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View Poll Results: Is MG India fooling prospective customers by masquerading as a British brand?
Yes 453 55.11%
No 265 32.24%
Can't say (subjective) 104 12.65%
Voters: 822. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 26th July 2019, 01:04   #136
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Default Re: Is MG alias SAIC fooling prospective buyers by selling a Chinese car as "British"?

I voted for Can't say (subjective).

I am an informed buyer and not bothered about SAIC doing anything unethical to market Hector with MG legacy or as British. My concerns will more about how the product will be performing few years down the line. How good will be the after-sale service. How efficiently they will honour the warranty, etc.

If the product is good for the money and reliable just buy and enjoy.

Cheers!
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Old 26th July 2019, 01:05   #137
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Default Re: Is MG alias SAIC fooling prospective buyers by selling a Chinese car as "British"?

It is appalling how so many people actually posted on this thread just for the heck of it. Guys, please read through all the 10 pages of this thread before penning down your post. Your arguments have already been brought up (and squashed) before.

I honestly have nothing more to say because people are just saying the same things over and over again, and after a point it gets really irritating.

For everyone who's in favour of MG's unethical practices, please scroll to the top of the page and take a look at the poll section. The numbers up there aren't misleading (unlike MG's portrayal of the Hector), and I believe my point has been made. Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neil.jericho View Post
Wow, how is this thread 9 pages deep?.......Should Geely have bought Volvo and then sold all Volvo cars under the Geely name?.......Seeing as VW owns Lamborghini, should we now go to a VW dealership to buy the VW Huracan?
Exactly. I fail to understand how so many arguments can be repeated over and over again. This thread runs 9 pages (now 10). Please, take your time and read through all the posts. I'm sure you'll find multiple people who have brought up these exact same points before, and how others have tried to make them understand that we're dealing with different scenarios here.

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Originally Posted by landcruiser123 View Post
That's where you have answer going by your logic- the feeling behind this thread is the anti-Chinese sentiment.
Love how you've arrived at that conclusion, buddy!

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 26th July 2019 at 14:05. Reason: Post edited: Do not use comments like "deep because of people like you"
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Old 26th July 2019, 02:02   #138
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Default Re: Is MG alias SAIC fooling prospective buyers by selling a Chinese car as "British"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boniver View Post
Just because others have done it and haven't been called out for the same doesn't mean that they're not wrong.
Respected Sir, you do agree with me that Mahindra has done the exact same 'crime' which MG has done. I hate to call it that, but it is purely marketing tactics, nothing wrong at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boniver View Post
Love how you've arrived at that conclusion, buddy!
If nobody bats an eyelid when Mahindra does it (no thread discussing the same) but are furious when SAIC does it, the only reason I can think of is anti-Chinese sentiments and/or double-standards. TBHP stands for neutrality and unbiased reviews. All the active members should represent the similar values, else we wouldn't be debating on the forum.

FYI- Please have a look at the Jawa motorcycles website too. It has the same 'legacy' section. We can take this over PM if you need more clarification. I don't want to go too much OT.

Last edited by landcruiser123 : 26th July 2019 at 02:11.
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Old 26th July 2019, 03:30   #139
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Default Re: Is MG alias SAIC fooling prospective buyers by selling a Chinese car as "British"?

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Originally Posted by ::CMS:: View Post

BTW, any idea what people chant when they enter the WULING ALMAS, "Hello WULING"...?

Yes sir. Hello Wuling. Skip to 11:10 in the video below

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Old 26th July 2019, 05:58   #140
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Default Re: Is MG alias SAIC fooling prospective buyers by selling a Chinese car as "British"?

Voting on this subject is so demeaning to ones intellect, it's similar to asking folks to vote on:

"11 am is night time."

Please vote on this:

1. Yes

2. No

3. Can't say.

Folks who know MG would never mistake a clumsy contraption called Hector for one and those who don't know MG aren't going to be affected anyway.

Last edited by AMG Power : 26th July 2019 at 06:23.
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Old 26th July 2019, 06:22   #141
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Default Re: Is MG alias SAIC fooling prospective buyers by selling a Chinese car as "British"?

With my interactions with friends who have gone ahead and booked /in the queue for the Hector, there weren't any who were not aware of the Chinese roots of the Car.
In fact, to most of them MG was as alien as SAIC was. Yes they do admit that they probably wouldn't have bought it if it had a Chinese name Baojun 530. Yes we have an aversion towards Chinese brands though most gadgets we use are made in China. However things are changing with brands like Mi/Redmi/Xiaomi. Mi is ample proof that superior products at value pricing with a nice sounding name would sell.

