[manim]

Here is the accessories price-list I received from my dealer today.

I will be buying only the body-cover, to keep my new beauty safe!

And is it worth Rs.8,300 for the basic-kit?
It comes with:
two set of mats (why two? is it placed one over the other?)
cushions
keychain 2 no.s
emergency-hammer
micro-fibre-cloth

I might need the front-parking-sensors at a later date. On youtube I found that this needs to have many parts on the front-dash and front-bumper to be removed. I am worried the dealer may spoil the original wiring and factory-fit-and-finish.

[manim]

The sales guy I interact with has created a WhatsApp group with 6 others like his Manager, etc, to keep me in the loop till my car is delivered.

Here is the first-message I sent to this group:


A brief introduction to myself:

I am a Honda customer for the past 22 years, from 1999 when I got the first-gen-City (at Chennai, there were no dealers in Madurai back then). I bought the Civic from your company in 2007.

All my services were done in your company TVS at Madurai from the start of your delearship in Honda cars.

My Civic which is now 14 years and 3 months old with 1,75,000+ kms is still in perfect condition. One reason is that I don't give my cars to drivers, I love my cars and will always drive it myself (also to your service-center).

I maintain meticulous records of my car, I have records saved of my Civic from the first day onwards till date, of the petrol, services, etc in paper and in digital form.

I had never considered any other brand other than Honda when I decided to buy a new car, for one reason: RELIABILITY. Hope I enjoy the same for the next 10 to 14 years I plan to own this new car.

What I want now is:
1) My new car should be a fresh-piece with the latest manufacturing date.
2) The odometer at delivery should be less than 60 kms as promised by Mr.****. (my Civic odometer was only at 10 kms when I took delivery in year 2007 in your company).

I expect a great experience from Sundaram-Honda Madurai in buying my new Honda-City.

Thanks!

[PaddleShifter]

Originally Posted by manim

And is it worth Rs.8,300 for the basic-kit?
It comes with:
two set of mats (why two? is it placed one over the other?)
cushions
keychain 2 no.s
emergency-hammer
micro-fibre-cloth
...

Avoid this kit if possible. They are charging more than double. Other than mats, you are not getting anything really useful. A person is generally over enthusiastic while buying a new car and dealerships tend to make full use of this.

1. Two mats: Two layers is a common practice. Here, the white, transparent mats are placed over a set of carpet mats. I prefer 7D mats from the market that cost around 3k.

2. Cushions: Either buy from dealership or get a custom pair outside. They are mainly ornamental only. Amazon has memory foam cushions by the way. e.g. Grin Health brand car cushions (neck rest, lumbar support etc).

Deal of the day: Grin Health SitRight Pro Lumbar Support Pillow Pure Memory Foam Backrest Cushion for Office Chair, Car For Back Pain Relief, Black https://www.amazon.in/dp/B07956Z5YX/...FKVS8M8SBNBG40

3. Keychains: Get the Team-BHP ones. I have got a set and they are of very good quality.
Many keychains available online or get individual keychain pair from dealer.

4. Emergency hammer: Get amazonbasics hammer cum seat belt cutter for 250/-.

Limited-time deal: AmazonBasics Emergency Seat Belt Cutter and Window Hammer https://www.amazon.in/dp/B073J92G1J/...HR9R33H5ZA404N

5. Micro fiber cloth: I am using two types of micro fiber cloth that I bought online.

Rs350/- 900GSM cloth (Set of 2)
https://dl.flipkart.com/s/zDulfbuuuN

Rs250/- 350GSM cloth (set of 4)
https://dl.flipkart.com/s/7vReb7NNNN

For the amount being charged by the dealer for basic kit, you should be getting mats + tyre inflator + car cover + small items such as microfibre cloth, hammer etc.

[AnnaRocks]

Originally Posted by manim

The sales guy I interact with has created a WhatsApp group with 6 others like his Manager, etc, to keep me in the loop till my car is delivered.

Thanks!

I am added into a similar group. There was a formal HI followed by an accessories brochure and a dealer ad that was shared. No other communication regarding transit or anything. I am actually wondering why that group is created . Perhaps it is a Honda initiative and the approach towards it varies from dealer to dealer.

Originally Posted by manim

Here is the accessories price-list I received from my dealer today.
And is it worth Rs.8,300 for the basic-kit?

I will be skipping this kit. Personally, I do not find value in it, as alternate to all the items in this kit(if you need it in the first place) are available at much lesser rates outside. The ones that need a specialist's care and interferes with the original wiring setup like the Spoiler LED or Logo Projection setup could be done at the dealer place itself IMO.

I also feel that if the car makers price their accessories a little tighter, they might perhaps bring in higher volume that will negate the impact of the lesser margins caused by pricing it lesser and will probably bring in more revenue. This is probably just a layman's thought - the company knows better.
Some of the non essential accessories in the list give you a "Hey I should try this one" itch. Then you look at the price next to it and that itch goes flying away.

[Latheesh]

Basic accessory kit is not worth. I took it for the 3D mat but fit and quality is not great. Better spend the whole money for getting proper 3D Kagu mat. Rest of the content in the kit can be purchased online for less than 1000 Rupees.

[src]

Originally Posted by manim

And is it worth Rs.8,300 for the basic-kit?
It comes with:
two set of mats (why two? is it placed one over the other?)
cushions
keychain 2 no.s
emergency-hammer
micro-fibre-cloth

This is not mandatory and you can opt out or choose the same value from the list.

Originally Posted by AnnaRocks

I will be skipping this kit. Personally, I do not find value in it, as alternate to all the items in this kit(if you need it in the first place) are available at much lesser rates outside. The ones that need a specialist's care and interferes with the original wiring setup like the Spoiler LED or Logo Projection setup could be done at the dealer place itself IMO.

