[Capricorn]

Aren't they late in bringing 1.5 Petrol late to the party because they already had the engine in BS4. Or they like to present it with a bang?

[arif_ford]

Originally Posted by Capricorn

Aren't they late in bringing 1.5 Petrol late to the party because they already had the engine in BS4. Or they like to present it with a bang?

They wouldn't have got the tax benefit with the 1.5L petrol and may have ended too close or more expensive to sell than the 1.3L diesel they had. Petrol engine has to be below 1.2L for sub-4m. Now Maruti probably doesn't have a choice.

[adneeraj]

Getting a 1.5 petrol in a sub-4 meter vehicle means they won't be able to offer competitive pricing that was possible with the low taxation of under 4 meter cars.
I would have loved to see the 1.0 turbo petrol unit they were offering on the Baleno earlier. And maybe mated to a slick autobox. Would have made more sense IMO.

The interiors and creature comforts on offer are from a previous generation. I see a missed opportunity there. Digital instrument cluster would have looked fab. This is nowhere close in comparison with the Hyundai Venue.

[RitanRex]

This may have been discussed before but I still don't get it. Maruti has had probably the best NA petrol engine in the country for years now. What stops then from developing a turbocharged version of the K12 and using it in the Brezza?

[romeomidhun]

Maruti may be waiting for the response for the 1.5L Petrol model, and if it fails, they may introduce the 1.2L NA version at 1L cheaper than 1.5L petrol. This will be advertised as a "major price cut" and will attract many top end hatch customers.

Originally Posted by NFS2024

Highly unlikely to happen. The response to the 1.5 engine is already there in the Ciaz, Ertiga and XL6. They will play the price game here against the competition to appear VFM and offset any negatives the engine might have.

By response, I mean the number of bookings compared to the 1.3L Diesel. Also, they cannot play the price game with 1.5L Petrol because the tax bracket is higher (43% compared to 28%). That itself is a price difference of 70-80K.

[NFS2024]

Originally Posted by romeomidhun

They may be waiting for the response for the 1.5L, and if it fails, they may introduce the 1.2L NA version at 1L cheaper than 1.5L petrol. This will be advertised as a "major price cut" and will attract many top end hatch customers.

Highly unlikely to happen. The response to the 1.5 engine is already there in the Ciaz, Ertiga and XL6. They will play the price game here against the competition to appear VFM and offset any negatives the engine might have.

[Capricorn]

Originally Posted by arif_ford

They wouldn't have got the tax benefit with the 1.5L petrol and may have ended too close or more expensive to sell than the 1.3L diesel they had. Petrol engine has to be below 1.2L for sub-4m. Now Maruti probably doesn't have a choice.

Originally Posted by adneeraj

Getting a 1.5 petrol in a sub-4 meter vehicle means they won't be able to offer competitive pricing that was possible with the low taxation of under 4 meter cars.

Ford is doing just fine with Ecosport 1.5 Petrol why couldn't MSIL with Brezza? Either Ecosport is priced well even when in higher tax rate or MSIL products are not economical anymore. Now they have axed 1.3 MJD so that people will not have comparison how the price was kept for same model outside and inside the small car tax slab.

Originally Posted by RitanRex

This may have been discussed before but I still don't get it. Maruti has had probably the best NA petrol engine in the country for years now. What stops then from developing a turbocharged version of the K12 and using it in the Brezza?

They should have locally manufactured 1.0 Turbo Petrol from Baleno which was a perfect match with Brezza and tax breaks too. It could easily have been added to Ciaz as another variant for those who know smaller engine is not necessarily low on power and good competition to turbo petrols with Ecosport, Nexon and XUV3OO.

Isn't MSIL is too greedy and milking Indians without much investment? They are definitely late to the party.

[Dieselritzer]

In sales there's a term, "jo dikhta hai woh bikta hai". For Maruti, the term is, "jo bikhta hai wahi hum dikhaate rahenge". Please note that the majority of public have very less info on the details of engine, gearbox, etc. All they ask for is features, mileage, and these days safety thanks to Tata and Mahindra increasing public awareness. ABS and 2 Airbags is way more than enough for majority of the folks. They won't double click to see if NCAP happened or not.

