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Old 10th July 2020, 21:30   #646
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Re: The Volkswagen T-Roc, now launched @ Rs 19.99 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by tristis2008 View Post
But the following two bothered me[/b]
1. I am not sure what this behavior is all about. Is it the DSG getting confused ? I was driving slowly through rough and pot holed road and my foot was off accelerator. The gearbox was in D2. Then it decided to go to D1 and then the RPM increased a lot ! And again it decided to goto D2. I managed to record it after being able to reproduce the behavior . Is it normal with DSG boxes ? It did cause some discomfort in the passengers. I don't have driving experience with them and I don't see this type of behavior with my Vento's TC, a lethargic fellow.
This is mostly cause you were at a slow speed and maybe there was a slight incline or acceleration needed.

The DSG can shift very fast so it is not hesitant to go down and back up instantly.

Also, maybe in D2 2 cylinders were deactivated and that came back on hence the rpm increased.

This is the 7 speed DSG with dry clutch and in general it's behaviour is to go to D2 very fast and even at slow speeds it rarely drops to 1st and even when it does it shifts back to D2 very fast.

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 12th July 2020 at 10:08. Reason: edited
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Old 11th July 2020, 01:02   #647
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Re: The Volkswagen T-Roc, now launched @ Rs 19.99 lakhs

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Originally Posted by tristis2008 View Post
But the following two bothered me
1. I am not sure what this behavior is all about. Is it the DSG getting confused ? I was driving slowly through rough and pot holed road and my foot was off accelerator. The gearbox was in D2. Then it decided to go to D1 and then the RPM increased a lot ! And again it decided to goto D2. I managed to record it after being able to reproduce the behavior . Is it normal with DSG boxes ? It did cause some discomfort in the passengers.
I have a 2019 Polo GT TSI 1.2 and I can understand exactly what you are talking about. I too noticed it a few times, especially on unscientific speed-breakers where you almost come to a standstill. I attributed it to my lack of experience in driving automatics and didn't think too much till you also mentioned. My guess is since the foot is completely off the pedal and very low speeds, the DSG is in a confused state but is then forced to blip the throttle to cross over the speed breaker. Or, we are subconsciously getting on the accelerator too fast and need to practice smooth throttle input.
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Old 12th July 2020, 00:07   #648
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Re: The Volkswagen T-Roc, now launched @ Rs 19.99 lakhs

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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
This is the 7 speed DSG with dry clutch and in general it's behaviour is to go to D2 very fast and even at slow speeds it rarely drops to 1st and even when it does it shifts back to D2 very fast.
May be its a good idea to be in manual mode under slow and bumpy driving conditions. Guess DSG wont be able to manage tracks as in video below ! May be I am here!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
I have a 2019 Polo GT TSI 1.2 and I can understand exactly what you are talking about. I too noticed it a few times, especially on unscientific speed-breakers where you almost come to a standstill. I attributed it to my lack of experience in driving automatics and didn't think too much till you also mentioned. My guess is since the foot is completely off the pedal and very low speeds, the DSG is in a confused state but is then forced to blip the throttle to cross over the speed breaker. Or, we are subconsciously getting on the accelerator too fast and need to practice smooth throttle input.
Given your experience, it looks like for a car with DSG, there is learning curve and also driving adaptability. Need to read through other owner experiences.
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Old 12th July 2020, 12:35   #649
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Re: The Volkswagen T-Roc, now launched @ Rs 19.99 lakhs

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Originally Posted by tristis2008 View Post
1. I am not sure what this behavior is all about. Is it the DSG getting confused ?
What you experienced looks completely normal from the video. The car felt an imminent stall, so shifted to 1 with revs given as well.

I’ve been using DSG WAG cars since 2012 ( Tiguan, superb and Polo) and even though every now and then the shifts get funny, it’s one of the best systems in the world. Never had any issues. The DSG and throttle response adapts to a user over time and that is a wonder in itself ! It is time that people stop worrying about its behaviour. Not sure about reliability though but in my 8-9 years, DSG has never given me any trouble.
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Old 12th July 2020, 13:11   #650
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Re: The Volkswagen T-Roc, now launched @ Rs 19.99 lakhs

I suspect that the last few T-ROCs that are still unsold, will be given at a good lac or two discount, come end of the year. Interesting H2 2020.
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Old 12th July 2020, 15:02   #651
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Re: The Volkswagen T-Roc, now launched @ Rs 19.99 lakhs

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Originally Posted by Harneet.S View Post
:
I'll update more as I go along in the next few days. .
Waiting for more inputs regarding positives and negatives so that BHPians like me who are waiting on the sidelines can make a decision. What mileage figures are you getting?
Wondering whether VW A.S.S. in terms of number of service centres as well as service experience is better than Skoda.
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Old 12th July 2020, 16:37   #652
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Re: The Volkswagen T-Roc, now launched @ Rs 19.99 lakhs

Disclaimer: First Post here !!

