[JithinR]

Originally Posted by ank.nsit

So, It has to be either a Ford EcoSport diesel or Brezza petrol. Both are 4 star safety rated.

It was the ENCAP that tested the Ecosport in 2013 for the European market. In 2018, the new Ecosport again got the 4 star rating but in the US market with the NHTSA.

It did get a 5 star rating but in LATIN NCAP. I am not sure if any of these results are relevant to the Indian market though.

https://www.team-bhp.com/news/ford-e...p-5-latin-ncap

[manjunathkl]

You have made your decision, my friend. Brezza it is. Many congrats. Share the pics once you finish your purchase. But for the benefit of others, I just added a few replies.

Originally Posted by ank.nsit

I would not say it to be just a perception. My closest friends have owned 2 i10s, 1 Grand i10 and 1 i20. And I have seen their servicing costs and repairs.
I would say the initial 60-70K KMs are smooth with normal costs, but you have to be really lucky beyond those KMs to keep the ownership costs low. My all 4 friends have cried their heart out on purchasing a Hyundai.

I completed 1.2 lakhs on my first Hyundai and my second Hyundai is around 20K. My BiL's i20 ran 75K without any major issues. My friend's i10 is running 1L Kms now. Compared to all my and my friends'/relatives' non-Hyundai cars, I have spent the same amount of money on a Hyundai. It depends on individual cases based on their usage and maintenance I guess.

Originally Posted by ank.nsit

The probability of having niggles in a tried and tested Brezza would be around 1 percent, while that in a TATA would be around 10 percent maybe. It's like 10 times extra chances of issues.

This is also a perception. Tata after Tiago/Tigor/Nexon/Hexa/Harrier is a different brand from the Indica age Tata. I feel today they are at the same level as Maruti when it comes to niggle-freeness. Nexon is very much as tried and tested as Brezza is IMO.

Originally Posted by ank.nsit

But I am ok with a 4* product for a city.

All it takes is your Compass to be out of fuel or out for service for you take your Brezza to the highway even if it is very rare. So, I would anyway recommend 5* car even if it is City.

Originally Posted by ank.nsit

No manufacturer can do it. To keep prices low, you ought to make compromises. That's the reason most manufacturers are moving to 3 cylinders now.

Not really. There are manufacturers today going extra-length investing significantly more on R&D, to create better designed, better-engineered cars, knowing very well they still will not beat Maruti in sales.

Today's 3 cyl are good and don't feel unrefined as earlier. When I drove Nexon, I didn't feel it is 3 cyl at all. Power was adequate too. Similarly, electric power steering was bashed for lack of feel - today all cars come with it, with an acceptable level of feel and its advantages outweigh the joy of Hydraulic steering. So, it is only about time, till everyone accepts a 3 cyl as a standard.

Originally Posted by ank.nsit

Build-Quality - One area Maruti definitely definitely needs to work on ALL ITS CARS.
But Brezza being a 4* rated product inspires enough confidence.

A lot more goes into build quality. The thickness of the sheet metal, quality of fabrication, quality of plastics, fit and finish, etc. Maruti is infamous for going overboard on weight reduction. Next, they will ask the riders to go to the gym to reduce their weight.

One of the Bhpians, ripped a chassis member while his S-cross was being towed using the designated tow-ring.

Originally Posted by ank.nsit

... But any other tech that you feel is missing from Brezza?

When Creta was facelifted after 4 years, along with cosmetic changes, it got sun-roof, electric driver seat adjust, adjustable front arm-rest and a few more nifty features that are actually usable.
When Brezza was face-lifted after 4 years, it got new head-lamps, tail lamps, and front grill.

All, I'm saying is Maruti being stingy than others when it comes to adding value in their refreshed models.

Originally Posted by ank.nsit

This is Maruti's life cycle for any product. After 3-4 years, they launch just a facelift. And after 6-7 years a completely new redesigned product is launched.

We'll it is OK for any other manufacturer who is having low market share to do this. But Maruti holding 50%+ market-share consistently and India being its largest market, bigger than its home market Japan - one will expect them to treat Indian consumers as special. Especially, when they are making tons of volume-based profits compared to competitors, there is simply no reason for them to be average in everything.