Just like Louis Philippe, which is now one of India's largest apparel brand, 30 years back launched itself by picking its name from a French king and went ahead and made merry in the market by providing superior products and a nice European (foreign) sounding name.
I might get bashed for comparing apparel and mobile phones to cars but this is how brands work.

Last edited by sureshkishore : 26th July 2019 at 06:24. Reason: Typo
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Old 26th July 2019, 06:41   #142
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Default Re: Is MG alias SAIC fooling prospective buyers by selling a Chinese car as "British"?

The examples that you quote are wrong. So many of us are bringing up the Aditya Birla brands - Van Heusen and Louis Phillippe. This example defeats your argument. These brands are not created by them. They are from UK based Coats Viyella which the Group acquired in 1999, solely for use in India, because they needed a premium aspirational GORA tag. Later they acquired the Company. So there you see, such activities are common in the 'marketing' space, and yes they are acquired to give that 'sheen' to your product portfolio. But once the Company acquires it they may launch it any manner, as it's their baby now.

1. Toyota with Lexus is not mere Badge Engineering, the whole car and company were reimagined (read the book) to pit it against the established players. Same with Acura, Genesis etc. 2. Toyota Glanza is a brand new brand slapped on Suzuki Baleno. It involves buying products from the latter and selling them in showrooms. 3. Lenovo was a leading laptop manufacturer even before the IBM buy, so the product was not unrelated to their core business. In fact, even Jawa complemented the Mojo. If Aditya Birla acquired Gucci and started selling their products as 'Gucci' it is up to the discernment of the buyer to pick it up. Ethics don't play a role here.

Another point I would add here is that as most of you have pointed out, cars are 'high involvement'. It's never an impulse purchase. So the buyer has taken sufficient time, energy and reading up (among other things) to arrive at that decision. The buyer certainly knows it is a Chinese manufactured car. Moreover, even competitors are drumming up the fact that MG Hector is 'a Chinese car'. But, in spite of all this 'awareness', the car sells like hotcakes.

So there are elements that have struck a chord with us Indians. I feel we need to discuss those more in a positive spirit because all said and done, this is indeed a triumph for MG and a case study. Don't be so dismissive by calling it a rebadging con. Buyers are buying a car that will last a decade, and realise they are 'stuck' with it. Selling cars is extremely tough and involves months of research even before 'Marketing' can sink their teeth into it. It's not easy!

Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalnirvana View Post
You're missing an important distinction. Those brands are built by them. Not appropriated from someone else. The brands are named "phoren" to make them premium

Last edited by Sebring : 26th July 2019 at 06:44.
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Old 26th July 2019, 08:15   #143
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Default Re: Is MG alias SAIC fooling prospective buyers by selling a Chinese car as "British"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by landcruiser123 View Post
Let's not take the debate on a political level. There are so many examples many other brands doing the same:
1. Jawa motorcycles are sold by Mahindra
2. Sail, Cruze and Spark sold by Chevy. Did we care whether these were S Korean product from Daewoo?
3. Duster, Logan and Lodgy sold by a French company but were designed by a Romanian brand.
4. Tavera was a badge engineered Isuzu product. Did we slam Chevy for selling us a Japanese product marketed by an American brand?
But we are talking about the trend of Chinese product being rebranded and sold in India with establishing of fake ties to a British brand that Indians don't know that well, other than that it is British.

1. The difference is that Mahindra is very clear that they are reviving a nostalgic brand and also that Mahindra is a trusted brand to begin with.

2. Sail was a Chinese product, it didn't sell well. Spark, everyone knew it was a new Matiz, but most people loved the Matiz even if they didn't love Daewoo. The Cruze is an actual Chevrolet product that was designed and sold in the US, not a chinese one.

3. The difference is that Dacia products were designed, engineered, sold and serviced by Renault, which has a global reputation, and that the solid engineering has proven itself on our roads. The Duster built bthe Renault brand in India, I would say.

4. Again, the Isuzu Panther was a solid product from a proven Japanese company that was used to build up the Chevrolet brand in India.

