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Old 10th April 2019, 15:00   #76
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Default Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

Just looking at the big picture, has ford become too conservative world over?

During the recession period, they turned around the company by letting go off many brands like JLR and Volvo. And post that they rationalised their range, talking about one world, one ford etc, meaning a standardised range for the world over.

Now, they are sort cutting down in India, exiting Russia and so on. So the question is, has ford now become a much smaller player than it used to be? It no longer has additional brands in its umbrella, seemingly content with the American market. Outside the American continent, they do not figure in the top selling brands in Europe and Asia.
And unlike say other conglomerates like VW, Renault-Nissan-Mitusubishi, Toyota-Suzuki, Fiat-Chrysler, they have not forged strong tie ups or mergers with other brands. So are they fading in to an America only car maker? Content with a smaller, but guaranteed bottomline in America rather than taking risks else where.
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Old 10th April 2019, 15:21   #77
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

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Originally Posted by motorworks View Post
Just looking at the big picture, has ford become too conservative world over?

And unlike say other conglomerates like VW, Renault-Nissan-Mitusubishi, Toyota-Suzuki, Fiat-Chrysler, they have not forged strong tie ups or mergers with other brands.
They are forging an alliance with VW on certain technologies( autonomous driving) and pick-up trucks.

CEO Jim Hackett: Trust that Ford is 'turning the corner'


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Old 10th April 2019, 15:21   #78
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

India is a nightmare.

I think whenever India is mentioned in a boardroom of a global OEM, a shudder goes up their spine.

They came with the hope of conquering the world's largest untapped market, but instead they got chewed and spit out.

Indians are weird (to them). We are a poor nation ($2000 per capita income), but our demands/nakhre are like a developed country's. We want premium hatchbacks at entry-level hatchback prices, sedans made from hatchbacks in chopped and unchopped sizes, diesel engines, cheap automatics, premium small crossovers, has absolutely no interest in pick-ups and station wagons and want MPVs with fake wood and captain seats for the price of hatchbacks. The most popular models do not work here, Indians have no interest your Golfs and Accords and Corollas.

Government regulations (which changes every-time they sneeze in Delhi) are tough, with high tariffs, investment clearance, safety norms, fuel quality norms, pollution norms which are as good as advanced economies and expensive to implement.

India is really an enigma.

If you are not Maruti, there is just a $billion or two which a company can aim for, revenue-wise. For many, it is too small a pie to commit for anything. Maruti's revenue's itself is a small number compared to the behemoths like Ford, Toyota and their biggest markets.

VW, Toyota, Ford and GM...they have bigger problems at their hand. Electrification, mobility, connected cars, Industry 4.0, all the buzzwords that you can think off. Sure, India might become a 5 million per annum market, then 10 million, but I think to them, this is not worth fighting for. They are consolidating and keeping an eye on profits rather than growth.

I say that is fair. Those who wish to leave, can leave. This is the market, we are what we are, and it is upto the auto-makers to work harder to stay here. This is not 90s India where launching a car was like giving water to a parched man. Like the other day, VW launched a Black and White edition of their cars. If they are going to take a market as a joke, the customers are going to do the same to them.

And they will continue to reward auto companies like Hyundai (and now Kia), who has never taken half measures, right from day one.

Last edited by avishar : 10th April 2019 at 15:37.
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Old 10th April 2019, 15:30   #79
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

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Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
... but VW has committed plans for their future products in India, ...
Well, this is what GM too told us before suddenly pulling the plug in the Indian market. I have EcoSport and am a Ford fan (had the previous Figo as well). Now with GM gone, Ford following suit, I am scared to buy a VW/Skoda/Nissan/Renault. Ford was in a better situation than Nissan/Renault especially and there is no guarantee that these companies will stay.