For Brezza, against Ford they have a dialogue that sir they are exiting India very soon. Public will be scared to touch their cars fearing pathetic resale value.

Again Nexon, sir it's a Tata. Plus it's AMT. Jhatke dega. This is smooth.

Xuv300 is way more expensive.

Wrv comes close but they'll say sir Honda ka maintenance is expensive and majority of mango people will believe it.

Maruti must have already given all these dialogues to their sales team who will convince customers to plonk money in their product. They will not pump in money to improve a car that's a sales topper in its category. Why change something when people are lining up to buy their cars? Now with a smooth TC and the peace of mind of Maruti (especially more important as people will think that TC is a more complicated technology and it's better to stick to Maruti coz they will fix it if something goes wrong with it and it won't cost us a bomb), people will be more than happy to buy one of their cars.

[advenk999]

I've always wanted to see the Brezza in its petrol avatar right from the time it was brought into the Indian market.
That said, driving the 1.5L Ciaz was not exactly what you would find impressive. The power and torque figures in comparison to the Verna, City or the Dragon Ecosport are a downer. You'd always prefer to drive this engine with a lighter foot.
And God, that 4-Speed auto is a real dimwitted gearbox with no manual mode!
The 1.2K series of the smaller hatches are better responsive and fun in comparison.
Wish Maruti had brought in a more powerful/fun to drive engine or maybe a 1.2 L turbo?

With the S Cross coming in with the same engine, I wonder the power to weight ratio as it is a heavier car compared to the rest in the 1.5 stable.

[charanreddy]

I will say this again. The Brezza’s interior quality and design are at least 10 years old compared to the competition. This plus the bad AMT diesel combination drove me to the Nexon. As we mature as a market , if Maruti doesn’t evolve they will go down the path of HM, Fiat etc. may take a few more years but they will go down.

I am surprised at the lack of Innovation in the last 5 yrs or so. They launched segment 1st products like Ertiga, Dzire, Swift and now all they seem to do is derived products like the XL6 and facelifts. Not cool Maruti.

[manjunathkl]

Vitara Brezza is a top seller in the Sub-4 meter mini SUV segment. Yet, its company failed to upgrade it meaningfully after 5 years of its debut.

My impressions:
> I was expecting all the body panels would change if nothing changes in the platform. I was wrong there. Just head-lamp, tail-lamp and grill - basically changed plastic parts only.
> The engine change is also forced by the regulation, not Maruti's desire to innovate.
> Maruti is dud in Diesel engines - even after a strategic partnership with Toyota.
> Not just they have failed to bring global models to refresh their line-up, they have also failed to refresh their existing line-up.
> No response to Tata, Mahindra's cars scoring 5*s in NCAP. Not even an announcement that their future cars will be 5* rated.
> They boldly announced they are going to embrace hybrid tech as opposed to electric. They are just fooling people by slapping a "smart-hybrid" sticker (which is essentially a start-stop system and a micro battery recharger). I call it fake-hybrid.

If people still continue to award the biggest market share to this automaker, it shows how immature we are as a market.

[smileline]

I was wondering if the new headlamps and tail lamps can be fitted in the pre-facelifted Brezza. And if the warranty will get affected if done so.

[ank.nsit]

Originally Posted by manjunathkl

Vitara Brezza is a top seller in the Sub-4 meter mini SUV segment.

...

If people still continue to award the biggest market share to this automaker, it shows how immature we are as a market.

I am considering brezza petrol and I will tell you my reasons for it -

I own a Compass for highway drives and I am looking for a city car with following requirements -

1. Daily running of ~20kms
2. Need to have a good headroom for easy operation of child seat in the car.
3. Easy ingress/egress for my parents.
4. Smaller dimensions.
5. Lesser cost.
6. Good safety star rating.

Hence zeroed in for the compact SUV segment.

Even though my running warrants a petrol engine but I am open to both petrol and diesel as long as it's in city driveability is good.

I personally don't like 3 cylinder engines with or without turbo.

Hyundai makes you bleed money with its servicing and spare costs, hence Venue is ruled out.

