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Old 15th April 2020, 13:02   #316
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Default Re: Volkswagen T-Roc could be assembled locally

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Originally Posted by nik_kapur View Post
I find it hard to believe that they have managed to sell 2500 T-ROCs during this lockdown period. Thats the full years quota.
Its priced well for a CBU but still doesn't offer the VFM of a CRETA or SELTOS.
Its a better car in every aspect (i would say that about all VWs compared to the Japs and Koreans) but i doubt it seriously that it had that many takers.
Size matters and the TROC is smaller than the competition.

I think the first batch means the number of cars which were imported in the first batch and not the complete quota of 2500 cars. They probably imported a fraction of this quota for the initial launch and the must have been sold to the dealers by bow.

Because selling 2500 T-roc cars with the way market is right now, and zero test drives is almost impossible.
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Old 15th April 2020, 13:08   #317
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Default Re: Volkswagen T-Roc could be assembled locally

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Originally Posted by Amit_breakfree View Post
I think 2,500 is the upper limit for the company, in this case VW. So 2,500 will include T-ROC plus other similar CBU products which they are planning to launch. So ideally they have not sold 2,500 T-ROC's and sold what was T-ROC's share out of the 2,500.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
Based on online reads, 2500 is the limit for a single model and not a combination of various models. The reason why there are no 'variants' and only one spec in such 'homologation free' imports.
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Old 15th April 2020, 13:10   #318
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Default Re: Volkswagen T-Roc could be assembled locally

March sales figure of VW does not include T-Roc numbers. Looks like dealers have confirmed bookings for the cars they shipped in the initial batch (I don't think it is more than couple of hundreds).
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Old 15th April 2020, 13:58   #319
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Default Re: Volkswagen T-Roc could be assembled locally

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Originally Posted by lionell View Post
Based on online reads, 2500 is the limit for a single model and not a combination of various models. The reason why there are no 'variants' and only one spec in such 'homologation free' imports.
Got it. Thanks for the correction. Then this count would be fraction of 2,500 which was allocated in the first batch. Like 500 of first 2,500 of T-ROCs.
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Old 15th April 2020, 14:24   #320
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Default Re: Volkswagen T-Roc could be assembled locally

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Originally Posted by Amit_breakfree View Post
I think 2,500 is the upper limit for the company, in this case VW. So 2,500 will include T-ROC plus other similar CBU products which they are planning to launch. So ideally they have not sold 2,500 T-ROC's and sold what was T-ROC's share out of the 2,500.
Correct, as per the GO below the limit is 2500 M1/L category vehicles per legal qualifying entity per year.

https://morth.nic.in/sites/default/f...20vehicles.pdf

Further, as Skoda-VW-Audi jointly operate in India as Skoda Auto VW India PL (SAVWIPL, https://skoda-vw.co.in/about-us/), they are allowed a maximum of 2500 between all brands.

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Based on online reads, 2500 is the limit for a single model and not a combination of various models. The reason why there are no 'variants' and only one spec in such 'homologation free' imports.
Incorrect in my opinion.

Last edited by itwasntme : 15th April 2020 at 14:27.
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Old 16th April 2020, 14:12   #321
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Default Re: Volkswagen T-Roc could be assembled locally

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Originally Posted by prateekchanana View Post
I think the first batch means the number of cars which were imported in the first batch and not the complete quota of 2500 cars.
Prateek nailed it. VW says that the first shipment has been sold out, but without specifying the exact number in the shipment, that statement is pointless (e.g. it could be just 50 cars in the shipment).

Plus, considering that the T-Roc was launched just days before we entered the coronavirus crisis means these cars are definitely sitting on dealer lots.

That said, if VW plans to assemble it locally, all I can say is . It shows commitment from a brand that has largely given up on India. I'll be very happy if the news is confirmed.
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Old 16th April 2020, 23:15   #322
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It is very clear from Steffen Knapp's recent interviews that, based on the success, they will consider CKD and local assemble route, if not locally manufacture.

Coming to the topic of bookings, I also feel that they might have fully booked the first lot, may be few hundreds. I was told by SA sometime back that the second lot would only come based on sales of first lot and substantial fresh bookings.

Given the situation now, I wonder if they really will have to go for second shipment anytime soon. In fact, VW is anticipating some cancellations, as was evident in Steffen's interview with SVP. Before the corona situation, I was actually anticipating some cancellations after looking at car's size and interior quality.

Slightly off topic here; in his interview with SVP, he was also mentioning about bringing diesel engine in bigger cars, wonder if T-Roc would qualify to be one.