Disclaimer: Brezza is a great car, it sells like that not without valid reasons. I'm not bashing anyone's choice of picking Maruti over any other brand car. Individually, everyone is capable of picking the right car for their needs. I'm trying to do an objective comparison at a macro level on who gives more value and who works hard to produce a "better car". It should be taken in the right context.

[ank.nsit]

Originally Posted by manjunathkl

You have made your decision, my friend. Brezza it is. Many congrats. Share the pics once you finish your purchase.

Honestly I have not and I cannot without actually driving it. I am equally inclined to EcoSport diesel as of now.

But for the benefit of others, I just added a few replies.

This is what we are doing. Just having a healthy discussion for the benefit of others.

I completed 1.2 lakhs on my first Hyundai and my second Hyundai is around 20K. My BiL's i20 ran 75K without any major issues. My friend's i10 is running 1L Kms now. Compared to all my and my friends'/relatives' non-Hyundai cars, I have spent the same amount of money on a Hyundai. It depends on individual cases based on their usage and maintenance I guess.

We can agree to disagree here. But specific points that my friends have faced -

1. Early clutch wear in all of the cars.
2. i20 brake pads costing around 8K.
3. AC issues (gas leak/cooling coil going kaput) in i10 and Grand i10.

This is also a perception. Tata after Tiago/Tigor/Nexon/Hexa/Harrier is a different brand from the Indica age Tata. I feel today they are at the same level as Maruti when it comes to niggle-freeness. Nexon is very much as tried and tested as Brezza is IMO.

Definitely not a perception. Quoting our official TBhp review of Harrier -

• Feels like a work-in-process beta version. Several rough areas are yet to be sorted out

But Nexon being a facelift could be given a benefit of doubt as the company would have resolved the major niggles reported over the years.

All it takes is your Compass to be out of fuel or out for service for you take your Brezza to the highway even if it is very rare. So, I would anyway recommend 5* car even if it is City.

Agreed. In an ideal world all our cars should be 5* which I think would gradually happen. But if I restrict my choice to only 5* - I have just one option of Tata Nexon.

Today's 3 cyl are good and don't feel unrefined as earlier. When I drove Nexon, I didn't feel it is 3 cyl at all. Power was adequate too. Similarly, electric power steering was bashed for lack of feel - today all cars come with it, with an acceptable level of feel and its advantages outweigh the joy of Hydraulic steering. So, it is only about time, till everyone accepts a 3 cyl as a standard.

Yea, maybe it will be a gradual shift. But for now Maruti is offering a 4 cylinder engine.

A lot more goes into build quality. The thickness of the sheet metal, quality of fabrication, quality of plastics, fit and finish, etc. Maruti is infamous for going overboard on weight reduction. Next, they will ask the riders to go to the gym to reduce their weight.

One of the Bhpians, ripped a chassis member while his S-cross was being towed using the designated tow-ring.

Absolutely agreed. And I think Maruti should definitely work on it.
I remember driving a Zoomcar Baleno and it felt so discomforting to drive that car even @ 100kmph.

When Creta was facelifted after 4 years, along with cosmetic changes, it got sun-roof, electric driver seat adjust, adjustable front arm-rest and a few more nifty features that are actually usable.
When Brezza was face-lifted after 4 years, it got new head-lamps, tail lamps, and front grill.

Does this mean Hyundai is better than Maruti? We all know that the first gen i20 had a 5* rating. But the subsequent models were not. They gradually moved away from it. Even their 16-17 lakhs Creta received a 4* rating.

BTW - Is new Brezza's feature list out?

We can see an armrest in the photos shared by Vid. Can you please list down those Creta's nifty features. It can help me make my decision if I would feel that those are important.

All, I'm saying is Maruti being stingy than others when it comes to adding value in their refreshed models.

We'll it is OK for any other manufacturer who is having low market share to do this. But Maruti holding 50%+ market-share consistently and India being its largest market, bigger than its home market Japan - one will expect them to treat Indian consumers as special. Especially, when they are making tons of volume-based profits compared to competitors, there is simply no reason for them to be average in everything.

