[Holyghost]

Originally Posted by travelwriter

I voted YES.
Also, I have seen that the Chinese business model is to create poor quality for markets such as ours and some Latin American countries. The same product (this car, for instance) will have much better quality when sold in places like Europe or Australia.

I am quite confident that in a year or so, these Hectors will start developing quality issues.

Travelwriter

How is it different when Suzuki, Renault and other manufacturers does the same to Indian customers by providing unsafe and poor quality products for Indian market while giving better quality products for other markets? Look at the quality differences in Indian Swift vs exported model. Indian Kwid vs Kwid for Latin America. Why single out Chinese business for that matter?

[simeonovitch]

Originally Posted by Holyghost

How is it different when Suzuki, Renault and other manufacturers does the same to Indian customers by providing unsafe and poor quality products for Indian market while giving better quality products for other markets?

Infact the Chinese are giving us the same car that they sell overseas, whereas our own are giving us a lot worse.

Nobody had a problem with Chevrolet Enjoy or Chevrolet Sail, but MG Hector is a problem. All three SAIC cars, for the uninitiated.

[Vitalstatistiks]

Originally Posted by simeonovitch

Nobody had a problem with Chevrolet Enjoy or Chevrolet Sail, but MG Hector is a problem. All three SAIC cars, for the uninitiated.

#FactCheck- GM India was a 50-50 venture with SAIC (for four years only), and in 2012, GM had increased its stake to 93%, with SAIC holding 7% in the Indian Co.

Yes- the SAIL was originally sold as Buick SAIL in China and rebadged as Chevrolet later. But that Buick SAIL was also manufactured by 50-50 JV with GM. In fact, the Buick SAIL itself is based on Opel Corsa, out and out GM brand.

Compare the above with MG. Where SAIC just bought the rights to the brand MG and slap it on whatever they want.

Hope the difference between the two is amply clear.

[Samir Taheer]

https://mg.co.uk/news/2010/06/16/new...g-opens-in-uk/

This was opened in 2018. SIAC also has a 'SAIC UK Technical Centre' with over 300 engineers. A number of SAIC products including the Hector, have had a significant influence from here.

So now can we just accept that its OK for SIAC to sell the Hector under the MG Brand?

[Holyghost]

Originally Posted by Samir Taheer

https://mg.co.uk/news/2010/06/16/new...g-opens-in-uk/

This was opened in 2018. SIAC also has a 'SAIC UK Technical Centre' with over 300 engineers. A number of SAIC products including the Hector, have had a significant influence from here.

So now can we just accept that its OK for SIAC to sell the Hector under the MG Brand?

No, The Hector is out of question. The enthusiasts here will accept only if a new vehicle is designed and manufactured in UK without selling it anywhere in China or its neighbors.
Also, atleast one of the designer should be a person who had actually designed one of the classic MGs. If none of them are alive, they have to be a direct descendant of the original designer.
The initial few vehicles has to be CBU from UK and later can be manufactured here in India.

[AGwagon]

I am sorry, for being quite late to this party but the whole genesis of SAIC and its numerous Brands, JVs (and their sub-brands) is a globalization story in itself. I mean, they have in their years of operation had JVs with all 4 of the automobile producing nations, the Japs (Mistubishi, Suzuki), with the Germans (VW- which again is a conglomerate of many nations), Americans (GM, which incidentally they reverse own now to about 40%) and Koreans (Daewoo). Granted these JVs were forced on them because of local policies in China, but it came at a time when we had Maruti-Suzuki and many such Public Private Partnerships existed in other countries as well.

Just like the Indian manufacturers have been adapting and learning from their foreign partners and subsidiaries, SAIC did the same and is one of the largest and oldest Chinese Auto manufacturers with some of these JVs now been there for many many decades, which would have meant they all contributed to each other's success and adapted to the local markets wherever necessary.

Heck, the petrol turbo in Hector has its roots to Suzuki, GM & Daewoo and we all know the roots of the diesel. We also know the contributors and shareholders of Baojun (SAIC-GM-Wuling) which again had its fair share of contributors over the years. So how would you draw the lineage of this vehicle exactly then? And why would you be bothered by that? We all know the largest technical contributor in Baojun will have to be GM! So the heart in petrol is Japanese, in diesel is Italian and rest is GM and SAIC (which also drew a lot of inspiration from their JV with VW - as we can all draw many references of the VW brands (Audi) design in the Hector).

