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Old 10th April 2019, 12:39   #61
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

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Originally Posted by krish3 View Post
This is a win-win for both IMO. More people walk into a Mahindra Showroom than a Ford one. Now, those who want a vehicle for less than 10 lakhs have great options in Figo, Freestyle and Aspire. Solid vehicles that can sell more with the Mahindra brand behind them. Outside of cities, the M badge carries much more heft than a Ford.

I hope what your are saying comes out true. But it all depends how the salesman portrays a particular car at a Mahindra showroom.
Remember Mahindra had a joint venture with Renault also. Now they have a joint venture with Sangyong but these cars although good do not sell much. The Rexton was a good car but when people walked into a Mahindra showroom they ended up buying a XUV500 for various reasons. I am hoping the JV turns good as I myself own the Endeavour.
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Old 10th April 2019, 12:46   #62
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
We've known this'll be happening since a while, but it's still a bit tough to digest...The company is taking tough decisions - remember their recent announcement where they'll stop selling sedans in the USA

Mahindra having 51% ...completely.

Still, this is better than a full exit like GM. .

GM is gone, VW has handed things over to Skoda.. Am frankly surprised Peugeot-Citroen is thinking of entering.
Ford, GM were too focussed on their "trucks" in late 1990's and early 2000's and it resulted into losses for both, particularly GM. The US big three were not prepared for small, efficient cars and this helped Japs have a permanent entry into USA market. While the current craze for crossovers is more pronounced than what earlier happened, I still feel ignoring other segments means they are bowing out to rivals and emptying the market space for others.

Mahindra seems to have learnt a lot from these JV. Be it first run with Ford, or Logan, such learning may not have an immediate tangible effect. But helpful in long run. Mahindra is a good partner for Ford as both partners are more focussed on SUV/Crossover.

This isn't a complete exit from India for Ford like GM did, but then this move shakes confidence of buyers IMO. PSA will enter using Crossover product, something that is of a craze here and they are avoiding Peugeot brand. But survival wont be that easy.

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Originally Posted by libranof1987 View Post
an overwhelming market leader (with 50% share) and silly regulations (sub-4m rule). However, none of these are unsurmountable, case in point Hyundai.
Partially I agree with you but Hyundai had an early mover advantage, relatively of-course, in small car segment. The energy and excitement build up of Uno to get something other than Zen did benefit Santro.

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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
If I were in the car market today as a potential customer I wouldn't consider a Ford vehicle for this reason. I have appreciated Ford products especially the fun-to-drive Ikon 1.6 and the Fiesta too.
Bulls eye, confidence of consumer is shaken with this move. Ford is trying to keep the door open with not so much risk.

In 2005 when were about to buy a new car, Ford had the most pleasant experience. Ford salesperson told dad to just drive over bumps and see how good suspension is. Dad was not able to believe this, but came out impressed. Honda had its second generation city IIRC, and they were like buy if you want to, we are selling premium stuff. We eventually ended up buying Baleno 1.6. From the Iconic Josh machine to Fiesta 1.6 S, Ford gave us products appealing to enthusiasts. Cannot believe they decided to end their independent run. While products like Explorer would have been ahead of their times earlier, now there definitely is a niche market.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 10th April 2019 at 12:48.
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Old 10th April 2019, 13:17   #63
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

What does the Indian market get perceived as:

a) A highly controlled market with fickle policy makers (sub 4m rule etc.)
b) A herd mentality market with only 50% market open to auto makers
c) A very low cost market with little regulation. So global products have limited takers. Market is highly tilted in favor of one player (IMHO policy favored)
d) Unprofessional - see the number of dealer scams and lack of legal recourse in case of disputes.
High taxes make it very tough.

This makes addressable market for global auto makers very small. Ultimately as customers we are the losers as we lose out on global products. Soon we will be inundated with cheap, low cost platforms and most major manufacturers who could get innovations are deciding to keep away.

A sad day for Indian Car Scene.

