[SoumenD]

Originally Posted by Rajeevraj

...Premium hatchbacks are within sniffing distance of 10L for top variants

In bangalore the 3 primary premium hatches have crossed 11L OTR. While picking up the Jazz CVT in April this year, I did test-drive the Baleno & i20 CVTs as well and all 3 were 11L+.

After test driving multiple cars what I could see is under 10L ex-showroom there's hardly any car which has decent build quality+good auto transmission+features+good space. Nexon was my 1st choice but sadly the AMT killed it for me. Jazz was my best compromise, so had to shell out almost a lakh more than my intended budget for a hatch. Relatives in smaller towns still can't believe I spent upwards of a million for a choti-gaadi(small car)

Originally Posted by avira_tk

The primary consideration of the buyer is looks and popularity
.

This indeed plays an important role in mass market. When one sees a lot of copies of a single car around, there's a sense of belief that not everyone can be wrong and that further adds to the popularity. Add to that the pathetic road conditions making the need of higher GC almost mandatory these days. Hence these sub-compact-UVs make a lot of sense and the manufacturers are milking this mindset for now. If government utilized the road-tax money judiciously & provided decent roads all around, sedans(City,Verna,Rapid) sure would have sold more.

Originally Posted by NiInJa

why would someone pay 12 lakhs for Brezza when there is a much bigger car available at lesser price is beyond me.

Not everyone is comfortable with the MUV looks probably.

[deemash]

Brezza is pushed down due to the sales of Venue (or combined with Creta). Good one for Hyundai for selling 7k+ units of Venue.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by Thermodynamics

These are bad numbers, don't want to see them. These charts cry for serious reforms in taxation, for some kind of stimulus.

Auto sector needs support. The sector employs so many, if this trend continues, can't think of the unemployment scene.

Auto Industry appears to be struggling overall. Isn't it time we rename this thread to
"May 2019 : Indian NEW Car Sales Figures & Analysis" and probably start one for used car sales. Yes i`m aware that we may not get those sales figures due to used car market being unorganized sector. However at this rate, used car market will overtake new car market within a few years.

I`m very concerned, we were just seeing a lot of action in the sub 10L segment recently and it would be a shame to lose it. Imagine, we can only afford used cars and that too before they turn 10 years old and then having to buy a bullock cart without airbags!!

Originally Posted by hydraulicsteer

Some Market Red Flags:

Jeep: With Zero Punto-Linea sales and ever dwindling Compass numbers, future of this brand in India is highly uncertain. They should have brought Renegade by now. No company ever succeeded as a one model wonder. People highly adventurous with their money can and will still go for a Compass.

The old stalwarts of the segment lives on , after the initial media hype and excitement among petrol heads, few actually bought one - In the end, compass is a Fiat (For all its merits and demerits)!

Originally Posted by blackasta

[*]Sumo - what happened? quiet withdrawal?[/list]

I recently saw 12 of them Xylos being delivered to a cab company. Xylo (supposed to be discontinued) seems to have sold better than Hexa.

Originally Posted by NiInJa

I mean, why would someone pay 12 lakhs for Brezza when there is a much bigger car available at lesser price is beyond me. Even the Ciaz petrol top end manual costs less than the top end Brezza.

We Indians are travelling on roads trips more than ever before and therefore SUV types are here to stay until the road conditions improve significantly. Many sedan friends of mine would want to take an SUV when they are going to places where they are unsure of the road conditions.

I think someone graduating from a hatch or sedan is looking for ease of use overall (Car like), Brezza scores well here in comparison to a Bolero. Considering Ecosport which is visibly smaller sold for a similar price 5 years ago with 6-8 months waiting period, this is okay.

[jagzrk]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

We Indians are travelling on roads trips more than ever before and therefore SUV types are here to stay until the road conditions improve significantly. Many sedan friends of mine would want to take an SUV when they are going to places where they are unsure of the road conditions.

Couldn't agree more. While we would want a bigger car, a higher car makes so much sense. Being (ever?) developing nation, we would have road constructions going on all the time or road repairs, or potholed un-repaired roads, or no roads, or roads with just too many speed breakers.

With a sedan or hatchback with lower clearance, you'd have to come to almost a crawling stop on every unscientific speed breaker which are usually all speed breakers if not for pot-holes or bad roads.

The roads or road situation is not improving anytime soon, so pseudo-SUV cars are here to stay.

OT, I think a statistical analysis would reveal we could probably save 20% of our fuel imports just by banning speed breakers. Just install a speed cam in place of that speed breaker and the government could earn more $$$ as well.

[turbowhistle]

Originally Posted by SoumenD

Hyundai :
Venue seems to have affected its own siblings Creta & i20 along with the Brezza. But too early to judge. A few more months would give a better picture if the shortcomings that we discussed to death on the Venue thread actually matters to the market or not.

Grand i10 case seems curious to me. One side its running almost 1L discount & on other hand they have so many shipments month-on month being dispatched. Usually we see discounts on cars which sell less & eventually shipments are controlled as well?