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Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
This exercise is to have the T ROC as a good benchmark and aspiration for the slightly smaller T-Cross due in late 2020.
In his recent interview with SVP, Steffen Knapp ruled out T-Cross, as its more of a CUV and unsuitable for India, according to him. In fact Taigun has borrowed lot from T-Cross and is designed for Indian tastes. Taigun is due only in 2021, may be mid 2021 as per him.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 20th April 2020 at 09:35. Reason: Back to back posts merged / spacing
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Old 17th April 2020, 20:25   #323
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Default Re: Volkswagen T-Roc could be assembled locally

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Originally Posted by Amit_breakfree View Post
I think 2,500 is the upper limit for the company, in this case VW. So 2,500 will include T-ROC plus other similar CBU products which they are planning to launch. So ideally they have not sold 2,500 T-ROC's and sold what was T-ROC's share out of the 2,500.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
2500 CBU import limit is the max. allowed for the whole company in a single financial year. Since Skoda & VW have been merged in to a single entity, so this is the limit for all CBU models across the two brands which include (for FY 2019-20) the Octavia RS (200 units), Tiguan Allspace, I am assuming about 500-700 units and the rest would be for T Roc. In one of the earlier interviews Steffen Knapp had mentioned that they have utilised the full quota of 2500 vehicles for FY 2019-20. In fact he had mentioned that one of the ships carrying a consignment of T Rocs could not be traced and they were worried they may miss the import deadline date, but it so happened the ship's name had changed and they were finally able to trace it and the consignment arrived on time.

As per VW, they had already received 500+ bookings for T Roc by 17th March, i.e. before the launch and the price disclosure. Once the price was announced, the bookings must have accelerated , so it is quite possible the entire lot of 1500+ T Rocs is probably already sold out & seeing the good response they are considering assembling it in India.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 20th April 2020 at 09:36. Reason: Spacing
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Old 17th April 2020, 20:34   #324
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Default Re: Volkswagen T-Roc could be assembled locally

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Originally Posted by Timothy View Post
As per VW, they had already received 500+ bookings for T Roc by 17th March, i.e. before the launch and the price disclosure. Once the price was announced, the bookings must have accelerated , so it is quite possible the entire lot of 1500+ T Rocs is probably already sold out & seeing the good response they are considering assembling it in India.
Considering the lockdown, I don't think there would be any significant number of bookings after March 17th. More than half of the bookings will be canceled owing to the price and change in purchase plans due to the uncertainties around the economy.
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Old 18th April 2020, 06:32   #325
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Default Re: Volkswagen T-Roc could be assembled locally

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Originally Posted by Timothy View Post
2500 CBU import limit is the max. allowed for the whole company in a single financial year. Since Skoda & VW have been merged in to a single entity, so this is the limit for all CBU models across the two brands which include (for FY 2019-20) the Octavia RS (200 units), Tiguan Allspace, I am assuming about 500-700 units and the rest would be for T Roc. .
Donít forget the Skoda Karoq, that is also a CBU import. It is a better package than the T-Roc due to its truer SUV shape, larger dimensions, nifty features etc. If priced at around 22 lakhs, it will sell much more than the T-Roc. They have got to keep a good share of the quota for that car.
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Old 18th April 2020, 19:59   #326
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Default Re: Volkswagen T-Roc could be assembled locally

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Originally Posted by 84.monsoon View Post
Don’t forget the Skoda Karoq, that is also a CBU import. It is a better package than the T-Roc due to its truer SUV shape, larger dimensions, nifty features etc. If priced at around 22 lakhs, it will sell much more than the T-Roc. They have got to keep a good share of the quota for that car.
Yes of course Karoq should be an excellent SUV and in probability in the league of the 5 seat Tiguan but with a 1.5L Tsi petrol mill and newer features. They company had almost initially decided not to bring the Karoq to India as they thought it may be too expensive for our market. But now since they can import 2500 units as CBUs, this will allow them to first test the waters on its price acceptability before going for local assembly. So initially it will be a CBU before they decide on the CKD route. But their quota will apply for FY 2020-21. Companies can import upto 2500 cars in each financial year in CBU or SKD forms without the need for getting their vehicles certified in India.

