[Aditya_Bhp]

Originally Posted by oxyzen

If some one is king in milking the Customers, it is MSIL. Swift was launched back in 2005 and it came with a 1.3L engine and a 5 speed GB. Fast forward 15 years, it is sold with 1.2L engine and a 5 Speed GB. Engine Power decreased from 87 BHP to 83 BHP, while torque increased from 113 to 115 NM. What a progress.

This is more to do with the govt sub 4 meter rule. The 1.2L from Maruti is still the best of the lots we have here. The Venue is available with a 1.2Litre.

Maruti is now launching multiple engine options for the same model, like the WagonR and the Ertiga and Ciaz Diesels. I believe they will launch the 1.5L Petrol, 1.2L petrol and the 1.5L Diesel for the Brezza. The 1.0 Turbo may turn out to be more expensive than the 1.5L even with the increased tax. I believe it will get an AMT instead of a TC as well.

[NiInJa]

Maruti's overconfidence in the Brezza has cost them a lot of delay in introducing the petrol variant. This should have been done atleast one year ago when the Nexon and XUV3OO were about to enter the market. The Venue is right on track to kill the Brezza.

Not sure why they cannot give the 1.0 L boosterjet just like Hyundai and others are giving.

[ferrarirules]

I think "Innovation" is not something that is KPI for Maruti execs. Such thought process when market is progressing leaps and bound is an path for doom. They have already lost ground to Venue due to lack of petrol and proper AT option. Now waiting till Feb 2020 to launch at petrol option in Brezza with a sad 4 speed AT. What were they doing in last 3 years, how difficult was it to plonk the new 1.5 L engine at the same time as Ciaz and Ertiga?

I think Maruti needs a change of management to one which is more aggressive. The market dynamics are changing gone are the days when people are going to buy a Maruti because of the name. Buyers are getting knowledgeable by the day.

[volkman10]

Maruti Suzuki's Petrol Variants of Vitara Brezza and S Cross to be launched by December 2019.


Larger diesel cars could get the BS6 option and under study ( Engines from Toyota?)



Link

[ramzsys]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Maruti Suzuki's Petrol Variants of Vitara Brezza and S Cross to be launched by December 2019.

Only the 1.0 motor from the Baleno RS can help; the 1.5 petrol from the Ertiga would be disastrous in terms of FE.

Here's the numbers:

1.0 : 101 bhp@5500 rpm and 150 Nm of torque@1700-4500 rpm.
1.5 : 103 bhp@6000 rpm and 138 Nm @ 4400 rpm.


Even then, it's advantage Venue 1.0(118 bhp, 172@1500 rpm).

[anthusiast]

Originally Posted by ramzsys

the 1.5 petrol from the Ertiga would be disastrous in terms of FE.

Just curious to know why the 1.5L from Ertiga wouldn't give a FE close to 1.5 Brezza. Ertiga weighs 1135 (P) /1165 (D) KGs. Whereas Brezza (D) weighs 1170. So the petrols should almost weigh same.

[ramzsys]

Originally Posted by anthusiast

Just curious to know why the 1.5L from Ertiga wouldn't give a FE close to 1.5 Brezza. Ertiga weighs 1135 (P) /1165 (D) KGs. Whereas Brezza (D) weighs 1170. So the petrols should almost weigh same.

Ertiga ARAI FE is around 19; the sales adviser said I can expect 15 kmpl in real conditions.

Petrol consumption increases with each additional passenger and below 2k range where we floor the pedal for brisk performance -unlike a turbo petrol/diesel.

[tarik.arora]

Originally Posted by ramzsys

Only the 1.0 motor from the Baleno RS can help; the 1.5 petrol from the Ertiga would be disastrous in terms of FE.

I have a completely opposite view on this. Turbo petrol engines are very sensitive to throttle inputs. Unless they are driven sedately, they return pretty bad FE numbers. Look at the real life FE numbers for Nexon, Venue, EcoBoost etc. and you will know.

A 1.5 NA engine is more suited for our kind of driving over a 1.0-litre turbo. Only hardcore enthusiasts will prefer a turbo petrol. Also, a bigger capacity engine generally feels less strained than a low capacity high output engine. Lastly, as they say, "there is no replacement for displacement"

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by anthusiast

Just curious to know why the 1.5L from Ertiga wouldn't give a FE close to 1.5 Brezza. Ertiga weighs 1135 (P) /1165 (D) KGs. Whereas Brezza (D) weighs 1170. So the petrols should almost weigh same.

Super attention to detail mate. Loved it! Indeed - it seems like the weight difference is purely down to the engine's weight. And Ertiga & Brezza D are almost identical to each other in weight.

Originally Posted by ramzsys

Ertiga ARAI FE is around 19; the sales adviser said I can expect 15 kmpl in real conditions.
Petrol consumption increases with each additional passenger and below 2k range where we floor the pedal for brisk performance -unlike a turbo petrol/diesel.

