[The King]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Then please explain why Gypsy did so well in India for 20+ years. Also, every WW-II Jeeps and the Willys Jeeps in the first 25 years all had petrol engines.

Gypsy did so well because their was no other alternative vehicle present at that time which was as reliable and fuss free to maintain. Mahindra till date haven't learn't the lesson. They have plonked an oversquare engine in Thar which becomes dead when climbing steep inclines.

You cannot compare Petrol engines of WW-II times with present day technology be it a gasoline/petrol or Diesel CRDE.

Even if you compare engines from present day the undersquare[larger stroke than bore] Diesel CRDE Turbocharged engine will always have better Low end Torque figures at idling RPM then any similar capacity Turbocharged Petrol Engine. . Having low end grunt is always at advantage when offroading is done.

Your Vitara is nice vehicle, But its no match to current generation Diesel SUVs with loads of Torque at lower Rpms.

I still remember your words on MDI 3200TC (XD3P or MDI Motor for Mahindra CL / CJ340)

[sumeethaldankar]

2021 for the Jimny, I hope Maruti has something else lined up for SUV lovers meanwhile else they will be handing over their market share to the likes of Kia/Hyundai etc. I guess we will all have to wait patiently for the 4 door version to launch but considering today's modern production tech shouldn't they be able to deliver a full finished product within 6 months. They are going to make us wait for more than a year for the Jimny while I was hoping it will be here by the Feb of next year .

[romeomidhun]

Source: https://m.indianautosblog.com/c-v-ra...-sense-p318417

"The three-door is a very niche segment in India. What is required for India is a five-door model. That means we have to do a new development, which would require time and cost. The possible volume against the required investment does not make sense for us."

I am not sure whether it is the 5-door Jimny that doesn't make sense or he himself.

[simeonovitch]

Originally Posted by romeomidhun

Source: https://m.indianautosblog.com/c-v-ra...-sense-p318417

"The three-door is a very niche segment in India. What is required for India is a five-door model. That means we have to do a new development, which would require time and cost. The possible volume against the required investment does not make sense for us."

I am not sure whether it is the 5-door Jimny that doesn't make sense or he himself.

The ratio of (investment cost):(estimated volumes) does not make sense.

[Aroy]

If they hope to sell to Armed Forces, then they have to have a 3 door soft top option, as that can be customised for both troop movement as well as recoiless gun carriage.

A narrow body is ideal for hills and dense jungle trails, so the Jimny will be augmenting and not competing with the wider diesel 4x4.

[Reinhard]

Well the honourable Mr. C. V. Raman has done it again it seems. Slammed the door shut firmly again. He says selling the Jimny as 3 door doesn't make sense in India as thats "niche" & R&D cost for a 5 door development doesn't make sense (this part I actually agree with). Looks like MSIL won't be launching it for us here afterall.

I don't think he enlightened anyone much when saying a 3-door Jimny is a niche car. The Jimny's segment itself is a niche one. So whats new Mr. Raman? And quite amusing to see that much smaller players are ready to invest in selling lifestyle / off road capable vehicles (M&M, Isuzu etc) & the largest company by market share says its not worth it.
Where were these thoughts of wisdom when duds like the Kizashi, A-Star, Celerio-D, Grand Vitara, Versa, Ignis were launched? Or all these failures resulted in the wisdom not to launch the Jimny here? What a bummer.

Link - Indian Autos Blog news article

[volkman10]

Originally Posted by romeomidhun

--

"The three-door is a very niche segment in India. What is required for India is a five-door model. That means we have to do a new development, which would require time and cost. The possible volume against the required investment does not make sense for us."
--

Originally Posted by Reinhard

Well the honourable Mr. C. V. Raman has done it again it seems. ---[/url]

I think we should ignore such reports as the same C V Raman had ruled out the Ertiga cross/MPV variant.

When asked by IndianAutosBlog as to the business case for an Ertiga Cross, Raman stopped at saying that the "segment is very small", and that existing products in the segment sell "very little" already.

Honda Cars India launched the Honda BR-V in May 2016, and though initial response was inline with company estimates, volumes have seen a steady downtrend.

In reality Jimny will arrive here but not earlier than 2021.



Link

[volkman10]

We have had this as....



And now this ..

[romeomidhun]

Originally Posted by volkman10

And now this ..

I am not sure whether Maruti is expecting everything on a platter. And are they expecting 10K sales for all the models they manufacture?

If manufacturers were afraid of the ROI, players like KIA, MG etc wouldn't have come here even at this troubled times. On what surety did they invest huge amount? Why can't Maruti, with such a huge footprint here, try some thing in that segment?

Unless you start your journey, you don't know what is there on your way.