Being stingy I think is Maruti's success mantra for sure. But if the product itself has merits that the buyers see, then it will be successful.

Disclaimer: Brezza is a great car, it sells like that not without valid reasons. I'm not bashing anyone's choice of picking Maruti over any other brand car. Individually, everyone is capable of picking the right car for their needs. I'm trying to do an objective comparison at a macro level on who gives more value and who works hard to produce a "better car". It should be taken in the right context.

Good to know.

It's all market dynamics. Other manufacturers are getting their share of success as well. Nexon itself is a game changer for TATA. Each manufacturer has it's own focus and doing what they can to succeed in the market.

But one thing is for sure, everyone is in the game for making profits. 'Better car' is the notion that some manufacturers might succeed to put in our heads so that at the end we buy their cars and help them make money.

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by ank.nsit

BTW - Is new Brezza's feature list out?

We can see an armrest in the photos shared by Vid.

Brezza got adjustable front armrest since day one in its top variant.

Regards,
Shashi

PS: Changes I could spot in the facelift Brezza are:

1. K15B Petrol Engine(without SHVS in MT).
2. Auto Dimming IRVM
3. Dual Projector LED Headlamps with proper DRLs and integrated flashers.
4. LED front Fog Lights
5. LED Taillights with better illuminated area
6. Smaller Roof Antenna.
7. Different Alloy Wheels
8. Leather Wrapped Steering wheel
9. Different HU with Smartplay Studio(Harman)
10. Different front and rear Bumpers.
11. Auto folding ORVM
12. Slightly different pattern for the silver bits. Earlier they mimicked brush aluminium pattern, now they have honeycomb sort of design.
13. New color options

[smileline]

For the benefit of prospective customers, they should have published the brochure with feature distribution in various variants.

[pannags]

A very interested thread indeed. I guess all of us know and perhaps agree how MSIL/SMIL can, and has been, getting away with delivering somewhat lower car per car vis-a-vis competition. (borrowing from the Indica tagline from yesteryears)

Be it the choice of engines, transmissions, updates etc., they've always fallen short of enthusiasts expectations.

However, when it comes to after sales service, experience and record, they simply beat competition to pulp. That, is their single biggest USP.

Hypothetically speaking, if Maruti were to offer the VW DSG DQ200 on their cars, we would have significantly better acceptance for the one reason that, should there be a problem they'll go all out and solve it favourably for the customer - come what may.

Sorry if this was OT, but we know why everytime Maruti gets the basics right, they have a winner on hand.

[Dieselritzer]

All the online reviews I saw of xl6 automatic or the Ciaz automatic mention that the 4S TC is just average and on highways gives very poor mileage. The mileage part is something that Maruti users will not digest and I foresee a lot of people coming to service centres complaining of it.

[anoopGTkrish]

Originally Posted by ank.nsit

I am considering brezza petrol and I will tell you my reasons for it -
=======
Hence zeroed in for the compact SUV segment.

The options you have listed doesn't seem to be the usual choice for city cars. In fact both the EcoSport and Brezza are pretty capable highway cruisers and they are very similar in dimensions to the compass. Aren't you better off looking at a segment below especially since ground clearance doesn't seem to be a major decision driver.

[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by Dieselritzer

All the online reviews I saw of xl6 automatic or the Ciaz automatic mention that the 4S TC is just average and on highways gives very poor mileage. The mileage part is something that Maruti users will not digest and I foresee a lot of people coming to service centres complaining of it.

I found Ciaz AT good. I didn't hit the highway and in city it was surprisingly good. May be because, I drove with bare minimum expectations knowing it's a 4-speed. And, if I buy one it would be only because there is nothing around in this price range.

But yes, it beats me how long they will keep pushing this 4-speed? This gearbox made its first appearance in 2009 in A-Star and never left Maruti since. I would have preferred a CVT over this 4-speed, as in Baleno. How hard is it for Maruti to make or source at least a 5-speed? They expect to take on competition with this? It's like going to a gunfight with a knife in hand.

