[5kmiles]

Originally Posted by GTO

Over the years, I've come to accept that there is no such thing as a "perfect car" (or perfect anything ). Am willing to let go of a little bit of the Creta / Tucson's peace-of-the-mind ownership for the driving pleasure of the Compass. I guess many owners think this way, else the Camry would be the only sedan people buy for 40 lakhs.

As long as the reliability is "acceptable", I'm okay with a European / Indian / American car.

Posted similarly in the D1 segment thread:

Agree 100%. Test drove the Compass a few days back and the car is wow. Am in market for an SUV with rather flexible price band of 25-35L. If it had bit more space at the back and boot was better shaped, it would have helped its cause. Dealership experience was way way ahead of every other carmaker in the segment.

Challenge with Jeep is not only the poor service network and below average initial build quality but also the risk of Jeep folding up or landing with a Chinese car maker that might not be able to serve the owners.

[Mission_PGPX]

Originally Posted by GTO

Trust FCA India to botch up a fantastic product. When the Diesel AT came earlier this year, they launched it only in the Trailhawk trim & tried to do a Mercedes (i.e. premium pricing for a small package). The Trailhawk fell flat on its own face, with a prominent dealer telling me no one is interested in it.

That said, I'm glad to finally see that a more reasonably priced Diesel AT is planned. This remains one of my favourite cars on sale in India . Looking forward to test-driving it.

I test drove trailhawk couple of days back in ahmedabad. The approach of SA was good with comparatively better knowledge about the product. It costs 30.6 lacs onroad here in Ahmedabad. Following are my initial observation:
1) Missing some basic features one expects in halo product: No electric front seats, no auto headlights
2) After driving z germans for last 7 years i was expecting a punchy 9 speed dual clutch transmission. but i was wrong. The power and torque numbers look good on paper, however the gearbox kills it. According to SA, the peak torque comes in over 2100 rpm. you can hear the turbo whistle over 2100 rpm inside the cabin which is good in a way (feels like BOV). The car is heavy and feels that way. The demo car was not showing in which gear the DSG is at a particular speed however SA said in delivery cars this is updated. I wonder how. In all, car lacks the punch we are addicted to in germans. 0-100 takes about 12 seconds which i feel is too long after driving remaps and what not.
To make matters worst, there is no sport mode in DSG. You have to put the transmission in manual mode to see rpm needle touching redline.

3) The positive part is the build quality and looks. The car feels fresh. The ride is excellent, no harshness or unnecessary movement inside cabin due to small undulations on road. Even during a little offroading it doesnt move you that much and you can focus on where you are going. The seating position is also acceptable (for people used to drive low seating sedans. The visibility overall is good. AC works fine.

4) In summary, the trailhawk is best for those sedate highway drives during monsoons. Gives you that confidence of taking your car almost anywhere. Off-roading is not only about capability of a car its also about capability of its driver.

5) Comparing it to Tiguan, I have to give it to Tiguan simply for more practicality and understated elegance. The reclining rear seats, all LED headlights etc are such nice touches that makes the experience richer. Also, it comes with a guaranteed remap possibilities with that smooth DQ500 gearbox. However, the ride is tiguan is stiff compared to Trailhawk.

I am not sure about the remap possibilities with Trailhawk engine. So all in all, i am not really sure if putting the same gearbox in lower variants will attract more enthusiast buyers.

[avinash_clt]

Originally Posted by Mission_PGPX

2) After driving z germans for last 7 years i was expecting a punchy 9 speed dual clutch transmission. but i was wrong.
.........
The demo car was not showing in which gear the DSG is at a particular speed however SA said in delivery cars this is updated.

The transmission used on the compass (ZF-9HP) is not a dual clutch unit. It utlilises a conventional torque converter and planetary gear seat, albeit with a very wide gear ratio range (between 1st and 9th gear).

[Vid6639]

Was doing some checking on the Compass automatic. Since right now you can only get the automatic with the trailhawk variant, I was interested in this news that lower variants might come with ZF9 AT box.

I realised that internationally anywhere that the Compass is sold it is sold with ZF9 and 2.0L MJD 170 engine. However the ZF9 is always 4x4.

There is no option anywhere where you can configure a ZF9 diesel with 2WD.

This means that it very highly unlikely that a diesel ZF9 auto 2WD will be offered in India.