It would be great though if the company eventually decides to manufacture the 1.5L Tsi mill in India like they are doing for the 1L Tsi engine along with the new MQB AO IN platform. This will allow them to offer their excellent vehicles at very attractive pricing.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 20th April 2020 at 09:36. Reason: Spacing
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Old 18th April 2020, 20:21   #327
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Default Re: Volkswagen T-Roc could be assembled locally

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Originally Posted by Timothy View Post
Companies can import upto 2500 cars in each financial year in CBU or SKD forms without the need for getting their vehicles certified in India.
Just a little correction - the 2,500 annual limit is exclusively for CBUs only. SKD will not qualify here.
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Old 18th April 2020, 21:40   #328
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Default Re: The Volkswagen T-Roc, now launched @ Rs 19.99 lakhs

If you look at the sales figure of Skoda cars that sell for around 20-22L the average number of units they sell is approx. 200-300 per month. That makes it 2400-3600 units a year which sits right around the yearly quota of CBU cars.

And the same applies to VW cars too. (in fact the numbers are much lower in case of VW). People just don't buy enough VW/Skoda cars. So what makes us think VW or Skoda would sell more than 2500 units a year and then start manufacturing in India? and that too to swhat end? sell 1000 units more than the CBU quota? 3000-3500 max?

Also these are not super cars/luxury cars that the pricing would reduce substantially if manufactured in India; these are 20L cars which might see a marginal reduction in price not giving substantial benefits to the manufacturer.

In a scenario such as this, setting up an entire assembly instead of importing the cars; not sure if it would make sense.

Last edited by Pancham : 18th April 2020 at 21:44.
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Old 18th April 2020, 22:34   #329
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Default The Volkswagen T-Roc, now launched @ Rs 19.99 lakhs

The objective for them is not to sell the full quota of 2500 units. Even if they did, assuming a profit of $2-3k per unit, they would make a profit of $5-7Million. This is a drop in the ocean for a $300Billion corporation. The purpose is to keep the brands fresh in the eyes of the consumer and create the new brand image of being sleek, modern, high in engineering and features, not cheap but great value. The new launches coming in 2021 will just carry the momentum of this positioning forward. This is why the T-Roc was launched at such a compelling price - a fully loaded feature rich and well engineered compact SUV at just 19.99 lakhs. The Karoq will carry that value and quality story forward, so I do not expect it to be much higher priced than T-Roc.

They have to do this, otherwise they will get bogged down under the perception cloud created by current legacy models like the Polo, Vento and Rapid. Solid and well put together, but old and unexciting.

The real story will play out in 2021 and beyond. I expect VW group to make a grand entry with the Taigun and Kamiq, launching two excellent products at very good value price points that undercut the Creta and Seltos. If these models and sedans to be launched thereafter do 10K units per month, then we are talking real volumes of 100k plus and real profits in the range of $200M range annually, which will be material for the group.

Last edited by 84.monsoon : 18th April 2020 at 22:37.
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Old 18th April 2020, 23:31   #330
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Default Re: The Volkswagen T-Roc, now launched @ Rs 19.99 lakhs

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Originally Posted by 84.monsoon View Post
The objective for them is not to sell the full quota of 2500 units. Even if they did, assuming a profit of $2-3k per unit, they would make a profit of $5-7Million. This is a drop in the ocean for a $300Billion corporation. The purpose is to keep the brands fresh in the eyes of the consumer and create the new brand image of being sleek, modern, high in engineering and features, not cheap but great value. The new launches coming in 2021 will just carry the momentum of this positioning forward. This is why the T-Roc was launched at such a compelling price - a fully loaded feature rich and well engineered compact SUV at just 19.99 lakhs. The Karoq will carry that value and quality story forward, so I do not expect it to be much higher priced than T-Roc. They have to do this, otherwise they will get bogged down under the perception cloud created by current legacy models like the Polo, Vento and Rapid. Solid and well put together, but old and unexciting. The real story will play out in 2021 and beyond. I expect VW group to make a grand entry with the Taigun and Kamiq, launching two excellent products at very good value price points that undercut the Creta and Seltos. If these models and sedans to be launched thereafter do 10K units per month, then we are talking real volumes of 100k plus and real profits in the range of $200M range annually, which will be material for the group.
I agree with you that, even at Rs. 19.99 Ex, VW is still making profit, albeit may not be at their desired margin. There was a feeling that VW could sell the car at a loss, to position the product correctly, until they are able to locally assemble or manufacture it.The VW should not treat the TRoc and Karoq as stop gap arrangement and instead sell them with all seriousness. These two cars would be good next car for quite a number of current VW car owners. It will otherwise cast a doubt on the longevity of the brands in India, and could even impact Taigun / Kosmiq(?) sales. There wont be any India 3.0 !
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