.5 KB
PPS is offline   (14) Thanks
Old 10th April 2019, 11:59   #50
Distinguished - BHPian
 
volkman10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: --
Posts: 17,038
Thanked: 39,914 Times
Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

Quote:
Originally Posted by PPS View Post
--Below is what Ford India tweeted.

--
What else do you expect from them?

Here is excerpts from an interview with the CEO - GM just before its exit,


Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra-1.png


Link
volkman10 is offline   (8) Thanks
Old 10th April 2019, 12:09   #51
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 62
Thanked: 114 Times
Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

We have had 4 Fords at our place, 1 Ikon Flair, Ikon 1.6, previous Gen 3.0 Endeavour and now the new Endeavour (not too new anymore though). Always been a huge fan of the brand and we ended up endorsing 5 more Ford purchases in the family. I was actually planning on replacing our 8 year old i20 with an Ecosport later this year as well. Obviously I don't want to see the Ford brand go or even reduce their footprint, but I can totally understand their decision.

Overall India is a very small market for them from a consumer stand point. It takes a lot of infra and spend to bring models into India if manufactured here, or in case its a CBU or CKD you end up pricing it too high and you end up losing the game- so the only option that remains is to localize as much as possible which again takes us back to investments.

Brands like Hyundai did well probably because their global portfolio resonated well with the Indian demands and it made sense for them to invest and grow (not doubting their products, they have been great as well). Would be super interesting to see how this pans out. Who gains and who loses only time will tell.
karan85 is online now   (2) Thanks
Old 10th April 2019, 12:14   #52
Distinguished - BHPian
 
R2D2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pune
Posts: 3,070
Thanked: 4,923 Times
Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

IMO these collaborations with local/Indian partners don't work in modern times. Their ways of running the show are simply too different probably due to cultural reasons. We've seen this in the past ('90s) with PAL-Peugeot, Mahindra-Ford (1st avatar, remember the Ford Escort and Mondeo) and that automobile ogre Tata-Fiat.

Ford is handing the driver's seat to M&M, well good for M&M but not good for brand Ford. This IMHO is Ford prepping to exit the Indian market, indefinite timeline probably, but in a responsible manner without leaving customers in the lurch as GM did. If I were in the car market today as a potential customer I wouldn't consider a Ford vehicle for this reason. I have appreciated Ford products especially the fun-to-drive Ikon 1.6 and the Fiesta too.

Last edited by R2D2 : 10th April 2019 at 12:16.
R2D2 is offline   (3) Thanks
Old 10th April 2019, 12:17   #53
Team-BHP Support
 
Chetan_Rao's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 3,568
Thanked: 11,603 Times
Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

Quote:
Originally Posted by narayan View Post
...
Easy to say that. Like I mentioned, (in my view), there are very FEW product positioning options in the Indian auto market....
.....Maruti is the king of both the above points, Hyundai has grabbed a bit from the rest. Where does that leave the rest ?
None of this happened overnight, neither Maruti/Hyundai's success, nor Ford's failure. It's like an air-crash, small decisions made over a period of time adding up to a disaster.

What you say is absolutely true today, it's difficult to shake an established incumbent, but Ford had two decades (nearly the same as Hyundai) to become an incumbent themselves. That they aren't, isn't the market's fault.

Not everyone wants or needs to be market leaders either. Toyota, for example, only sell well in selected segments, but lead those segments by a mile.

Every market has its peculiarities and eccentricities. Ford's India situation is a result of their refusal to go all-in for any particular segment. If they'd launched their global entry-level and mid-range SUV portfolio here, who's to say they won't be a force to be reckoned with in those segments? Ecosport and Endeavour are both well-accepted products, so it's not like nobody wants to buy their cars.
Chetan_Rao is offline   (5) Thanks
Old 10th April 2019, 12:18   #54
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: London
Posts: 117
Thanked: 110 Times
Default

Ford should have put it's best foot forward by introducing their global best sellers such as Fiesta, Focus, Explorer, Ranger and, may be, even the F150. They've done this only with the Fusion, Mondeo and EcoSport). There's a significant difference in brand identity between Ford India and Ford UK / USA / Australia, etc. We don't get the same cars. For instance, I think the first generation Figo was an older gen / discontinued Fiesta hatch from UK. The Fiesta we got was a watered down sedan version which one couldn't relate to its superb global hatch. The current Figo and Aspire, although sportier than competition, have moved away from the brand in terms of being fun and world-class.
Also, Ford screwed up in the marketing department, big time, all these years. There was no leverage on aggressively selling the Mondeo when it won the COTY. I don't seem to recall any great ads from Ford India which stuck with time, unlike other brands. EcoSport was an experimental success, by chance. Even the Endeavour didn't get the marketing attention it deserves.
aamateen46 is offline   (3) Thanks
Old 10th April 2019, 12:20   #55
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 518
Thanked: 1,490 Times
Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

Practically they had only two cars on sale (Figo platform & EcoSport) & still their bosses at USA expected them to catch up with Maruti?