Tata Nexon diesel is a strong contender but I just cannot accept small niggles like 'door lock not working' etc with my car.

So, It has to be either a Ford EcoSport diesel or Brezza petrol. Both are 4 star safety rated.

The points tilting in favour of brezza petrol are -
1. Silent engine
2. Lower initial cost.
3. Higher resale value (have seen it first hand)
4. Super reliability
5. Decent feature list.
6. More space.

For EcoSport diesel -
1. Better engine
2. Good looks.
3. Better interiors.
4. Super driving dynamics.

I am yet to finalize between the two, but if I go for Brezza would you say it to be an immature decision?
I would say it to be a well thought of decision. Brezza is definitely missing a few check boxes but then it ticks on some crucial check boxes.

PS: Had the Brezza not received a 4* safety rating, I would not have even thought about it.

[manjunathkl]

Originally Posted by ank.nsit

...


Even though my running warrants a petrol engine but I am open to both petrol and diesel as long as it's in city driveability is good.

I personally don't like 3 cylinder engines with or without turbo.

You said you are open to Diesel. Nexon, TUV300 have 4 cylinder diesel engines. So, your elimination is not fair.

Originally Posted by ank.nsit

Hyundai makes you bleed money with its servicing and spare costs, hence Venue is ruled out.

This is only a matter of perception. I have owned 1 Hyundai, 1 Fiat, 1 Chevy and 1 Maruti cars in the past. Currently owning a Creta 2016. Hyundai's servicing is not any more expensive than Maruti or any mass-market brand (forget VW-Skoda).

Originally Posted by ank.nsit

Tata Nexon diesel is a strong contender but I just cannot accept small niggles like 'door lock not working' etc with my car.

A few niggles will happen on a small number of cars of every brand. It is not like every Maruti sold will be fully niggle-free. If you hear the niggles my friend faced in his brand new Skoda Superb, you will be astonished. My other friend's Toyota liva too had issues. My Fiat had a few niggles over 9 years, but they were too few and far between (contrary to popular belief). If, unfortunately, one-off part malfunctions, one can get it replaced under warranty.

Originally Posted by ank.nsit

So, It has to be either a Ford EcoSport diesel or Brezza petrol. Both are 4 star safety rated.

IMO, an extra star is still worth it, compared to small inconveniences.

Originally Posted by ank.nsit

The points tilting in favour of brezza petrol are -
1. Silent engine
2. Lower initial cost.
3. Higher resale value (have seen it first hand)
4. Super reliability
5. Decent feature list.
6. More space.

No doubt Brezza is a capable product, but except for point 3, all other points are matched or excelled by at least one competitor.

Originally Posted by ank.nsit

For EcoSport diesel -
1. Better engine
2. Good looks.
3. Better interiors.
4. Super driving dynamics.

Eco-sport is a better-engineered car with significantly better build quality compared to Brezza. It shows in its dynamics. Even its sound insulation is superb compared to Brezza. But I would hold-off Ford till its future in India becomes clear. We have to see how in real life their merger with Mahindra plays out.

Originally Posted by ank.nsit

I am yet to finalize between the two, but if I go for Brezza would you say it to be an immature decision?

Hey, don't get me wrong. It is your money, it is your decision. I'm no one to judge. But I'm sharing my thought. It is up to you to accept or reject. If Maruti, drives its biggest business from India, they ought to give us the best car possible at its price. But in reality, they lag in almost every department when you compare features, build-quality, latest tech, design, safety.
Also, are you happy with the fact that they will sell the same old 2016 Brezza to you in 2020 with new head-lamps, tail-lamps, front grill and a new engine mandated by BS6? Why is Maruti so poor to upgrade a superbly successful car in a meaningful way?

Originally Posted by ank.nsit

PS: Had the Brezza not received a 4* safety rating, I would not have even thought about it.

Good to hear from buyers who are concerned about safety. Most average Joes won't even understand the importance of safety ratings. Having said that, the gold standard in safety is 5 stars today. 4 stars cars are so 2010ish.

[ank.nsit]

Originally Posted by manjunathkl

You said you are open to Diesel. Nexon, TUV300 have 4 cylinder diesel engines. So, your elimination is not fair.