Although Venue seems to be affecting Creta and i20 now, I feel it's momentarily. Soon it will settle down and start denting Brezza sales. Creta has it's own fan base for totally different reasons ( more premium than Venue/i20) and i20 is a legend in itself when it comes to premium hatchbacks. Hyundai will be fine as long as the cross shopping is happening on the same floor.

Grand i10 seems to have benefited from the Santro crowd. Imagine going to a Hyundai Showroom to get the Santro and being swayed away by a superior price for a marginal hike. It makes total sense over the three pot cylinder and again Grand i10 feels much more premium for that segment. As for the big discounts, Hyundai must have recovered the investment in Grand i10 and the discounts are not hampering the profits for them. Seems to be working for them. It is a very sorted car with a small footprint and good TC which makes it a strong case for Small families/Second Car.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by blackasta

EVs also mean that you can use hydroelectricity, wind power, solar power, and nuclear power etc to drive your car - now we can't carry any of those in a car right?

Agree, EVs can be powered by electricity generated thru renewable sources.

But at present, in India, approx 80% of total power generated at grid is from fossil fuel. Hope in near future, this percentage will be replaced by renewable energy source to render EVs less pollutant. Also EVs are costlier to afford, which might not help Auto Industry in short term.

This itself a big topic for discussion; may be we can analyse in some other thread!

[SoumenD]

Originally Posted by turbowhistle

Grand i10 seems to have benefited from the Santro crowd. Imagine going to a Hyundai Showroom to get the Santro and being swayed away by a superior price for a marginal hike. It makes total sense over the three pot cylinder and again Grand i10 feels much more premium for that segment.

Correction: Santro isn't a 3 pot engine. It is a proper 4 cylinder. But agreed, compared to it the grand i10 is a much superior product at a marginally higher price

[NiInJa]

Originally Posted by avira_tk

I can't see any reason why someone would pick the Ciaz over the Brezza, loaded up with passengers and luggage, the Ciaz / any sedan will be crawling when you encounter a speed bump or a bad road, Brezza meanwhile would breeze over such imperfections. The tall step in height means that the brezza is better for your hip bone in the long term.

Yes, the sub 4m SUVs have a little advantage over sedans when it comes to bad roads, no doubts about it, but the fact that they are more expensive than sedans which offer better leg room, better rear seats and much bigger boot is what really confuses me. We had a Fiat Linea before we brought the Ertiga, and we did a lot of road trips, including bad/no roads too, sure, we had to take a little extra care when driving on bad roads, but never was it a show stopper. Its ground clearance was increased in 2012 by Fiat after sales service, things changed completely after that. Also, its not always that we encounter bad roads on road trips. Conditions of most roads is improving, including rural areas too. I never faced any discomfort to my body during long drives with a sedan in the last 9 years. A friend of mine bought the base version of Honda City instead of the Brezza/Nexon and has driven the car in farm fields without any fuss. He thinks its the best decision he ever made in his life.

I just feel bad for sedans when they sell less than these hatchbacks on stilts. Except for the ground clearance, they offer much more.

[lmilind]

Originally Posted by NiInJa

Yes, the sub 4m SUVs have a little advantage over sedans when it comes to bad roads, no doubts about it, but the fact that they are more expensive than sedans which offer better leg room, better rear seats and much bigger boot is what really confuses me. We had a Fiat Linea before we brought the Ertiga, and we did a lot of road trips, including bad/no roads too, sure, we had to take a little extra care when driving on bad roads, but never was it a show stopper. Its ground clearance was increased in 2012 by Fiat after sales service, things changed completely after that. Also, its not always that we encounter bad roads on road trips. Conditions of most roads is improving, including rural areas too. I never faced any discomfort to my body during long drives with a sedan in the last 9 years. A friend of mine bought the base version of Honda City instead of the Brezza/Nexon and has driven the car in farm fields without any fuss. He thinks its the best decision he ever made in his life.

I just feel bad for sedans when they sell less than these hatchbacks on stilts. Except for the ground clearance, they offer much more.

I was having Etios for more than 7 Yrs and switched to Creta SX manual few months back but trust me, it makes a lot of difference particularly for long drives

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by NiInJa

Yes, the sub 4m SUVs have a little advantage over sedans when it comes to bad roads, no doubts about it, but the fact that they are more expensive than sedans which offer better leg room, better rear seats and much bigger boot is what really confuses me. We had a Fiat Linea before we brought the Ertiga, and we did a lot of road trips, including bad/no roads too, sure, we had to take a little extra care when driving on bad roads, but never was it a show stopper. Its ground clearance was increased in 2012 by Fiat after sales service, things changed completely after that. Also, its not always that we encounter bad roads on road trips. Conditions of most roads is improving, including rural areas too. I never faced any discomfort to my body during long drives with a sedan in the last 9 years. A friend of mine bought the base version of Honda City instead of the Brezza/Nexon and has driven the car in farm fields without any fuss. He thinks its the best decision he ever made in his life.

I just feel bad for sedans when they sell less than these hatchbacks on stilts. Except for the ground clearance, they offer much more.

Sure, City probably feels a class above in terms of Engine, space, handling etc.