Since the Trailhawk is range topping with a few goodies missing, the most likely event is that the 4x4 ZF9 auto will be available on lower limited or longitude models with a lot more features missing at lower price points.

So anyone waiting for a cheaper 2WD compass diesel AT with features can pretty much forget it and look at other options.

[alen]

Going a bit off topic here. I had been waiting for the Compass diesel AT for a long time. But alas FCA has a way of dashing hopes and dreams. Now the only option for me is to go for the Limited plus variant which comes with a lot of bells and whistles.
The new hurdle that is stopping me from making the purchase is the missing BS6 engine in the lower variants. Currently the BS6 is only available in the trailhawk.

Any clue as to when FCA plans to launch the BS6 in Limited plus or any other variant? The wait is killing me.

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by alen

Any clue as to when FCA plans to launch the BS6 in Limited plus or any other variant? The wait is killing me.

Why are you insisting on a BS6 if I may ask? Do note that it will result in a significant price bump on the already costly Compass. In fact its the BS6 that contributes considerably to the irrationally high price of the Trailhawk IMO.

[padmrajravi]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

Why are you insisting on a BS6 if I may ask? Do note that it will result in a significant price bump on the already costly Compass. In fact its the BS6 that contributes considerably to the irrationally high price of the Trailhawk IMO.

Because we really can't trust our government or the NGT to make sensible decisions. I know the finance ministry has said that all BS4 vehicles will have 15 year life, but that was what people thought when they bought diesel cars 10 years ago. NGT in a day could invalidate the registration of all such cars. Such assurances does not mean anything in the long term.

So you can never know. Who knows , NGT might on a whim declare that all BS4 vehicles be taken off the road some years from now. Since we are close to the transition period now, it is better to go for a BS6 car even at higher cost.

[MukundanMK]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

So anyone waiting for a cheaper 2WD compass diesel AT with features can pretty much forget it and look at other options.

Sir, most of us have already forgotten the Jeep Compass, in its current avatar and still looking for other options. For someone like me, the Jeep Compass is a bench mark. Everything good about it, apart from its price point. I am still sitting on a booking with Seltos and not able to agree on the price for GTX Auto. Also Seltos is at least 2 notches below the Jeep Compass, in terms of drivability (I have TDed only Seltos Diesel Manual and my comparison is to the JC Diesel Manual).

Its a bit of tough phase for Jeep. After the initial buzz, the Jeep Compass hasn't delivered the numbers. Trailhawk being priced north of 30L is in the elite club and definitely wont be seeing the numbers. LONGITUDE 4x2 (O) is around 19L and if they bring in a 4x4 Auto at around 21-22L, it will not be a volume generator for them. Similarly LIMITED 4x2 (O) is around 20.5L now and if they bring in a 4x4 Auto at around 22.5-23.5L, it will be dead on arrival again. We are not even talking about BS6 engine or 6 airbags and the price point is already too high, just by adding the auto gearbox.

Hector with its pricing has made other car manufactures think a lot and the features in Hector/Seltos, has set a new benchmark expectation amidst the car buying crowd. I doubt if buyers are willing to compromise on either of these and mostly their preference would be to compromise on neither of these.

Originally Posted by padmrajravi

So you can never know. Who knows , NGT might on a whim declare that all BS4 vehicles be taken off the road some years from now. Since we are close to the transition period now, it is better to go for a BS6 car even at higher cost.

Agree on this. I am having plans of buying a new car, which I would like to keep it for next 8-10 years. So I definitely dont want to compromise on BS6 engine, Auto gearbox and 6 airbags. BS6 is a tricky thing. Govt was insisting on EV all these while and the sudden recession in Automobile sector forced them to revive the ICE cars. My wife is using a Kwid and we will wait for 1-2 years and replace that with a Hatchback EV. Future is definitely EV and I see BS6 ICE cars running for a few more years. BS4 cars might come at a drooling price point, especially as we approach Apr 2020. But that would be risky in my opinion, especially if you have plans for using the new car for a longer period.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by MukundanMK

Its a bit of tough phase for Jeep. After the initial buzz, the Jeep Compass hasn't delivered the numbers. Trailhawk being priced north of 30L is in the elite club and definitely wont be seeing the numbers. LONGITUDE 4x2 (O) is around 19L and if they bring in a 4x4 Auto at around 21-22L, it will not be a volume generator for them. Similarly LIMITED 4x2 (O) is around 20.5L now and if they bring in a 4x4 Auto at around 22.5-23.5L, it will be dead on arrival again. We are not even talking about BS6 engine or 6 airbags and the price point is already too high, just by adding the auto gearbox.