So the choice with SAIC is to chose a narrative which is best suited to the target market, and they chose MG (British) for India and UK, Wuling for Indonesia, Chevrolet for South America, etc. Nothing wrong in that!

I would consider it wrong if you are only buying on the premise of it being a british, as that would be as good a stamp as the all mighty himself and would leave no doubt or hesitation in the mind of the consumer to consider anything else before buying the car!

We are a forum of passionate autoheads (Petrol will soon be over ), let us not carry any prejudice with the badge or the country of make or origin. We are at a day and age, where companies are now talking platform sharing, technology partnerships, rebadging, etc. Till when we will be able to justify or carry such prejudices?

Let us discuss the product! That's what TeamBHP is here for. Peace!

[travelwriter]

Originally Posted by Holyghost

How is it different ...Chinese business for that matter?

The difference is that Chinese business model is built on a differentiated product offering based on markets (also called discriminatory). As a rule, they will sell sub-standard products.

In case of other brands, they have outsourced some parts of the operations / production to China for cost concerns while they still retain the final say on quality. This is because their brand name is associated with it.

As a live example, I urge you to look at the quality of Vivo, Oppo and compare it with Samsung and Apple. Also, look at quality of Haier and compare it with Godrej. It may help you understand.

Another example, some VW vehicles came out of Poland but still had the same German quality about them. We don't call VW a Polish product, do we?

You may call my views biased but they are based on real experiences; I have purchased and used Chinese products here and overseas and can say all the above with confidence.

Travelwriter

[Holyghost]

Originally Posted by travelwriter

The difference is that Chinese business model is built on a differentiated product offering based on markets (also called discriminatory). As a rule, they will sell sub-standard products.

As a live example, I urge you to look at the quality of Vivo, Oppo and compare it with Samsung and Apple. Also, look at quality of Haier and compare it with Godrej. It may help you understand.

You may call my views biased but they are based on real experiences; I have purchased and used Chinese products here and overseas and can say all the above with confidence.

Travelwriter

I do not have a Vivo or Oppo phone, But I do have a 6+ year old Xiaomi MI3 smart phone which is still my primary phone. I had been waiting for it to die for the past few years so that I could buy a new 4g phone, but the damn thing never stops working despite the numerous falls and dings. Prior to that, I had the Samsung galaxy, Samsung Windows phones, a lot of motorolas and Nokias since 2000. But none of them lasted more than 3 years with many lasting just an year. I haven't formatted this phone even once and it is only this year I am starting to see some slowness due to low free space.

And regarding Godrej vs Haier, please don't buy Godrej, their quality is worse than cheap chinese products. I had really bad experience with a Godrej washing machine and Air conditioner. At the same time my friend was fooled into buying a Haier washing machine by the salesman claiming it to be German product, but it turned out to be good purchase and is still working fine even after 10 years.

So there is no rule as such that the Chinese will only sell sub-standard products. Depending on the pricing, they do sell cheap to very good product. About the Hector, we do not know and will have to wait and see how it turns out. You just cannot rule it out because it is Chinese.

[jailbird_fynix]

A rather interesting picture. Of the two, who do you think is more British?

[coolkurt]

A simple question. If Tata can sell Jaguar Land Rover without advertising it's Indian origins then what's wrong with MG leaning on its British origins?

The notion that if something has Chinese origins, it implies sub standard products, is such a farce. China is well capable of producing great products.

The equipment kit that the Hector offers, none of our esteemed manufacturers even come close. Forget that. The safety kit. MG has probably the best safety kit in the segment. Even the media favourite Seltos barely offers half as much on that front.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by Holyghost

I do not have a Vivo or Oppo phone, But I do have a 6+ year old Xiaomi MI3 smart phone which is still my primary phone. I had been waiting for it to die for the past few years so that I could buy a new 4g phone, but the damn thing never stops working despite the numerous falls and dings.

Same thing with my MiPad I have - it's almost 4-5 years old, I think.