~sm
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Old 10th April 2019, 13:30   #64
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

Actually I don't see the Sub-4M rule as something bad. Most of the brands have cars that fit this lenght. weather 4M or 4.1M or 4.2M which is the best compromise can be debated till the cows come home.

The bigger problem is the engine restriction. Say we had same 1.5L restriction for petrol as against the current 1.2L we would have got much better options. Ecosport in 1.5L without high taxes, or i20 with the 1.4 petrol, Jazz with 1.5 would have fulfilled demands of many families.
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Old 10th April 2019, 13:30   #65
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

Reminds me of two threads:
1. Endy quality (missing components in the chassis)
2. Endy price ups and downs after Fortuner launch

Both of those things really created a negative image of the brand in my mind after the old Figo painted a beautiful picture.
The brand has been a 'one-trick pony.' Always only one model bringing traffic to the showroom floor. But in the recent years, nothing is selling too well.

I would've loved to see them continue with their driver-centric approach with the new Figo twins but they became more like Marutis. That left room in the market for a fun-to-drive hatchback. Maruti quickly jumped at it and delivered the new, fun-to-drive Swift. Based on my driving experience, the new Swift is quite a handler compared to the previous generation model.

The Figo Sport was too little, too late. THAT, should've been the standard Figo with the softer suspension being an optional feature/special edition.

And who can forget the massive price drop the EcoSport Diesel got because of the Brezza launch. Ford haven't missed any chance of squeezing pennies from customers who've shown trust in the brand. One of my acquaintances had purchased the EcoSport just a month before. He tried getting some form of compensation but didn't. Maruti, on the other hand, compensated the S-Cross buyers handsomely after the crossover got a price correction.

Really, Maruti Suzuki have come a long way to prove why they're the leaders.

Last edited by MaheshY1 : 10th April 2019 at 13:32.
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Old 10th April 2019, 13:35   #66
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

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Originally Posted by benbsb29 View Post
Being a Ford owner in the Indian market, i recall the extreme resistance from friends and 'well-wishers' on the decision to buy a Ford and not a Maruti.
You echoed my thoughts! I could recall those days when all my relatives and my dad's office colleagues were against my choice of buying a ford. In spite of all this, my dad supported me and told me to go ahead with my decision which I have never regretted till date.

A year back we had brought home a Ford Aspire(diesel) as our first new car and it is really upsetting to hear this news within just one year of purchase.
Even though this JV might not affect the servicing(I hope so) and spare parts availability for the next 2-3 years, what happens after that? I was well aware of the low resale value of Ford cars, but now it's certain that it will dip further.

Now I have to started to worry if my decision was immature and also getting prepared to receive a long list of advices from my people that why I should have listened to them while making such big decisions.

Last edited by Ragasruoban : 10th April 2019 at 13:57. Reason: Small typo and edits
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Old 10th April 2019, 13:39   #67
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

Overall, I think this is a good move by Ford, there is no way the EcoSport, figo and the Endeavour would have survived the latest Korean and Chinese onslaught. This gives it a chance and Ford India customers can rest assured of support for a long term via at least the JV. Plus M&M gains knowledge. A win-win overall.

A smart move is such a market scenario is to consolidate and that is exactly what ford has done. It will not feel pressure to invest more in India and needs to only provide new products that the Indian JV partner, M&M takes the lead and half the financial burden in evaluating, marketing & introducing.
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Old 10th April 2019, 13:55   #68
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

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Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
Nissan maybe, but VW has committed plans for their future products in India,
Success or Failure comes next but at least they show their India strategy in all their global presentations.
Any strategy without new or updated products will only land them in Ford's shoes. Aggressive commitment is needed in India. Hyundai did it and is no. 2 now.

Ford is just milking EcoSport for too long. They bought the Figo with a half hearted approach and non aggressive marketing, yet thinking that it will change their fortunes. Nobody buys a car just because it's priced less, they need to market it's value aggressively. And features are our weakness; you just cannot skimp on features and dream of a runway success. The only right thing they did was to reduce the service cost, which no one easily believed until they first bought and then serviced the car.
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Old 10th April 2019, 14:00   #69
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

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Originally Posted by thoma View Post
Any strategy without new or updated products will only land them in Ford's shoes. Aggressive commitment is needed in India. Hyundai did it and is no. 2 now.
Strategy is clear and new cars will come only from 2020

Link
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Old 10th April 2019, 14:09   #70
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

I think the real winner in this is Toyota Fortuner. JV with M&M is not exactly a selling point so the Endy's sale will take a big hit.