With the Hector, they are pushing the brand first and claiming heritage for their product, when they should be building the brand with the product.
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Old 26th July 2019, 08:17   #144
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Default Re: Is MG alias SAIC fooling prospective buyers by selling a Chinese car as "British"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boniver View Post
It is appalling how so many people actually posted on this thread just for the heck of it. Guys, please read through all the 10 pages of this thread before penning down your post. Your arguments have already been brought up (and squashed) before.
Yup, I agree with you. This thread doesnít deserve 10 pages. However itís a discussion forum and there are many people who disagree with your hypothesis. The arguments (that were squashed) will keep coming, because thereís so many precedents and your bias against Saic is so apparent.
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Old 26th July 2019, 08:36   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by landcruiser123 View Post
Respected Sir, you do agree with me that Mahindra has done the exact same 'crime' which MG has done. I hate to call it that, but it is purely marketing tactics, nothing wrong at all.
Sir, please point out where I've used the world crime in my previous posts. I'm saying this for the last time, but MG's portrayal of the Hector isn't illegal, it's unethical.
Quote:
Originally Posted by landcruiser123 View Post
If nobody bats an eyelid when Mahindra does it (no thread discussing the same) but are furious when SAIC does it, the only reason I can think of is anti-Chinese sentiments and/or double-standards. TBHP stands for neutrality and unbiased reviews. All the active members should represent the similar values, else we wouldn't be debating on the forum.
Like I've said, just because nobody spoke up against Mahindra doesn't mean they were not wrong. But that also doesn't mean people speaking up against MG are biased against the Chinese. In none of our posts will you find an anti-Chinese stance, and both the OP and I have made it clear in our posts that we're not targeting SAIC only because it's a Chinese company. If you don't want to believe us it's up to you. Anyone could've been pulled up, but unfortunately (or not, but who am I to decide?) it was SAIC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalvaz View Post
Yup, I agree with you. This thread doesnít deserve 10 pages. However itís a discussion forum and there are many people who disagree with your hypothesis. The arguments (that were squashed) will keep coming, because thereís so many precedents and your bias against Saic is so apparent.
My "bias against SAIC" is nothing but a figment of your imagination. Hope my reply to landcruiser123 above makes it clear.

Thanks, and have a great day.
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Old 26th July 2019, 09:05   #146
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Default Re: Is MG alias SAIC fooling prospective buyers by selling a Chinese car as "British"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekgk View Post

With the Hector, they are pushing the brand first and claiming heritage for their product, when they should be building the brand with the product.
Wait a minute. What does this even mean?

Did SAIC/MG sell some elite exclusive premium British MG Club Membership at an exorbitant price to Indians? Or did they add a MG heritage brand premium cost to the Hector?

The Hector as a product is offered with differentiating features at a competitive price. People are buying it.

I can understand the angst when companies do badge engineering and slap a premium on it. Even then, if there's a market for it then so be it. But MG didn't even do that. What's the problem here?
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Old 26th July 2019, 09:36   #147
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Default Re: Is MG alias SAIC fooling prospective buyers by selling a Chinese car as "British"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boniver View Post
It is appalling how so many people actually posted on this thread just for the heck of it. Guys, please read through all the 10 pages of this thread before penning down your post. Your arguments have already been brought up (and squashed) before.
And therein lies the problem, boniver. You rightly believe that other BHPians who share your perspective have laid all the points in your favour and that there is no longer any merit in what is being said by people who have voted no. The fact that you mention the arguments have been squashed reflects how strongly you feel this to be true.

But that is the catch. From the other side of the fence, I for one, cant fathom how anyone could vote yes because the points and explanations being made to justify the yes votes still have no merit in my eyes. That is a long way away from squashing the perspective of those who voted no.

And that is the beauty of open forums where we get to discuss different perspectives, even if they are opposing. When I first saw this thread, I was sure it would be a 5% Yes - 95% No result.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boniver View Post
For everyone who's in favour of MG's unethical practices, please scroll to the top of the page and take a look at the poll section. The numbers up there aren't misleading (unlike MG's portrayal of the Hector), and I believe my point has been made. Thank you.
Errr so forum members have to see which way the forum is voting and then realign their thought process accordingly ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boniver View Post
Exactly. I fail to understand how so many arguments can be repeated over and over again. This thread runs 9 pages (now 10) deep. Please, take your time and read through all the posts. I'm sure you'll find multiple people who have brought up these exact same points before, and how others have tried to make them understand that we're dealing with different scenarios here.
boniver, you have partially quoted my post and claim that people like me are the cause of the problem of plenty and have asked me to read through all the posts. On the other hand, if you had actually read my full post, you would have realized, the main focus of my post was to make a fellow BHPian understand that blacklisting products from countries that provide aid to Pakistan is counter productive. I have done this with examples of different countries, including our own, providing details and links. And this is not a point that has been discussed on this thread. So I fail to see your perspective and Im not sure how you have leaped to your conclusions.