This was kind of my point. I was thinking that if they get a 2WD compass with all the features of a limited plus they could price it competitively.

But that won't happen for sure since that option does not exist.

The 4x4 adds more than a lakh, the BS6 is similar 1 lakh, then ZF9 is probably 1.5L and trailhawk updates another 1L.

Remove trailhawk and 4x4 would result in 2L knocked off but now you are looking at 4x4+BS6+ZF9 so the lower models will easily be 2-3L more than the corresponding AT variants. This means even lower variants will be hovering around 30 price point.

The compass Trailhawk was nice to drive but not 35L nice.

[alen]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

Why are you insisting on a BS6 if I may ask? Do note that it will result in a significant price bump on the already costly Compass. In fact its the BS6 that contributes considerably to the irrationally high price of the Trailhawk IMO.

I understand that there would be a price bump (although technically there should not be as there is no hardware change in the emission system). However, if after 10 years I plan to sell the BS6 vehicle, there would be no buyers.

Originally Posted by padmrajravi

Because we really can't trust our government or the NGT to make sensible decisions. I know the finance ministry has said that all BS4 vehicles will have 15 year life, but that was what people thought when they bought diesel cars 10 years ago. NGT in a day could invalidate the registration of all such cars. Such assurances does not mean anything in the long term.

So you can never know. Who knows , NGT might on a whim declare that all BS4 vehicles be taken off the road some years from now. Since we are close to the transition period now, it is better to go for a BS6 car even at higher cost.

I completely agree on your point.

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by alen

I understand that there would be a price bump (although technically there should not be as there is no hardware change in the emission system).

Is it? So the current 2.0MJD needs no changes in exhaust system / adBlu management for soot burn, different cat-con, DPF etc to become BS6 compliant? Then why aren't they already selling it as BSVI rather than BSIV? I'm confused actually now.

Originally Posted by alen

However, if after 10 years I plan to sell the BS6 vehicle, there would be no buyers.

I presume you meant BSIV vehicle not BS6. 10 years later the difference in value fetched by a BSIV or a BSVI vehicle will be negligible in the big picture. In fact BSVI vehicles have more parts to maintain compared to BSIV and late model BSIV might well hold their prices on par with BSVI.

Well for any car other than a Maruti or Hyundai - after 10 years there are no buyers in India anyway . And its not linked to emission complaince at all. Hehe.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by alen

I understand that there would be a price bump (although technically there should not be as there is no hardware change in the emission system). However, if after 10 years I plan to sell the BS6 vehicle, there would be no buyers.

For diesel BS6 there is substantial hardware change, not so for petrol.

For example the diesel compass trailhawk BS6 uses a DPF+SCR+Adblue (Urea) injection system (heater+pump+sensors).

Similarly the Seltos diesel needs a LNT (Lean Nox trap) + DPF but no Adblue.

Originally Posted by Reinhard

Is it? So the current 2.0MJD needs no changes in exhaust system / adBlu management for soot burn, different cat-con, DPF etc to become BS6 compliant? Then why aren't they already selling it as BSVI rather than BSIV? I'm confused actually now.

[alen]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

For diesel BS6 there is substantial hardware change, not so for petrol.

For example the diesel compass trailhawk BS6 uses a DPF+SCR+Adblue (Urea) injection system (heater+pump+sensors).

Similarly the Seltos diesel needs a LNT (Lean Nox trap) + DPF but no Adblue.

Thanks for the information. Although an FCA engineer told me that it is just calibration changes to the DPF & SCR that they need to make between the current BSIV and BS6 version. He may have given only partial information then.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by alen

Thanks for the information. Although an FCA engineer told me that it is just calibration changes to the DPF & SCR that they need to make between the current BSIV and BS6 version. He may have given only partial information then.

Well the BS4 car doesn't have a DPF or SCR so dunno what's there to calibrate.

[rapid_fire]

I am waiting for the upcoming diesel automatic versions in the lower varients. The dealer told me it will be launched next month, will come with BS6 engines and will be priced 3.5 L above the corresponding manual variants (on road price). Is this true ? 3.5 L premium will result in a price tag of 27 L for the Longitude option automatic (on road price - Cochin)