I did mention the reason of eliminating Nexon.
TUV300 is nowhere in the race in terms of smoothness and refinement.
XUV300 is a good option, but Mahindra needs to work on its steering.

This is only a matter of perception. I have owned 1 Hyundai, 1 Fiat, 1 Chevy and 1 Maruti cars in the past. Currently owning a Creta 2016. Hyundai's servicing is not any more expensive than Maruti or any mass-market brand (forget VW-Skoda).

I would not say it to be just a perception. My closest friends have owned 2 i10s, 1 Grand i10 and 1 i20. And I have seen their servicing costs and repairs.
I would say the initial 60-70K KMs are smooth with normal costs, but you have to be really lucky beyond those KMs to keep the ownership costs low. My all 4 friends have cried their heart out on purchasing a Hyundai.

A few niggles will happen on a small number of cars of every brand. It is not like every Maruti sold will be fully niggle-free. If you hear the niggles my friend faced in his brand new Skoda Superb, you will be astonished. My other friend's Toyota liva too had issues. My Fiat had a few niggles over 9 years, but they were too few and far between (contrary to popular belief). If, unfortunately, one-off part malfunctions, one can get it replaced under warranty.

I agree, it's a machine and it can fail. But at the end it's all about probability. The probability of having niggles in a tried and tested Brezza would be around 1 percent, while that in a TATA would be around 10 percent maybe. It's like 10 times extra chances of issues.

IMO, an extra star is still worth it, compared to small inconveniences.

I agree. That's the reason I went out of my budget and purchased a super safe Compass with its own sets of niggles. But I am ok with a 4* product for a city.

No doubt Brezza is a capable product, but except for point 3, all other points are matched or excelled by at least one competitor.

If you separate out the individual points then maybe yes, but it's the overall package that makes it attractive.

Eco-sport is a better-engineered car with significantly better build quality compared to Brezza. It shows in its dynamics. Even its sound insulation is superb compared to Brezza. But I would hold-off Ford till its future in India becomes clear. We have to see how in real life their merger with Mahindra plays out.

You made the decision for me.

Hey, don't get me wrong. It is your money, it is your decision. I'm no one to judge. But I'm sharing my thought. It is up to you to accept or reject. If Maruti, drives its biggest business from India, they ought to give us the best car possible at its price.

No manufacturer can do it. To keep prices low, you ought to make compromises. That's the reason most manufacturers are moving to 3 cylinders now.

But in reality, they lag in almost every department when you compare features, build-quality, latest tech, design, safety.

It's just the way you look at it.

Features List - It has all the necessary features -

• Android Auto
• Power Folding Mirrors
• Reverse Camera
• Automatic Climate Control
• Auto Dimming IRVM

I find TPMS to be the only essential feature missing in Brezza.

The companies just for the sake of standing out and competing are offering 'unnecessary' features IMHO.

Build-Quality - One area Maruti definitely definitely needs to work on ALL ITS CARS.
But Brezza being a 4* rated product inspires enough confidence.

Latest Tech - The 'connected car' thing is the one that I think is missing. And the 4 speed AT is bad (but not relevant for me). But any other tech that you feel is missing from Brezza?
Regarding engine tech - I personally find a 4 cyl NA engine to be way better than a 3 cyl Turbo engine.

Design - It's a personal choice, so not commenting on this.

Safety - Brezza specifically is a 4* product. But Maruti needs to work on the safety of all of it's other cars.

Also, are you happy with the fact that they will sell the same old 2016 Brezza to you in 2020 with new head-lamps, tail-lamps, front grill and a new engine mandated by BS6?

If you ask 'happy' then definitely NO, I was expecting better. But I am ok with it.

Why is Maruti so poor to upgrade a superbly successful car in a meaningful way?

This is Maruti's life cycle for any product. After 3-4 years, they launch just a facelift. And after 6-7 years a completely new redesigned product is launched.

Good to hear from buyers who are concerned about safety. Most average Joes won't even understand the importance of safety ratings. Having said that, the gold standard in safety is 5 stars today. 4 stars cars are so 2010ish.

This is going to be a gradual shift. Kudos to TATA for taking a lead here.