I bought a Ford car for its build quality and driving pleasure. Question is, whom will I go to if I have to buy a well built, highly stable car with great driving dynamics?
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Old 10th April 2019, 15:33   #80
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

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Originally Posted by gopalnt View Post
I am scared to buy a VW/Skoda/---
I bought a Ford car for its build quality and driving pleasure. Question is, whom will I go to if I have to buy a well built, highly stable car with great driving dynamics?
You should wait and see the strategy unfold to reality and then decide, giving a time frame of 2021.
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Old 10th April 2019, 15:36   #81
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

Let's see what Ford brings to the table in this JV (Let's focus on the sub 4m vehicles first),
1. Figo
2. Freestyle
3. Aspire
4. EcoSport

With the following engines and transmissions,
1. 1.2L 3-cylinder Ti-VCT (Dragon) petrol + 5-speed MT
2. 1.5L 3-cylinder Ti-VCT (Dragon) petrol + 5-speed MT/6-speed AT [TC]
3. 1.5L 4-cylinder TDCI Diesel + 5-speed MT
4. 1.0L 3-cylinder EcoBoost turbo petrol + 6-speed MT (Forget this!)

First things first, there's no confirmation on the oil burner 1.5 TDCI will be BS-VI compliant. Assuming it comes under the axe, Mahindra has to fill in its BS-VI ready 1.5L 3 pot mill here. (Marrazo/XUV-3OO diesel unit)
Considering the age of the TDCI engine this seems quite possible. In addition, the extra cost of developing one for BS-VI compliance!

The petrol mills are developed recently and should be BS-VI ready. If not then again, it is Ford's nearsightedness!
The 1.5L 3 cylinder Dragon can be an addition to the Mahindra vehicles, XUV-3OO(Sport), TUV-3OO, Marrazo? In addition, Ford brings in the Auto box with this engine.

Mahindra can forget the KUV-1OO, and focus on selling the Figo triplets (Figo, Freestyle & Aspire). This would be enough to strengthen their 3rd position in the market.
EcoSport is a brand in itself and should be kept that way! (Mahindra please read this)

I see a WIN-WIN, in this situation.

Coming to the resale value discussion, one who bought a Ford knows it and will not like to sell it in the short term. On the other hand, time to buy a pre-worshiped Ford EcoSport diesel!

--surjaonwheelz

Last edited by surjaonwheelz : 10th April 2019 at 15:53.
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Old 10th April 2019, 15:40   #82
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

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Originally Posted by avishar View Post

Government regulations (which changes every-time they sneeze in Delhi) are tough, with high tariffs, investment clearance, safety norms, fuel quality norms, pollution norms which are as good as advanced economies and expensive to implement.
these are the main problems and eat into profitability. Our tax structure is too high, and pricing for most popular models by international car majors goes for a sixer with this kind of huge taxes and other overheads and net result affordability and marketability suffers. And then there is the premium paid for petrol and diesel which are priced exhorbitantly in India thus leaving a 'hot-cold' relationship with cars at best of times (for middle class).

Let us analyze the succesful manufacturers:

1. Maruti: Started by GoI initiative and has tentacles deep into system, can make tin cans without a bother for safety regulations and can get away with it.

2. Tata/Mahindra: Indian companies again have deep influence in system and know how to manage the system being the oldest players.

3. Toyota: King of resale, value for money, indestructible .. appeals to thrifty Indian psyche naturally.

4. Hyundai: Like a cabaret dancer cavorting into hearts and pockets of spectators, hyundai has found out how to be a premium maruti and has assured customers of ownership satisfaction by giving same kit on local and international models.

5. Ford, GM: In front of the above competitors, they are like fish out of water. Neither they have capability for a cabaret like hyundai nor do they have deep influence in system. They get shafted by govt, consumers, political system and general prevailing climate.

6. Skoda, VW: Once upon a time when skoda was going it alone, it was hyundai++ and was firmly entrenched in hearts & minds. But VW was/is a drag.

7. Merc/bmw/audi: The need for people to stand out with expensive cars, the need for people to get respect and attention is what drives demand for these. Until economy does well, these folks are in autopilot. They capitalise on a certain weakness, that is not easy for people to put away.

8. FCA: engine-vengine wallahs, as long as you need engines, they are here.


So as you can see, GM/Ford do not fit in this jigsaw.
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Old 10th April 2019, 15:45   #83
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

http://https://timesofindia.indiatim...w/68805740.cms

Quote:
“There is a need to expand the strategic alliance when it completes its three-year term in September 2020. A joint venture will happen in all likelihood and talks are moving
very aggressively on this front,” one of the sources said. However, modalities regarding the holding of each partner in the new venture are being worked out, with
discussions being held between top officials of M&M and Ford.

Sources said that Ford’s reorientation of operations should not be compared to the fate of fellow American General Motors in India. While GM decided to exit India
operations fully around two years ago, Ford has plans to maintain its presence in the market. “We have joint ventures in many markets across the world, including China and
Russia. So not much should be read into any re-organisation of operations when it happens in India.” The JV will also help M&M to venture out in overseas markets.
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Old 10th April 2019, 15:53   #84
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

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So not much should be read into any re-organisation of operations when it happens in India.”
I dont think so. They are basically handing over the risks to Mahindra in lieu of a token market presence. Shared platforms will be created but there is not much 'Ford' about it. It is quite an important move and I am not sure how the customers will react to it. I honestly thing this is a VW-Skoda level of debacle by Ford, but very good for Mahindra.

Also, according to the export thread, Ford was the largest exporter of cars in India last year. So you see, they are doing a GM, but they are not exiting the market as a brand. Keeping a toehold till better times prevail?

Last edited by avishar : 10th April 2019 at 15:59.
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Old 10th April 2019, 15:54   #85
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

Guys, I honestly thing we should wait for more information before speculating more. I see posts where potential buyers are now doubting their choices !

One thing that is 100% sure is that Ford is not exiting the market, so let's all take a step back, wait for an official statement and then analyse that.
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Old 10th April 2019, 16:09   #86
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

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I just got myself an Ecosport. This news is making me worried. What if it goes the Fiat way? Hopefully it is not a phased exit.
Exactly my thoughts too!! I have a 2012 Global Fiesta with the DCT paired 1.5 Petrol. The DCT has its share of niggles and with the fairly competent Ford service, I was able to manage and prolong the ownership. Am very skeptical now about this JV and it reminds me of the FIAT-TATA JV!!! A horror show in every respect

Am sure this will give sleepless nights to anybody who has plonked big bucks on a ford vehicle.
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Old 10th April 2019, 16:25   #87
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

This news should and will worry only auto enthusiasts like us. The average Indian consumer will not miss Ford as a brand for too long, because for the average Indian consumer a car must have 1. Gadgetry 2. Sunroof. 3 Excellent mileage even it means puny tyres. service centre in every village or small town etc, etc etc.
Ride handling, NCAP safety ratings, power and all the basic stuff which makes us enthusiasts drool is not for the average Indian consumer. In such "demanding" market conditions, brands like Chevrolet, Fiat and Ford will not be able to generate revenue or profits. I've truly believe that European and American cars are the benchmark for safety, performance and comfort.Sadly the amount of time that these companies invested in getting their designs and technology perfected for any eventuality on road has not been appreciated by the Indian consumer.
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Old 10th April 2019, 16:28   #88
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

Fact is that the resale will be hampered significantly over the years. It will not be as drastic the overnight drop in Chevrolet resale values, but potential buyers should be prepared for the second-hand car market depreciating them more as compared to existing car manufacturers.

Just think about it: In 2026, would YOU easily buy/advise buying a Aspire/Freestyle/Figo run 50,000 km? The typical second-hand small car buyer (market folks) are quite fussy about continuing spares (especially body panels and glass items), and will definitely factor this into their thinking.

Please note that I am not even factoring in the inevitable move towards EVs or hybrids here either.
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Old 10th April 2019, 16:32   #89
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

Another "soft" exit by another American brand. It's just a matter of time before they exit fully, we all know what happened to FIAT-Tata JV and we all know where FIAT is now. So as car buyers: be wary of buying Ford products. Looks like the Indian marketplace is in the consolidation phase and absolutely new entrants like Kia and MG making it even more difficult for those "low selling long termers" here. On that note one must be wary of brands like Jeep also, peddling just a single product and not able to deliver an automatic with a diesel engine. Those with their fingers on the pulse of the market are able to wade through the rough and tumble of the Indian marketplace. The only guys sitting pretty are those in the "premium" (Germans and above) end of the market unless there is a shock in the coming General Election.

Last edited by Durango Dude : 10th April 2019 at 16:40.
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Old 10th April 2019, 16:34   #90
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

Well - I think the JV says it all. A minority stake in the JV for Ford does not augur well for the Indian customers and also tells us what Ford is thinking about their future in the Indian market.

We as consumers are better off avoiding products from such JVs which never works in India or until such time there is clear cut visibility. Eventually Ford will exit from India some years down the line. This is about sustaining a business and growing in a market and not about one or two products.
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