15kmpl for such a large vehicle which will already be around 1.5Lakh INR cheaper than diesel version is a very good mileage for long term ownership cost calculation (one of the prime reasons why people buy diesels). Also - the Brezza will always seat around 3 people on average and 5 maximum whereas Ertiga can seat upto 7. So the variance in mileage in case of Brezza will be lesser. There is always an option to retrofit a CNG kit into it as well if one wishes. And if mileage numbers seem nervous, Maruti will throw in the SHVS to give more confidence to customers. They have the technology anyway, just that they don't generally put it in the sub-4M segment. Simply since its not needed there to save taxes.

The real downer won't be mileage, it will be the performance. It will not be an enthusiastic car to drive. Something that the 1.3MJD was still able to give when revved on the highway.

Also - with a K15 engine, the car will NOT qualify for the sub-4M segment excise duty benefits. It will be taxed same as other higher segment cars & will not be cheap when compared to Nexon, Venue, XUV300 who's Petrol trims are already very competitively priced & even in brackets of some smaller hatchbacks! Its such a disaster that Maruti doesn't have a 1.2 turbo petrol engine when it has the best 1.2 NA engine. They were too complacent & caught off guard line none other. They were selling Brezza with high kit and lower power engine so far. Now they have to sell it with the same kit, costlier excise slab than competition & still try to price it lower to stay in competition against the peers. I won't be surprised if the petrol Brezza comes out with lighter build than current one to save on materiel costs & maintain margins. Very interested to see how it is built in comparison to the current fairly robust one.

The only engine that can give them the sub4M benefits is the 1.0 BoosterJet. But that engine is imported and costlier than paying the higher excise duty. No better example of a catch22 scenario.

Out of the 1.0BoosterJet & K15, I'd still pick the K15. For it is far simpler in construction, inherently rugged and abuse friendly & much cheaper to repair should something fail. And I'd pick a refined 4 cyl engine over a 3 cyl thrum any day even if it means I'm the last one to move off a traffic signal.

[SchumiFan]

I don't think Maruti will lose out to it's competitors because of the bigger engine tax disadvantage. Since most of the competition are turbo petrols, they are costing as much as their diesel counterparts.

Maruti can very well do the same if they choose to put the 1.5L engine. If they can improve on the numbers that'll be good, even otherwise, it's standard Maruti affair there.

Just launch the car already though. It's been ages.

[Karthik Chandra]

Originally Posted by spanner777

I doubt if Maruti would give the 1.5L petrol engine in the Brezza as that would take off the tax benefit the under 4m car is getting.

Originally Posted by Reinhard

Also - with a K15 engine, the car will NOT qualify for the sub-4M segment excise duty benefits. It will be taxed same as other higher segment cars & will not be cheap when compared to Nexon, Venue, XUV300 who's Petrol trims are already very competitively priced & even in brackets of some smaller hatchbacks!

Ford has been selling the Ecosport with a 1.5 ltr petrol engine since its inception in 2013. So MS wouldn't have trouble in pricing the Brezza with the K15.

[ramzsys]

Originally Posted by tarik.arora

Turbo petrol engines are very sensitive to throttle inputs. Unless they are driven sedately, they return pretty bad FE numbers. Look at the real life FE numbers for Nexon, Venue, EcoBoost etc. and you will know.

My point being, Turbo petrols give best of both the worlds- floor it and you have a performance machine, while going soft returns excellent FE. Ask any 1.2 TSI owner!

Originally Posted by Karthik Chandra

Ford has been selling the Ecosport with a 1.5 ltr petrol engine since its inception in 2013. So MS wouldn't have trouble in pricing the Brezza with the K15.

Nexon and Eco(boost)sport are bogged down by their kerb weight. One of the bhpian reported 19 kmpl from the Venue 1.0 manual in his long trip.

Brezza till now had the advantage of diesel which wasn't totally dead in the idling->1500 rpm where more effort is needed to push the car from standstill; whether the NA petrol can do that is my question; precisely why ford replaced the original 4 pot 1.5 petrol with a 3 cylinder but more torque-y one.

[nikipedia87]

Originally Posted by ramzsys

Brezza till now had the advantage of diesel which wasn't totally dead in the idling->1500 rpm where more effort is needed to push the car from standstill; whether the NA petrol can do that is my question; precisely why ford replaced the original 4 pot 1.5 petrol with a 3 cylinder but more torque-y one.

The K15 engine is supposed to have a good bottom end, as vouched by many on the forum. So if it can haul a 7-seater Ertiga, it shouldn't have a problem with the 5-seater Brezza which, incidentally, weighs almost the same as the Ertiga. It may not be as punchy as the Dragon in the mid range though, but shouldn't be a major issue IMO.

[2cents]

May be I missed it, but is it decided it's going to be either the 1L turbo or K15? Has Suzuki ruled out the K12 with Smart Hybrid and 88 BHP?? A compromise on both ends, or best of both worlds, depending on the way you look at it!

[fhdowntheline]

VW’s 1.2 TSI engine is one of the best petrol engines in India south of 20 lac Rs. While not exactly silky smooth in its general character, it doesn’t feel out of breath during high revving situations and mated to the brilliant DSG box. extracts great performance relative to its size and segment. Maruti could have perhaps looked at the 1.4 t-jet/ Multi air engine from FCA as part of the deal, seeing that there are generally no takers for anything with an FCA DNA in India right now. Even in its 125bhp avatar, the Brezza would have been a handful compared to its peers.