[karan561]

To test the market Maruti should allot 500 Jimnys for India as a CBU. And with the no homologation required for 2000 cars /manufacturer /year it's not bad to test the demand of the car.
I'm sure many would be OK to have a higher priced, CBU , Made In Japan car

[romeomidhun]

Now, with the news about LR and Jeep coming up with Jimny rivals, Jimny will lose many of its exclusivity. Will that teach Suzuki some lesson, and start manufacturing a 3 or 5 door Jimny here to sustain its numbers? Even small markets like Pakistan and Philippines have this Jimny in their line up as an imported one.

[KiloAlpha]

Originally Posted by romeomidhun

Now, with the news about LR and Jeep coming up with Jimny rivals, Jimny will lose many of its exclusivity. Will that teach Suzuki some lesson, and start manufacturing a 3 or 5 door Jimny here to sustain its numbers? Even small markets like Pakistan and Philippines have this Jimny in their line up as an imported one.

Maruti might actually be waiting for the likes of JLR (Land Rover) and FCA (Jeep) to burn their fingers in this segment before introducing the Jimny.
Land Rover cannot price such a vehicle at anything below 20 lakhs, or it will lose its brand cachet in India.
Jeep - well, the less said the better. They are more involved in their new marriage (to PSA) than trying to introduce a new model for India. If they wanted to introduce a sub-4m simplistic 4X4, they could easily have pushed a Renegade variant. They haven't. So I have no hope of a stripped-down shrunken Wrangler at Jimny price coming to India.

One of the main selling points of the Jimny is its really low price. I would think that Maruti is waiting to see how high a price the market will tolerate before wading in. The price point and subsequent value proposition is the Jimny's exclusivity right now. Unlike any other manufacturer, I think Maruti lacks any appetite for risk, which is why the Jimny isn't coming.

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by KiloAlpha

I think Maruti lacks any appetite for risk, which is why the Jimny isn't coming.

You are spot on in each point. I have a doubt only about this last quoted line. I somehow don't see Jimny launch as a risk at all. Customers are lining up even for an SPresso. A tall upright car with high GC & cool looks is the need of the hour. A lot of nuclear family guys & gals would pick the Jimny for the immense practicality, standout looks & space for 2 adults & 2 kids. Don't even bother about the 4+1 door. Millennials and young couples would jump for this car.
And then - its a Maruti. Put the "S" badge on a pony and even that will also have a 3 month waiting period in India.

If Maruti feels Jimny won't sell - shareholders should be worried about investing. The head honchos aren't good at seeing whats right in the face.

[ds.raikkonen]

I think the Jimny will be a perfect UV1 segment vehicle. Its boxy, 'Defender form the front' and 'G wagon from the rear' stance makes it look very attractive. Also has good approach and departure angle spec for the segment, which when coupled with the AllGrip set up makes it really handy for mild off roading (which is what we do here).

The only issues in bringing it to the market might be the looming BS VI norms and its impact on power train options (currently has the 1.5 K15B engine). The Vitara Brezza might also get a petrol option, who knows it might in the form of Jimny

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

You are spot on in each point.

If Maruti feels Jimny won't sell - shareholders should be worried about investing. The head honchos aren't good at seeing whats right in the face.

Maruti has ZERO risk appetite. They will only work with SURE SHOT SELLERS.
This is the BANE of Modern Management - where gut instinct gives way to excel sheet driven predictability, predicted by second rate mediocre marketing and business managers who have no imagination at all, but who somehow come with qualifications from the allegedly top Business Schools. Give me a Manager with Passion and Imagination ANY DAY, rather than these baggage carrying blundering business school wallahs.

The need of the hour for Companies like Maruti and Mahindra and Tata etc is a SPLINTER GROUP or a WORKS DIVISION headed by a Person with Passion and Imagination and a certain level of Carte Blanche.

We need a Carroll Shelby in the Context of Ford vs Ferrari to fly in the face of the hide bound stick in the mud Corporate Bosses. We need the genius and the drive of a man like Alec Issigonis of Mini or a man like Maurice Wilks of Land Rover or a Ferdinand Porsche who gave the world the Beetle.

Closer home the only man who comes close is Sid Lal of Royal Enfield.

JIMNY is proven success worldwide wherever it has launched. It’s sales is OFF THE CHARTS. There is a Waiting Period! It is extremely popular in right hand drive markets like UK, Australia, South Africa etc. AND in left hand drive markets like mainland Europe and the Middle East!

Why cant these blokes at Maruti Suzuki see this and accept that a good number of Urban Indians, Young people and the Upper Middle classes have moved beyond that godforsaken “kitna deti hai” mentality?

Maruti is uniquely positioned with all its power and infrastructure and Jamba Juice, to make this vehicle in India. Sell as much as they can here. And Export the rest of them.

They are both blind as well as stupid if they cant see whats staring them in the face - as regards the huge opportunity with the Jimny.

But if they listen and DO bring it in, please GOD, dont let their filthy bean counters, prevail upon them to compromise on quality, features and trims. Let it come in the International Spec and be priced fairly. Trust the new age Indian. It will work!