South Bangaloreans can relate to this very well especially now, RV road due to white topping (Concrete) turns into a small narrow road just before Lalbagh metro station (if you go through the barricades from South end, small gap is there now). The concrete road has sharp shoulder, and then you enter a ditch before climbing onto the small road diversion. One brand new Amaze became a tripod and lost small bits of its front bumper in the process followed by various damages to many other Etios, i10s etc, not to mention the traffic chaos just this morning. Something like Ecosport\ Brezza wont have a problem here at all. (A bit of wheel spin maybe)

While a sub4M SUV many not be far apart from a Sedan in terms of capability, It will have less damage when going off the beaten path, that is undeniable.

[B103]

Originally Posted by SoumenD

In bangalore the 3 primary premium hatches have crossed 11L OTR. While picking up the Jazz CVT in April this year, I did test-drive the Baleno & i20 CVTs as well and all 3 were 11L+.

It is it is a fact that Indians are smoothly fleeced by car companies and Government at different levels.

See the price of CR-V in USA: https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/honda/cr-v . The entry level model's price is USD 24,350 which is approx 16.9 lacs in INR. Entry level model is 2 wheel drive petrol automatic: https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/...r-v/2019/specs

In comparison, the ex-showroom price of base CR-V model in India is 28.2 lac as per Carwale. This is also a 2 wheel drive petrol automatic. In both the countries, this price would be factoring in the manufacturing costs and some taxes. On top of this, we further pay hefty taxes and insurance in India. However, we get great roads and infrastructure to drive in India unlike USA

One can only buy a Honda City top end model at the same price point at which a CR-V can be rolled out in USA. I think Government makes more money than Honda themselves when a CR-V is sold. Buying new cars had become such a profligacy.

[Arwin07]

Ford is silently (or loudly?) sinking in India.

Ford cars are not even in top 3 of Premium hatchback or Compact sedan or Compact SUV segments. Its sole consolation EcoSport is now in 5th place in its segment.

The saddest thing is that Ford cars are fun to drive, relatively safer, have good mileage and have low service costs. Still their cars refuse to sell.

Ford has low permeability in 2nd and 3rd tier cities, rural places. It is a question of whether egg or chicken comes first. Whether you wait for more sales to double/triple your showroom into rural towns or double/triple your showroom numbers first and wait for increase in sales. Ford has deep pockets to do the latter and get into top 3.

Ford's line up is incomplete. It needs a full size Sedan (Ford Mondeo- UK), a 5 seater 2litre SUV (Ford Edge- UK), a 7 seater MUV which can be used as a carrier with custom removal of seats- 9-15 lakhs OTR.

Not messing with features every hour. Typical Ford feature list is like: Titanium+ has SYNC3 at 3pm, no SYNC3 but TPMS added at 4pm, SYNC3 readded but TPMS and cruise control deleted at 5pm.



No reaching out to potential customers- no major advertisement campaigns, no stalls offering test drive across various locations in cities.

I hope Ford doesn't sink in India. If they continue what they are doing now, Ford will sink in a matter of few years.

[vsrivatsa]

Wow! What an entry for the Venue - Hyundai folks must be extremely happy. It has ended the undisputed run that Brezza has had for some years now.

I hope we see some fitting competition to the Creta soon - will it be the Hector?

The Glanza move from Toyota also seems to have done well but we need to wait and watch how this pans out. Given the aggressive pricing and the respect that we Indians have for the T Badge I am wondering if the numbers will increase in the coming months.

Jeep Compass falls to 3 digits. With the Hector entering into the fight, I guess it will stay there or reduce some more.

Originally Posted by NiInJa

A friend of mine bought the base version of Honda City instead of the Brezza/Nexon and has driven the car in farm fields without any fuss. He thinks its the best decision he ever made in his life.

Ha Ha! Good analysis and example. That is true, a sub 4m can never match up to the space offered by a full sized sedan. Hopefully the Hector if priced well should be a good option in the price range of sedans.

[mroutlander]

Originally Posted by B103

See the price of CR-V in USA: https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/honda/cr-v . The entry level model's price is USD 24,350 which is approx 16.9 lacs in INR. Entry level model is 2 wheel drive petrol automatic: https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/...r-v/2019/specs

In comparison, the ex-showroom price of base CR-V model in India is 28.2 lac as per Carwale. This is also a 2 wheel drive petrol automatic.

Slightly OT: While the CR-V is atrociously overpriced in India, I believe a chunk of this excess price is due to the fact that it comes via the CKD route. Though it is a cheaper model than CBU imports, it still has a price premium attached to it.

But yes, even with complete indigenization of models like Civic and CR-V, HMIL might still stay greedy and keep the prices artificially high.

Originally Posted by Arwin07

I hope Ford doesn't sink in India. If they continue what they are doing now, Ford will sink in a matter of few years.

I think the shot-callers at Ford realize a lot of that and that's why they are in a handshake with M&M. The extent of this collaboration/partnership can be learnt later perhaps, but Ford would expect to the reap the harvests of merged synergies (as would M&M)

[Sir"CAR"]

Forgive my ignorance, but does anyone have an idea of who the customers for the Mahindra Bolero are? Do the sales figures include the pick-up truck variant? Are these predominantly in rural areas?