Booked T-Roc recently. After almost planning to buy Jeep Compass Petrol AT from PPS since last year, while waiting for the unlock to be lifted, I once debated with PPS Sales team about T-Roc vs Jeep. PPS was so confident that I won't like T-Roc compared to Jeep that they asked me to visit VW Apple showroom and inspect the car. To their surprise, I and my wife ended up liking the European stying of VW T-roc, instantly loving the design, style, tech stuff and the space vs jeep compass when we saw the display car 4 weeks back. PPS Jeep was professional and kind enough to pass on my lead to their PPS VW dealer. We booked T-Roc with them 3 weeks back.

Yesterday, PPS VW came home to give a test drive. Did about 10Km of test drive, and felt 'good' but we were left confused a little. On city speeds, we felt Jeep's ride quality on bad roads was way better than VW T-Roc, but engine response etc was way better than Jeep's. Compass interior space was very small, and felt smaller than VW T-roc as well. The next gen electronics in T-roc was a clear winner as well. Btw, I was surprised on hard plastic reviews, as to me it was not even a consideration, whether the dash was made with pure sponge leather or gold as long as it served our purpose. It was looking perfectly OK to us during the test drive. Horn was pretty European and you can't hear much of it with closed windows. Also overall, we felt the car was bit smallish with superior design looks, and comparable to most big hatchbacks like i20 etc, and in general comparable to Creta, Seltos as well. We also test driven MG Hector three months back, but the ride quality was very wobbly to digest, though great to sit in it when stationary :-). Seltos and Creta, we just sat in stationary vehicles and never test driven them.

Anyway, yday night looked at EURO NCAP videos of T-Roc, and came out impressed with the safety features. For sure I am may be paying about 3L more than a Seltos/Creta, but that's ok for the reliability and heritage of VW. I've driven cars in Europe, so had the fancy to buy one of them, though I am not into cars at all :-). My first and only car so far has been i10, since 12 years in India.

Question to other T-Roc owners: PPS VW said the front assist is disabled for India, though they say the front sensors are there for the car. I wish we can enable it somehow, can someone please confirm if it can be enabled ?

I really loved PPS Motors for both Jeep and VW, very professional and they demonstrated great work ethics. I never had a good experience with VW in other places in general (Mysore Road / Apple in Mahadevpura, Bangalore), hardly any service orientation.

I plan to stick with the purchase now and we are eagerly waiting for our Indium Grey T-Roc. Hopefully, will use this forum to write more about this car !

Best Regards,
Jokarr

Last edited by JOKARR : 12th July 2020 at 16:46. Reason: removing my name
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Old 12th July 2020, 17:25   #653
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Re: The Volkswagen T-Roc, now launched @ Rs 19.99 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by JOKARR View Post
Booked T-Roc recently.
Yesterday, PPS VW came home to give a test drive. Did about 10Km of test drive, and felt 'good' but we were left confused a little. On city speeds, we felt Jeep's ride quality on bad roads was way better than VW T-Roc, but engine response etc was way better than Jeep's.
Welcome to Team-BHP and congratulations on your booking. The ride is indeed firm on this car and was expected as there was no particular suspension tweaking for India. Further, I believe this gets accentuated due to the tyre pressure the showroom guys are maintaining. Suspecting the same I had checked the pressure before TD and it was over 40 psi, which is very high. Ride would definitely be better if tyre pressure is proper.

If the hardware supports, I believe it is possible to enable some features by user's themselves. We did similar things in Vento, as well back in 2011-12. Eventually company itself started enabling them for customers. We need to look into user manual. I was looking into auto high-low beam enabling and then I found it possible. Of course one needs to check on the car itself.

Check for Front assist , if its possible to enable.
https://userguide.volkswagen.de/

Look into Driver Assist Systems -> Area monitoring system. You will need VIN of the car, which you may obtain from SA at PPS motors.