And there is no other worthy competitor to the Fortuner so expect Toyota hiking the price further.
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Old 10th April 2019, 14:09   #71
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

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Originally Posted by serious_maniac View Post
a) A highly controlled market with fickle policy makers (sub 4m rule etc.)
It is equally controlled for all car makers. Fickle policies are also for all. Some auto makers do great, others don't. How is that the fault of the market? Ford/GM were failing in the US too in 2008. Should we blame the US market?

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Originally Posted by serious_maniac View Post
b) A herd mentality market with only 50% market open to auto makers
How come Ecosport was such a craze then? Was it also herd mentality? How about older Figo? How come people buy i20, when baleno and swift are available? There was an analysis in this forum, which showed Hyundai sells more cars per dealership than Maruti. Does not seem herd mentality to me.

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Originally Posted by serious_maniac View Post
c) A very low cost market with little regulation. So global products have limited takers. Market is highly tilted in favor of one player (IMHO policy favored)
Firstly, market with little regulation? I thought you said "highly controlled market". A highly controlled market with little regulation does not make any sense. Secondly, a very low cost market? How come Creta is such a success? Toyota Innova is not exactly cheap. Swift Dzire sells more than Alto in many months. Chevrolet Enjoy failed big time. Ditto Datsun GO. And which of the policy favours one player? Is there any ban on making decent sub 4m cars for international players?

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Originally Posted by serious_maniac View Post
d) Unprofessional - see the number of dealer scams and lack of legal recourse in case of disputes.
High taxes make it very tough.
Again same for every player.

The simple point is that, many of the companies are unable to provide decent products at an acceptable price point. They are duely weeded out in a competitive market place. The only solution is: make an offer that the customer cannot refuse!
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Old 10th April 2019, 14:11   #72
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Originally Posted by tharian View Post
Not an expert, but I don't think you need to be apprehensive about the purchase decision because of the news.
It is not that spare parts and service are going to become non-existent. The company is going to still exist in India , except that they have collaborated with Mahindra for operations and all we can do as owners, is to wait and watch regarding the servicing bit.
You can take the delivery without any doubt. The only thing that's going to take a hit is the resale value of Ford Cars in my opinion.
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Old 10th April 2019, 14:14   #73
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

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Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
Strategy is clear and new cars will come only from 2020

Link
Even Ford was planning for 2020 launches IIRC. It's only in presentations VW is launching cars. Apart from all the planning and news, I just hope and pray VW don't follow Ford. The options in the market are shrinking on one side and expanding in the SUV category!

If at all Ford was holding the majority stake in the JV, I would have taken them a bit more seriously. But this is clearly an exit strategy (long term) which they ought to achieve.
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Old 10th April 2019, 14:24   #74
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

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Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
You can take the delivery without any doubt. The only thing that's going to take a hit is the resale value of Ford Cars in my opinion.
Re-sale value was nothing great for Ford anyway, especially if it is a petrol Ford.
I guess with this and the rumor that is going to start that 'Ford is leaving', we may as well keep the car for good.
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Old 10th April 2019, 14:55   #75
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

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Originally Posted by tharian View Post
Re-sale value was nothing great for Ford anyway, especially if it is a petrol Ford.
I guess with this and the rumor that is going to start that 'Ford is leaving', we may as well keep the car for good.
Yup I agree. Now I feel like I will at least maintain the car as long as 10 years if things go fine.

Ford Cars were always good products. They failed in aggressively marketing them. According to me, Ford Aspire & the Ecosport are the best cars in their segment. But since Ecosport had the first mover advantage and the looks and build quality, it sells 4-5k units per month. It it was launched now it wouldn't have managed 4-5k units per month.
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