[volkman10]

Maruti Suzuki’s Vitara Brezza (P) to launch on 15th Feb.




Link

[guptad42]

I wonder if this stingy update strategy by Suzuki is due to specific targets.

The minimal change to the body or interiors, the ancient low cost 4speed AT, the high volume 1.5L petrol also shared with ciaz and ertiga and xl6- Suzuki is assembling the 2020 petrol brezza with low cost components built on depreciated equipment. This is designed for aggressive pricing. Suzuki want to make sure the price gap from comparable models is so large that it is difficult for most people to justify, unless you have taxi level running kilometers.

Suzuki may be shooting for a Vxi AT under 9.5Lacs on road undercutting likes of Venue AT by a large margin. Could be even a little lower as intro price.

Suzuki has a large capacity devoted to brezza, but was all diesel. Diesel buyers don't shift so easily to petrol. Overall market demand is still weak. So, Suzuki will be very aggressive in protecting their marketshare. Once it is well settled, expect a price rise just before festival season 2020.

[Dieselritzer]

Nexon XMA is 9.8 lacs on road. This is without any corporate or exchange bonus. The Nexon has more safety features, a better Audio even in XMA, and considering the AMT I have a feeling that the mileage might be better than what the Torque converter in Brezza might give.

If the vxi Auto is 9.5 lacs or so, the Nexon would make a better case.

The benefit Maruti has is that they will launch the auto in all variants so they cover the entire price range from 9 to 11/12 lacs whereas for Nexon after XMA it straight jumps to xza+ which is a substantial jump.

I'm waiting for the Brezza pricing. If it's too optimistic then I'll walk into the Tata showroom and buy that XMA. I'm hoping they price the ZXI Auto at around 10.5 to make it super competitive.

[guptad42]

Originally Posted by Dieselritzer

All the online reviews I saw of xl6 automatic or the Ciaz automatic mention that the 4S TC is just average and on highways gives very poor mileage. The mileage part is something that Maruti users will not digest and I foresee a lot of people coming to service centres complaining of it.

If the comparison is to 1.5 diesel MT on ertiga and ciaz, yes that's likely. That diesel engine is a gem. Too bad Suzuki shot itself in both the feet by not upgrading it to BS6 in time.

But I am surprised if the comparison is against petrol MT. I recall seeing a comparison of gear ratios of AT vs MT for ertiga, and the top gear on the AT is taller than the MT! That should deliver a good fuel average for AT in highway cruising applications.

The main worry on the AT was fuel consumption in city traffic, and the SHVS was added to improve that.

Though I hate that Suzuki calls it a hybrid. in my personal opinion, Indian regulations should classify hybrids with minimum 40-50KM electric only range with plug-in charging.

[guptad42]

Originally Posted by Dieselritzer

Nexon XMA is 9.8 lacs on road. This is without any corporate or exchange bonus. The Nexon has more safety features, a better Audio even in XMA, and considering the AMT I have a feeling that the mileage might be better than what the Torque converter in Brezza might give.

If the vxi Auto is 9.5 lacs or so, the Nexon would make a better case.

The benefit Maruti has is that they will launch the auto in all variants so they cover the entire price range from 9 to 11/12 lacs whereas for Nexon after XMA it straight jumps to xza+ which is a substantial jump.

I'm waiting for the Brezza pricing. If it's too optimistic then I'll walk into the Tata showroom and buy that XMA. I'm hoping they price the ZXI Auto at around 10.5 to make it super competitive.

I tend to agree with you.

With the entire Brezza volume at risk, if Suzuki really want to be gainers in this weak market, VXi AT should be just around 9L on road. Zxi AT at 10.25-10.5L also makes sense. They can do ZXI+ and Zxi(O) sort of things later for higher prices.

Nexon pricing suggests they have a supply constraint on the AT hardware. Otherwise, Nexon should have AT on all variants.

[evoker]

Originally Posted by Dieselritzer

I'm hoping they price the ZXI Auto at around 10.5 to make it super competitive.

I got my ZDI AMT for 10.6! 10.5 would be on the higher side.