Last edited by ampere : 12th July 2020 at 21:21. Reason: trimmed quoted post
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Old 12th July 2020, 20:58   #654
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Re: The Volkswagen T-Roc, now launched @ Rs 19.99 lakhs

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Originally Posted by tristis2008 View Post
May be its a good idea to be in manual mode under slow and bumpy driving conditions. Guess DSG wont be able to manage tracks as in video below ! May be I am here!
Incredible video, loved it. I don't think 2WD that is sold in India is comparable right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tristis2008 View Post
Welcome to Team-BHP and congratulations on your booking. The ride is indeed firm on this car and was expected as there was no particular suspension tweaking for India. Further, I believe this gets accentuated due to the tyre pressure the showroom guys are maintaining. Suspecting the same I had checked the pressure before TD and it was over 40 psi, which is very high. Ride would definitely be better if tyre pressure is proper.
Thank you, great advise. Will keep it in mind. Tyre pressure was 36 psi in our TD car.

Couple of more things, what I noticed in TeamBHP is, everyone endorses their 'buy', to cope up with 'post purchase dissonance'. There is no right or wrong with most cars these days, it is upto the individual likings and disliking. Tech differentiation is saturating looks like, so UX is becoming a big part of the purchase.

Another thing is, many seems to be wondering about the high price, while in fact this car in UK Configuration costs upwards of 25K BP, but 'there is no free lunch', you get what you pay. In an ideal world, there is no way that one can produce at lower cost with the same quality, without hitting on their profitability, with all other things being equal like manufacturing scale etc. In T-Roc's case, Govt is taking 6L out of the 20L car, so I am not sure if VW is making any margin at all in this car or they are just using this car as a pilot for their India 2.0 strategy.

Last edited by ampere : 12th July 2020 at 21:22. Reason: Removed video link from quoted post
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Old 12th July 2020, 21:35   #655
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Re: The Volkswagen T-Roc, now launched @ Rs 19.99 lakhs

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Originally Posted by JOKARR View Post
In T-Roc's case, Govt is taking 6L out of the 20L car, so I am not sure if VW is making any margin at all in this car or they are just using this car as a pilot for their India 2.0 strategy.
Whatever the reason I sure hope that VW is committed to maintain and provide spares for these CBUs at a reasonable cost and within an acceptable timeframe as otherwise the car ownership experience goes sour down the line.
Whether the common MQB platform across VAG vehicles helps in mitigating these issues to a certain extent for parts shared between various cars remains to be seen.
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Old 12th July 2020, 22:39   #656
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Re: The Volkswagen T-Roc, now launched @ Rs 19.99 lakhs

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Originally Posted by moncar View Post
Whatever the reason I sure hope that VW is committed to maintain and provide spares for these CBUs at a reasonable cost and within an acceptable timeframe as otherwise the car ownership experience goes sour down the line.
Whether the common MQB platform across VAG vehicles helps in mitigating these issues to a certain extent for parts shared between various cars remains to be seen.
That's a good point, but I doubt if they will provide low cost spares with quick lead times. Though, VW will ensure to fix problems at the end of the day and they will not behave like 'fly by night' operators for sure, thanks to social media pressure that they may face, that can affect not one model but their other brands worth several hundred billion dollars. In this new digital world, both success and for sure, failures get amplified several times over, that no big company can afford to ignore, more so with listed companies like VW. For this very reason, to manage reputational risk, they spend more on reliability and quality, leading to overall price of the product.
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Old 12th July 2020, 22:40   #657
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Re: The Volkswagen T-Roc, now launched @ Rs 19.99 lakhs

Since this is an Euro import a must for any owner of the T-Roc should be OBD11 https://obdeleven.com/en/ I use it for my Golf GTI and its an absolute treasure, Tons of reviews online. check it out.
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Old 12th July 2020, 23:04   #658
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Re: The Volkswagen T-Roc, now launched @ Rs 19.99 lakhs

Finally got to see the T-Roc in person. Didn't spend too much time with it and couldn't drive. Just sharing first few impressions.
- It looks even smaller in person than I had thought. Very much similar to a Mercedes GLA
- Yes there are hard scratchy plastics everywhere but honestly the rest of the car is so beautifully made that they don't seem too obtrusive or problematic. I gave the door handles, front and rear few real hard yanks and I can assure you, there was no creaking.
- The virtual cockpit and the ICE are really nice and draw your attention probably distracting you from the cost saving materials used in the interior.
- The rear is probably best for 4 but the seats themselves are very comfortable. Knee room in the back wasn't great but not as bad as I had expected as well. Front seat position adjusted for a 5'9 driver in front I could comfortably sit in the rear (I am around 5'11). May be an issue with taller drivers.
- Boot appears small but is pretty wide. We could fit 1 full size golf set in it.
- Image for reverse camera is really crisp and gives a sort of projected 360 degree view of the car showing both front and rear sensors.
- Comes with Bridgestone Turanza 215/55/17 tyres as standard.