Anyways, if this thread does not provide value to you or irritates you, please move on to the next one on this forum or any other forums. That is what I would do. Life has enough worries and tensions as it is and getting annoyed by what unknown people post on an automobile enthusiasts forum certainly doesnt help the cause.

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 26th July 2019 at 14:06. Reason: quoted post edited
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Old 26th July 2019, 10:25   #148
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Default Re: Is MG alias SAIC fooling prospective buyers by selling a Chinese car as "British"?

One good ( or bad thing, depending on which side of the fence you are) about this discussion is that considering the forum viewership and the popularity of this discussion, I am sure MG is getting a lot of free publicity.

The other good thing is that this thread and discussion will help potential buyers who have this whole 'chinese brand' concern in their minds get an insight into different aspects of the discussion and will potentially help make a more informed call.

Personally my opinion has not changed. We should evaluate on the merits of the product itself, not who made it and how it was marketed.

Last edited by Rajeevraj : 26th July 2019 at 10:26.
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Old 26th July 2019, 10:26   #149
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Default Re: Is MG alias SAIC fooling prospective buyers by selling a Chinese car as "British"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by neil.jericho View Post
And therein lies the problem, boniver. You rightly believe that other BHPians who share your perspective have laid all the points in your favour and that there is no longer any merit in what is being said by people who have voted no. The fact that you mention the arguments have been squashed reflects how strongly you feel this to be true.

But that is the catch. From the other side of the fence, I for one, cant fathom how anyone could vote yes because the points and explanations being made to justify the yes votes still have no merit in my eyes. That is a long way away from squashing the perspective of those who voted no.

And that is the beauty of open forums where we get to discuss different perspectives, even if they are opposing. When I first saw this thread, I was sure it would be a 5% Yes - 95% No result.
Please read my post and yours back to back. I've spoken about people being repetitive. If you have something new to contribute to this thread then by all means, do go ahead and write your thoughts out. Actually, even if you want to post anything else, go ahead, who am I to stop you? But you were wondering how this thread has reached 10 pages, and I was telling you how and why.
For the last time, let me tell you why people have voted Yes on this thread. It's because they see SAIC/MG's actions as unethical, even though they might be completely legal. Yes, they've bought the brand name and goodwill and they're completely free to use them, but we're questioning their ethics due to the way they've marketed the car solely on its heritage and the fact that it's a British product.
Quote:
Errr so forum members have to see which way the forum is voting and then realign their thought process accordingly ?
No, who's asking you to realign your thought process? The poll shows the general consensus, which is why this thread was started in the first place.
Quote:
boniver, you have partially quoted my post and claim that people like me are the cause of the problem of plenty and have asked me to read through all the posts. On the other hand, if you had actually read my full post, you would have realized, the main focus of my post was to make a fellow BHPian understand that blacklisting products from countries that provide aid to Pakistan is counter productive. I have done this with examples of different countries, including our own, providing details and links. And this is not a point that has been discussed on this thread. So I fail to see your perspective and Im not sure how you have leaped to your conclusions.

Anyways, if this thread does not provide value to you or irritates you, please move on to the next one on this forum or any other forums. That is what I would do. Life has enough worries and tensions as it is and getting annoyed by what unknown people post on an automobile enthusiasts forum certainly doesnt help the cause.
I quoted the part of your post that I wanted to address. The second part of your post (which I did not quote) was completely valid. However, the first part of your post contained stuff which had been addressed before (badge engineering, umbrella brand, etc), and that's what I wanted to point out.
Hope you're happy now though, since I've quoted all your posts in full. Also, hope I've made myself clear (the ethics part).

Cheers man, have a great day!
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Old 26th July 2019, 10:52   #150
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Default Re: Is MG alias SAIC fooling prospective buyers by selling a Chinese car as "British"?

Voted "Yes" - because they are trying to fool the customers.

But, marketing is all about making the consumer believe that the product is the best, or the best suit for them - kind of fooling.

We have Asian / Euro 5-star (maximum) NCAP rated cars. But does that mean we are 100% safe in that car? What if the crash happens at 120 KMPH? What will happen if a huge car-sized brick falls on it? What if a land mine explodes under the car? So, the top-star rating is very relative. And companies use this stars to sell their cars.

As long as SAIC has the right to sell "MG" and "Hector" names, they are free to fool us by combining them. But as I mentioned in some other thread, it's the customers' own responsibility not to fall to those traps.

Last edited by romeomidhun : 26th July 2019 at 10:56.
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