Originally Posted by Holyghost

At the same time my friend was fooled into buying a Haier washing machine by the salesman claiming it to be German product, but it turned out to be good purchase and is still working fine even after 10 years.

Same thing happened to me with a Haeir Fridge - the sales guy told me it's a new European product. The Fridge lasted through some rough usage (I once left the door open for a week of vacation when the fridge was 6 months old) - it ran fine till 7 years & then needed some repairs (1000 Rs) & then ran for 3 more years before I bought a new one.

[sharninder]

I don't think they're fooling anyone. In this globalised world, any conglomerate can own a business in any part of the world. The brand is MG and which is of British origins and they're pretty open about the fact that the engine is a fiat engine which is probably Italian or maybe part Japanese if you consider that Suzuki also had a role to play in its development, IIRC. Point is that the consumer needs to know and understand what they're buying and this notion that a Chinese manufactured product is sub par is archaic. If that were true, we literally would not have half the products we use today because like it or not, China is the factory of the world.

[BeingHuman]

The true success of MG in India would depend on how reasonably priced its own engineered products like MG3, MG ZS or the MG GS are going to be.Otherwise it might as well end up as a one trick pony.

[reppy]

It is a marketing problem. MG has been portrayed as a British heritage brand in all the ads and displays. I remember the beautiful display at the T3 Delhi Airport where they showed a vintage MG and described it's virtuous heritage - people were even taking selfies there.

So slapping a brand with that kind of legacy on a Baojun/Wuling car is the problem. Had they launched an original MG product (which doesn't exist now does it?) then launched the Hector as the volume churner, the perception wouldn't have existed and we would have been happily buying the Hector as a product coming out of the same heritage umbrella.

This is us, the google/informed generation ranting - the uninformed don't care really. They like the product.

[wheelguy]

From the MG's official press release:

About MG Motor India

Founded in the UK in 1924, Morris Garages vehicles were world famous for their sports cars, roadsters, and cabriolet series. MG vehicles were after by many celebrities, including the Prime Ministers and even the British Royal Family, for their styling elegance and spirited performance. The MG car club, setup in 1930 at Abingdon in the UK, has thousands of loyal fans, making it one of the world's largest clubs for a car brand. MG has evolved into a modern, futuristic and innovative brands over the last 95 years. MG Motor India has its car manufacturing plant at Halol in Gujarat.

Saying this and selling Baojun 530 as an MG car is not appropriate. What can be more appropriate after talking about MG's heritage is if they sell MGB or MG RV8 or a car derived from MGB as an MG car in India. There are people who think MG Hector as some British car having above said MG's legacy, if they are made to believe that, then it is surely manipulation & fooling people/buyers though even if it is legal.

This is like Tata talking about Range Rover Defender history and selling Safari Storme in JLR showrooms under Range Rover branding. Instead, Tata is taking design & engineering cues from JLR to give them in TML products. They even took a platform from JLR kitty, adapted it to introduce in TML products, selling the LR derived car under Tata branding but not with LR branding. But Tata is being ridiculed for flaunting the LR pedigree, while SAIC despite parading with its MG brand and selling Baojun 530 under MG brand is getting away without any ridicule or as much as Tata undergoes.

For this, someone said that Tata once sold Indica in British under Rover brand. No, fact is Tata didn't sell Indica with Rover brand, period. A British company/group called MG Rover imported Tata Indica into British, rebadged them as Rover CityRover and sold them(interestingly MG part of that group was later on acquired by SAIC while the Rover part of that group ended up in Tata hands!). It is more like Toyota selling Baleno under Toyota branding, it is like Premier importing cars from China and replacing the Zotye badges with Premier badges to sell them as Rio in India.

If ever Tata sells any of its cars under JLR branding, then Tata will definitely get loads of criticism/flak which will always be higher than compared to other companies under similar circumstances.

Tata is not just using the Rover badge for Rover cars but continuing the brand's legacy, whereas SAIC is just using the MG brand name without continuing the legacy, there is difference.

It can be clearly seen that SAIC is trying hard to make people believe that MG Hector is a British car which it is not, then it is a sure case of fooling the prospective buyers, though buyers believe/know it or not.

Note, these were my thoughts, no intentions to offend anyone.