Will share more later.
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Old 12th July 2020, 23:32   #659
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Re: The Volkswagen T-Roc, now launched @ Rs 19.99 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by moncar View Post
Waiting for more inputs regarding positives and negatives so that BHPians like me who are waiting on the sidelines can make a decision. What mileage figures are you getting?
Wondering whether VW A.S.S. in terms of number of service centres as well as service experience is better than Skoda.

Hello, I'm so sorry I haven't been able to write in over here all week. Its been 6 days and 300 km since I've had the car and its a nice mixed bag. The car is averaging as much as you want it to. On test runs above 120kph (repeatedly), while keeping RPM below 3500, just to be very sure there's no annoying beeps and sounds (still have to pinch myself - I loathe cars that beep over a certain speed), I would get a consistent 7kmpl to 8 kmpl. But if driving sedately, like today, I got upwards of 16 in city limits (Sunday detox with wife from the corona news). Pic attached.

Looks:
The most beautiful looking crossover hatchback-ish compact SUV(W?). I can't get enough of it. People can't get enough of it. People give me a almost everyday I take it out. I have had smiles from guys(only lol) in BMW's, Mercs, and on bikes! It will make people notice. It has the silhouette of a old-gen Q3 with strong boxy lines, it was a tug of heart-strings for me, this car. Just like my polo was almost 10 years ago, it just looks that good.

Interior:
Yes the grab handles creak. There, I said it. But barely on closing the door, but a lot when trying to twist the grab handle. The interior quality according to me is not an issues. I wish it had auto seats (even those without memory will do) - Of all the things I hate, I hate the backrest recline angle cog. Its a rotary wheel on the door side behind the height-adjust lever. I just hate the feeling, I have not so fond memories of my Dad's '96 M800 having the same thing and me hating it then as well. The seats, though, are super comfy for long rides (I have driven once over 2 hours mostly in city traffic the day after I bought it - The lumbar support for people have disc issues - is top notch). The steering is dead straight in front of the driver, not offset even a little bit - OCD not activated. The screen(digital driver display) is a hair too small but is quite high res, even though you can't change the colour of dials or display sat-nav(It doesn't have satnav neither can you bring nav screen routing from Carplay/A Auto into the centre).

Drive:
Extremely European. The Autocar guy Gavin said it on the YouTube review of this car. If you want to know how a euro suspension setup is please TD this car. Almost all mid-sized to large euro cars manufactured there feel like this - not the watered down version you get in India. All the BMW's, VW's, Merc's and fancy cars you get in the >30L bracket barring CBU's are not how euro cars feel.

Ride is very firm but not uncomfortable. Every broken part of the road will be 'felt' through to your bum. But you won't be violently thrown about the cabin unless you go through a patch of really bad road or fly into a speedbump. No 'rough road' package here. It doesn't scrape speedbumps and I'm usually dead slow over them but I've never had to take the car diagonally over one, if you know what I mean.
The brakes are marvellous but they have a strong bite to them. The steering is lifeless at slow speeds but weighs up a little post 90 kph.
The standard supply systems are pretty nice. The lane assist works if you have nicely marked lanes and keeps you in lane for a good 400 meters before it asks you to hold the steering wheel again. I haven’t tested the front assist, nor do I want to; I hope it will work. It is checked and activates every-time you start the car. There’s a 30 second period when you start the car in which it doesn’t work and displays an hourglass icon in the display post then it works till you switch off the engine.
The manoeuvre and park brake I haven’t tested, I want to run the car at slow speeds into a large sheet of thermocol to see if it actually stops the car without intervention.
There’s no wireless charging but I want to do a ‘jugaad’ in the next few days for it to support that.


Bits of info after living with it for a week:

1. My car's wipers are faulty. I guess these have old rubber on them so they brrrr on the windscreen and its a good thing I noticed these because it rained almost every day since I got the car. They don't have any in stock and with usual VW high headedness, I had to make a video for them to believe me. Also, my battery voltage was below 12v the first few days because it was standing for a while before it was delivered to me(read at least 6 months)
2. No accessories are available and are only on order with a lead time of 'between' 1 & 3 weeks. Still no mats in the car.
3. I looked and looked and made them plug the car into VCDS twice but couldn't figure out how to activate the chirp/honk on locking doors. All explanations all over the web don't work. If somebody gets these working in India, please reach out.
4. The SOS button, Vehicle assist button and the i information button, all in the roof liner next to the sunroof controls, doesn't work. Also, VW service confirms it will NOT work, so redundant buttons. The SOS button does try to make an emergency call but fails.
5. It has Auto wipers but it doesn't say that anywhere. Just put it into INT speed and it should work itself.
6. Auto headlights are crazy sensitive and I like that fact. They'll switch on and off on a partly shady road and some people will flip you off for constantly trying to 'dipper' them.
7. The compressor pump is extremely light weight but has very good build quality and is supplied as part of the mobility kit with the car.
8. The car does not have auto main beam and no option to activate in the settings menu either. I don't know if it has the requisite hardware to code it in either. I have it on two of my cars and it is very useful when on a dimly lit highway.
9. There is a climatronic Air filter to theoretically filter pollen and some pollutants that can be activated from Aircon settings.
10. Lots of mechanical noises! There is a loud noise when putting the car in reverse when the camera juts out and another when you pull away and it closes back in. The electric park brake makes a loud motorised sound when engaging (You'll only hear it outside the car). The steering is locked with a locking pin with a motorised sound which comes on every time you start the engine(disengage) / leave the car(engaged)
11. The sunroof curtain is thin! On a sunny day it'll light up.
12. You can mount a baby seat without removing the isofix plastic cups. This way you won't lose them.
13. The spare is a 18 incher.
14. The rear seats fold quite flat. I like that fact.
15. Even if you're a wee bit eager, D1 & D2 will rev to at least 2500 RPM. D3 onwards will upshift below 2k.
16. Kangarooing is there on D1 & D2.
17. The dipped and main beams are more than adequate and the fogs are yellow and i like that they didn't go completely white as you lose the usefulness of fogs.
18. DRL's glow at full brightness on activating parking lights(not dependent on ambient light conditions) if Auto headlamps come on too early for you. I'm trying to get VW to activate Scandinavian DRL option where the rear LED tail lamps would also glow during daytime (looks amazing!)
19. The manual is very very informative. I read it over the weekend, and it was an interesting read. I learned you could dip the far side OVRM to a certain position depending on which key you use to start the car.
20. Voice commands are an added premium and you have to purchase the option. The button on the Head unit and steering give reminders that you need to activate by calling your dealer (basically telling you you're a cheapskate).
21. Auto start-stop tries to conserve fuel when, for example, stopping at a red light. It engages a little before you come to a complete stand-still which is something I haven't seen in a lot of cars. If it doesn't engage, it has a very informative display which will tell you why it hasn't come on. For eg. Humidity is too high or Passenger compartment temperature not comfortable.
22. The VIN decoders available tell me its a MY 2020 car. This is funny because the VW people made me sign a paper which said I'm okay with purchasing this MY 2019 car in 2020.


Phew!
I guess I'll have a full review of ownership in a few weeks' time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JOKARR View Post
Disclaimer: First Post here !!


Question to other T-Roc owners: PPS VW said the front assist is disabled for India, though they say the front sensors are there for the car. I wish we can enable it somehow, can someone please confirm if it can be enabled ?


Best Regards,
Jokarr
Front assist is enabled, I just haven't had the Cojones to test it yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JOKARR View Post

Couple of more things, what I noticed in TeamBHP is, everyone endorses their 'buy', to cope up with 'post purchase dissonance'.
I think I came off sounding like that. Sorry!
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Old 13th July 2020, 00:15   #660
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Re: The Volkswagen T-Roc, now launched @ Rs 19.99 lakhs

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16. Kangarooing is there on D1 & D2.
Harneet, you have explored your car a lot already! That's really impressive.

Although you have added the above point , the effect does not seem to have bothered you much. If it were otherwise, there would have been big paragraph about the same or may be you are planning to update in detail about the same later. This is one of the major factors for me for considering buying this car or even any car with this engine that being Karoq here. Can you please, may be make a video record and also explain what you actually experienced ?

As far as the year of manufacturing is considered, the dealer could be correct. While the model is 2020, the year could still be 2019. So far I have not been able to find the month/year of manufacture. The Zs in the VIN could not be deciphered. It may be noted, based on the TRoc forum UK, the kangaroo effect was quite prevalent, only to subside in 2020. I am not trying to disappoint here, but we must know how to deal with it.

Regarding , auto high low beam function, steps are indicated in the user manual. I have also shared a .de link in one of my posts earlier.

BTW, what is auto main beam function ?

It is good to know, most of your experiences with this car have been great.
I hope they replace the wipers soon.

Harneet, It's better you start an ownership review thread.

Last edited by tristis2008 : 13th July 2020 at 00:33. Reason: added query
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