Blaming market for lack of options from your portfolio?

GM move already shock the confidence of buyers & made Maruti ever stronger, and this back to back FIAT & Ford exit will effect every one except Big 4 (Maruti, Hyundai, TATA & Mahindra).

Unlike Maruti buyers, most of the Ford owners are tech-savvy & well informed to current affairs. I wonder how poorly this news will effect sales next month onwards. I can see the news spreading like wild fire in social media.

Feeling bad for present Ford India team. They did two impossible tasks,

1. Complete U-Turn of after sales service
2. Wrote their entry into profit books

All this with just 2 cars (Figo platform & EcoSports).
NaXal is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 10th April 2019, 12:23   #56
AYP
BHPian
 
AYP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 842
Thanked: 1,865 Times
Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

Quote:
Originally Posted by PPS View Post
Below is what Ford India tweeted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
What else do you expect from them?

Here is excerpts from an interview with the CEO - GM just before its exit,

Link
I can see a significant difference in what Ford and GM have said.

Name:  shot20190410157811x4xd83.jpeg
Views: 2388
Size:  119.0 KB

Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra-1.jpg

Ford's tweet looks assuring while the GM CEOs tweet lingers on the borderline between being neutral and being negative.

I hope that the same is translated to on-ground reality as well.

Last edited by AYP : 10th April 2019 at 12:29.
AYP is offline   (5) Thanks
Old 10th April 2019, 12:26   #57
Distinguished - BHPian
 
volkman10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: --
Posts: 17,038
Thanked: 39,914 Times
Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

Quote:
Originally Posted by AYP View Post
I can see a significant difference in what Ford and GM have said. Ford's tweet looks assuring--
Remember it is a tweet from Ford-India.
volkman10 is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 10th April 2019, 12:31   #58
AYP
BHPian
 
AYP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 842
Thanked: 1,865 Times
Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

Quote:
Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
Remember it is a tweet from Ford-India.
The point still stands valid. If there is no such statement from Ford CEO, then there should not have been a comparison put up in the 1st place.

Last edited by AYP : 10th April 2019 at 12:33.
AYP is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 10th April 2019, 12:34   #59
BHPian
 
Immix's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 141
Thanked: 189 Times
Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
Ford has been here long enough that they had the same opportunities to capture market segments as the current segment leaders, the difference was in effort, not opportunity. They themselves captured the compact-SUV market for a while with the Ecosport, so it's not just theory. It can be done with the right products.
Completely agree with you on this. 25 years is a long time and a lot of the players got it right since then e.g. Hyundai with its small cars, Honda with City, Toyota with Qualis then Innova and Fortuner. Ford had the opportunity to do this with Escort, Ikon, and Fiesta (and Mondeo too maybe) but somewhere along the way after these models they lost the plot.

Maybe this is to do with their financial struggles during the recession that started in 2007-2008, which may have forced them to not invest a lot in India back then. That recession likely forced GM also to shift its focus away from weaker markets like India by pulling the Opel brand from India and continuing the Chevy Optra, which was essentially a rebranded Daewoo Nubira also sold as Suzuki Forenza in US (Link (Daewoo Nubira=Chevy Optra=Suzuki Forenza)).

IMO this is the time when the existing players in India solidified their position leaving Ford, GM, and other European companies like Fiat very little room to establish themselves in India decisively. Recession must have been the reason for Fiat to be lackadaisical in launching the excellent Punto in 2008-2009. This is evident by the fact they relied completely on the poor Tata network earlier on when they should have invested in developing their own sales and service network.

It's just sad that such prominent car companies can't find their footing in India and it is we who lose out on a good competition. I just hope that Skoda 2.0 is a success in India and gives other foreign car manufacturers some positive motivation to enter India.
Immix is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 10th April 2019, 12:36   #60
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 60,094
Thanked: 192,126 Times
Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

Quote:
Originally Posted by AYP View Post
I can see a significant difference in what Ford and GM have said.
I hear from an insider that the news is true. Also, the tweet could imply that launching new products *through the JV* is a possibility. And no one said they are exiting India. The main point is 49% in the Mahindra-Ford JV.

Thus, the news & the tweet can both be true.
GTO is offline   (12) Thanks
Closed Thread

Most Viewed
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Copyright 2000 - 2021, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks