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Old 19th March 2020, 15:40   #256
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Default Re: The Volkswagen T-Roc, now launched @ Rs 19.99 lakhs

This car is an handsome one in the lot. Germans have a way of adding that X Factor that shows evidently on the car. T ROC sure does rock. If I’d a budget of 25L, this would have surely made a compelling buy amongst the sea of Seltos, Creta, Hector which is way more than common now.

But, petrol motor and no diesel is a bit of a bummer. But, DSG transmission should make up for it mostly. Haven’t driven a DSG equipped car but from the reviews heard, it’s a cracker. So this car shouldn’t be a lame one either. Should tickle the enthusiast in you for sure.

Let’s see how it gathers sales against the current slowdown, brand’s after sales threat. Good luck VW.

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RV

Last edited by gururajrv : 19th March 2020 at 15:41.
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Old 19th March 2020, 19:39   #257
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Default Re: The Volkswagen T-Roc, now launched @ Rs 19.99 lakhs

I think this is one car which is not going to sell whatever VW does.

We Indians don't need a well engineered, fun to drive, settled mechanical, robust build quality vehicles. We need "Hello ##, Please open the sunroof." , HUD display, Tyre pressure monitor, tons of chrome everywhere, LED and flashy DRL's".

Jokes apart, if one wants to stand out in crowd and really loves driving, this is one of the most compelling buy now in the market. Any day and every day better than Seltos 1.4 GTX or Creta 1.4 turbo. Even I would have thought to get it in place of my Jeep Compass 1.4.

For me, as it stands now ( Petrol Automatic is where confusion prevails) :

Best Diesel automatic under 25 lacs - Harrier
Best Diesel manual under 25 lacs - Jeep Compass
Best Petrol Automatic - Octavia 1.8/T- Roc/ Jeep Compass/ Seltos 1.4/Creta 1.4
Best Petrol Manual - Seltos 1.4/Octavia1.4/Creta 1.4
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Old 19th March 2020, 20:36   #258
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I am getting old and unable to digest the series of quirky Chinese and Korean designs unleashed on us. Finally a vehicle which is soothing to the eyes. Such vehicles should succeed but with a petrol only option, things are not going to be easy. SUV owners used to the fuel economy of diesels will feel the pinch. Let's see how it plays out. For now, it is wait and watch for me.
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Old 19th March 2020, 20:41   #259
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Default Re: The Volkswagen T-Roc, now launched @ Rs 19.99 lakhs

For a second this was it, especially with the pricing, on road vijayawada is 24L, compared to a creta for 20.5L, this thing, a CBU, built like a tank and rides much better with that multi-link suspension for 3L extra, just shut up and have my money VW. I was about to book this car but can't get over a few things that look like deal breakers for me

1. Hate those plastic dash/interiors, looks straight out of a 6L polo, manual driver seat adjust is so weird in this segment.

2. 160mm ground clearance, I have been driving hatches and sedans, I want an SUV for a change and the perks of high ground clearance for once, 160mm just doesn't cut it :(, is it really just 160mm, will the car feel like you are sitting in a hatch/sedan more than an SUV?

I love the standout design, colors and the obvious robust build. A European car for me any day, my first car was polo and its been 9 years I've changed 4 cars Polo, New Ford Fiesta, Skoda Rapid and we have one Suzuki (wagonr auto) in our garage and every time I drive it, it just makes me realize I can never settle for features or resale values and all those other factors compared to a well built, great handling car which is why I am not able to commit to seltos/new creta even though they are compelling products.

From the videos at least, the Karoq looks more of a complete package to me, it feels like a proper D1-D2 car as the interiors look like from a segment above, but I'm not sure if both these would feel same like vento/rapid?

Are the plastics and back seat (another con of T roc, lacks under-thigh support, space) and ground clearance better, interiors plusher than t-roc, anyone who had hands-on with these cars in auto expo can please confirm?

Last edited by autohead115 : 19th March 2020 at 21:02.
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Old 20th March 2020, 00:05   #260
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Default Re: The Volkswagen T-Roc, now launched @ Rs 19.99 lakhs

Why on earth have cars gotten so expensive (and unreliable too with all those electronics and puny engines), more so over the past 15 years? I have never bought a used car up till now but it definitely seems like a much more pragmatic option these days.
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Old 20th March 2020, 00:21   #261
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Default Re: Volkswagen T-Roc spotted in India EDIT : Now launched at Rs. 19.99 Lakhs

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Originally Posted by Mr_Bean View Post
Considering the DSG is comprised of mechatronics unit and clutch pack, isn't torque cap meant to protect the clutch pack? Majority of the warranty claims are for mechatronics unit. The chances of the mechatronics packing up in our traffic condition is high and this torque cap may not prevent the failure.
The DQ200, which is a dry clutch gearbox, is the one which has been plagued by DSG failures. The chief reason for this is that the gearbox used synthetic oil. So what exactly happens?

Synthetic oil contains Sulphur. Now, when the car is driven in stop-go traffic, and if you add hot and humid conditions to that (India, for example), electrolysis happens, and the Sulphur gets deposited in the form of conductive particles along the oil.

The computer now detects this as a short circuit, and cuts off the clutch, which is why you don’t get the “Drive” mode when your DSG fails.

These problems have largely vanished once VW switched the oil to mineral oil. It is, otherwise, a fantastic gearbox.
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Old 20th March 2020, 01:45   #262
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Default Re: The Volkswagen T-Roc, now launched @ Rs 19.99 lakhs

I'm not going to say the pricing is bang on, or even great.

At 25 lakh on the road, it's not cheap for what is essentially a low rent Golf on stilts.

And when you consider that for the same price you could have gotten an Octavia 1.8 TSI just a few weeks ago, it does not exactly represent phenomenal value.

Let's not forget that this pricing is introductory, and the fact that once the 2500 units get sold out (and it will in 4 months or so), VW will start local assembly and cut corners where they shouldn't.

BUT..

And this is a big but..

What else do we have in the segment that challenges this car?

The Hector and Harrier as far as I am concerned are in a different kind of segment, where people looking to buy them won't look at anything else, by virtue of their presence on the road and the space they have to offer.

It's the Creta / Seltos / Compass petrol cars that are going to be hit by this car. For just a little more, you get a German CBU (if you buy it now) with a sophisticated drive train, sorted suspension and dynamics, great features-list (panoramic sunroof, virtual cockpit, etc) and smart / classy styling.

A year down the line, the T-Roc may not be worth it thanks to the revised pricing and localization. But right now, it's not bad value at all.

If I had the money and were in the market for a compact practical car, the T-Roc would be it!

I just hope VW does not do a Polo on it by localizing it to the point where it just doesn't command the inevitable premium that it eventually will command.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 20th March 2020 at 01:47.
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Old 20th March 2020, 08:37   #263
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Default Re: The Volkswagen T-Roc, now launched @ Rs 19.99 lakhs

I think pricing is good considering all the specs and features. Many still buy Polo GT at 11 lakhs on road when they can buy seudo-SUVs like Brezza or Nexon or Venue etc. It not always about space. There will be a segment for whom space is secondary compared to safety, build quality, engine-n-transmission combo, features etc

Last edited by Comrade : 20th March 2020 at 08:39.
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Old 20th March 2020, 08:39   #264
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Default Re: The Volkswagen T-Roc, now launched @ Rs 19.99 lakhs

The only area where this car needs improvement is rear seat space, which the Karoq seems to have more of - the 2 extra airbags that the Karoq will come with will surely be a plus too but I'm getting the feeling the Karoq will out price itself from day 1.

This car has heart - have to say that! I am waiting for the Karoq launch to take a final decision.
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Old 20th March 2020, 09:21   #265
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Default Re: Volkswagen T-Roc spotted in India EDIT : Now launched at Rs. 19.99 Lakhs

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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
2500 limit is for entire Skoda - Audi - Volkswagen - Lamborghini group. Out of these 200 went for Skoda vRS 245. The rest will be distributed with the Karoq, T-Roc and Tiguan Allspace. My guess 500 each of T-roc and Karoq and maybe 300-400 of Allspace for the entire year.
If we listen to the conversation between Hormazd and Steffen in autocar interview, do I understand correctly, that VW brand got 100% quota of 2500 in 2019-20. Skoda will get their bigger quota in the next FY. Isn't so ? Looks like they are anticipating good sales of this car.

conversation from 5th minute onward is of the quota topic.
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Old 20th March 2020, 09:44   #266
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Default Re: The Volkswagen T-Roc, now launched @ Rs 19.99 lakhs

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Originally Posted by Comrade View Post
I think pricing is good considering all the specs and features. Many still buy Polo GT at 11 lakhs on road when they can buy seudo-SUVs like Brezza or Nexon or Venue etc. It not always about space. There will be a segment for whom space is secondary compared to safety, build quality, engine-n-transmission combo, features etc
Exactly. They don't do high volumes but they are slowly transforming themselves into an aspirational brand that makes High-quality cars. There is a segment for it and If I have to buy a 10L car, I would take a Polo GT anytime over the pseudo-SUVs. I drive a Rapid MPI when I had lot of options for a car that provides better fuel economy and Performance, But none of the cars gave me the confidence behind the wheels like Rapid/Vento/GT.
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Old 20th March 2020, 09:47   #267
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Default Re: The Volkswagen T-Roc, now launched @ Rs 19.99 lakhs

Why doesn't this have a diesel? I don't get it. Pretty much all it's competition has it, it is already competing against a very capable petrol motor in the compass, which only makes up about 30% of the sales, I think. So basically they have no response to the 2.0 Multijet which basically drives any sales that the compass gets now.

Car itself looks really nice, has good features list, with a good diesel motor, maybe a beefed up BS6 version of the 1.5 TDI ( ~ 140-150 bhp ) would have made this even more attractive.

Last edited by SaiSW : 20th March 2020 at 09:49.
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Old 20th March 2020, 10:23   #268
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Default Re: The Volkswagen T-Roc, now launched @ Rs 19.99 lakhs

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Why doesn't this have a diesel? I don't get it. Pretty much all it's competition has it, it is already competing against a very capable petrol motor in the compass, which only makes up about 30% of the sales, I think. So basically they have no response to the 2.0 Multijet which basically drives any sales that the compass gets now.

Car itself looks really nice, has good features list, with a good diesel motor, maybe a beefed up BS6 version of the 1.5 TDI ( ~ 140-150 bhp ) would have made this even more attractive.
You should take a look at the Autocar interview with Steffen Knapp that's been shared above by tristis2008. He's said that it's an initial step to bring in petrol because of the preferences of their current customers and also that it's cheaper to import petrol but that they are testing Euro 6 Diesels in India to assess their performance in Indian conditions. I think they're going to aim for localisation of the diesel as it will be significantly cheaper for them to use localised engines than imported units.

I don't really get the fascination with diesel motors so please do enlighten me why we Indians are gaga over it.
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Old 20th March 2020, 10:30   #269
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Default Re: The Volkswagen T-Roc, now launched @ Rs 19.99 lakhs

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I don't really get the fascination with diesel motors so please do enlighten me why we Indians are gaga over it.
Well for one, a turbo diesel will have loads of torque. Indians are accustomed to opting for diesels when it comes to bigger cars, maybe it's because diesels will give respectable mileage compared to similar capacity petrol.

And in my opinion, most importantly, for bigger cars, diesel has more resale value.
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Old 20th March 2020, 11:31   #270
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Default Re: The Volkswagen T-Roc, now launched @ Rs 19.99 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post

Let's not forget that this pricing is introductory, and the fact that once the 2500 units get sold out (and it will in 4 months or so), VW will start local assembly and cut corners where they shouldn't.

BUT..

And this is a big but..

What else do we have in the segment that challenges this car?

The Hector and Harrier as far as I am concerned are in a different kind of segment, where people looking to buy them won't look at anything else, by virtue of their presence on the road and the space they have to offer.

It's the Creta / Seltos / Compass petrol cars that are going to be hit by this car. For just a little more, you get a German CBU (if you buy it now) with a sophisticated drive train, sorted suspension and dynamics, great features-list (panoramic sunroof, virtual cockpit, etc) and smart / classy styling.

A year down the line, the T-Roc may not be worth it thanks to the revised pricing and localization. But right now, it's not bad value at all.

If I had the money and were in the market for a compact practical car, the T-Roc would be it!

I just hope VW does not do a Polo on it by localizing it to the point where it just doesn't command the inevitable premium that it eventually will command.
I don't think you can compare to Polo or Vento. It's more like the Tiguan and Passat and Jetta. Right now the T-Roc is a CBU but when they start local assembly, it's not going to be high on local content. It will be more like CKD like what the Tiguan, Passat, Octavia and Kodiaq. So there's no real scope for cutting corners for such low volumes. At 20L ex-showroom for a small petrol only crossover, it's not going to make sense to localize heavily.

Only thing is they will recover the CBU tax they absorbed for the first batch. The CBU vs CKD for VW/Skoda type of products is a moot point cause even the CKD cars were on par in quality since they were just imported kits assembled here. The T-ROC is going to go the same way.

My point is don't be blown away by the 19.99L price tag for a "CBU" cause that's not really a big deal. The Octavia was the same price for a CKD but has way better overall quality than the T-Roc. It may not be a fair comparo but it's a bigger car, more powerful engine and much better interior quality. The car that will have corners cut is going to be the Taigun which is the locally manufactured compact SUV next year.

The T-Roc will continue with the "premium" tag.

My feeling has been that the T-ROC is not priced sweetly but it offers a proposition that nobody can offer. The Creta/Seltos may not appeal to those looking for european build. The Harrier/Hector are more utilitarian and way bigger in size. The compass is not great performance, FE and reliability in petrol AT guise.

The T-Roc offers a chic exterior design coupled with Euro feel and drive quality for a little more than the mass market Hyundai/Kia options. It's also a perfect upgrade for anyone who has a Polo or Vento and does not have any upgrade options since the Tiguan is now priced in another bracket and no longer compact.

My only grouse with the T-ROC is a few missing features like powered seats with memory, the beats audio with subwoofer and the powered tailgate. Would have then made it properly loaded. I can't ask for soft touch materials as this is the case worldwide where everyone is unhappy with the hard plastics vs the VW golf.
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