Ashish,
Sharing my pricing list in case if it helps as I got all the accessories free.

[manim]

Originally Posted by PaddleShifter

Avoid this kit if possible. They are charging more than double

Originally Posted by AnnaRocks

I will be skipping this kit. Personally, I do not find value in it, as alternate to all the items in this kit(if you need it in the first place) are available at much lesser rates outside

Originally Posted by Latheesh

Basic accessory kit is not worth. I took it for the 3D mat but fit and quality is not great

Originally Posted by src

This is not mandatory and you can opt out or choose the same value from the list

Thanks everyone, I had similiar thoughts, the sum does not add up to Rs.8,300. So I'll skip this kit.

And thanks to TrackDay on his thread, his first post has excellent details with photos of this kit:
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-...ml#post4981127 (Athena | My 5th-Gen Honda City Review)

Originally Posted by AnnaRocks

I am added into a similar group. There was a formal HI followed by an accessories brochure and a dealer ad that was shared. No other communication regarding transit or anything. I am actually wondering why that group is created

So the objective of this group is for the dealer to make money by pushing unwanted junk. I'm not falling for their trap!

Originally Posted by Rudra28

Sharing my quick highway driving experience & FE...

Cruise control: Just knock the button and set to 100 or more and its amazing. I drove between 102 to 110 kmph in Cruise Mode

I too plan to do the same, go on some long 4-lane drives in cruise-control during the break-in period and not exceed the engine rpm's.

And I expect the FE to increase over time as the engine starts 'breaking-in'.

[sramanat]

I recently leased a Honda City VX CVT.

After 3 days and about 50 km of driving, I don't have a long list of likes and dislikes. I've tried to list them nevertheless and it is highly likely that dislikes become likes as I get used to things. I hope some of the early likes don't become dislikes over time.

Likes
1. Timeless 3 box design. I think after the first gen City, Honda went for a sporty/funky styling with sharp edges and sloping bonnet line etc. Things seem to have fallen back to the original design with proportional 3 boxes and classic sedan form factor.
2. Fuss free (or the expectation of one) experience - keys in pocket, hands on wheel drive.
3. Adequate CVT (for my driving style) and the paddle shifters offer ability to drop gears for quick moves if need be.
4. Premium, safe and functional cabin with things in place where you expect them to be.

The 3 box design.

Next to an 2-3 gens older City, for comparison

Thanks to available customization, a simple instrument cluster

Ample room at the rear...

Leg room behind my (about 180cm tall) driving position.

Dislikes
1. Ground clearance. Not the inability to go off-road in search of vantage points to shoot pictures of tigers. That I can live with. I had to take a circuitous route home from the dealer, consciously to avoid metro/cauvery water works. It may not be that bad, but I plan to avoid scraping the bottom for as long as I can. I have to cross a rather big hump and drive over broken tiles to park over slush to take my kids to tennis lessons. Fortunately, nothing untoward has happened yet.
2. As mentioned by others here, the rear camera is simply atrocious. Having driven cars without any sort of assists for reverse gear for 20 years, this is a big step-up for me. A cheap wireless baby monitor we had in my daughter's crib 10 years back had way better video quality.
3. The engine bay - I clearly remember the TD car (a ZX variant) having a nice "Earth Dreams" cover on the engine. The VX has all cylinders, tubes and valves exposed. Can V/VX owners in the forum confirm if that's the case?
4. Thin sheet metal. The doors feel thin, the bonnet wouldn't lock itself if dropped from about 7cm high.
5. The creep speed is inadequate. I'd want the car to creep at ~15 kph when in D and neither the brake nor the accelerator is pressed. (for comparison, the 2014 Ecosport I drive now ambles at 20kph in 2nd gear and no accelerator input). Is there a way to map this without voiding the warranty?
6. Inadequate rear field of view through the IRVM. Left ORVM is tilted at an odd angle and the oval contour is as big as the field of view.

Slush where I park

Reverse camera... Thanks to my 4 year old, 10K Moto phone, the feed looks better in photo than in person

The exposed guts in the engine bay

IRVM's FoV. The pillows from accessories kit don't help either

The left ORVM - tilted at an angle.

Others
1. We never had a need for sunroof but wanted one anyways - because it has become a shorthand for premiumness. In city traffic, it is literally unusable and you feel kind of vulnerable. I was in the right lane, opened the sunroof and the pedestrians on the median waiting to cross the road could easily spit into the car
2. The ICE - again, this is the first time I'm using a car with touch screen infotainment. I am so used to starting the car and the radio coming on instantly. Now I have to acknowledge the disclaimer before I could listen to the radio.
3. Horn - it doesn't feel loud enough when you're driving - could be a) the length of the engine bay and you hear it from afar b) the car is superbly insulated from the road noise or c) the horn indeed is weak sounding. I will be happy in any of these scenarios. The last one because I contribute less to the overall noise pollution level.
4. The eco mode is significantly sluggish, which is expected. But it only makes you want more driving modes.
5. The keyless entry/go will take time to get used to. My wife drove the car, stopped it on the road to go shopping. 5 minutes later, she realized that the key was in the car and she never locked it!
6. The automatic climate control does an adequate job of cooling. But when I try to move the blower position to both head and foot, the "auto" mode goes off. Is this how it is supposed to be - "my way or the highway" mode?

The sunroof. Great when you can look at the sky. Not so great when you see people towering above you.

The ICE. You have to acknowledge this before listening to radio.

Climate control. Auto mode will blow on your face. Not on your feet.

Good PU seats that are airbag compatible. Seem durable.

The buying process
I'm not a car person in the traditional team-bhp sense. I like cars and I pay good attention to them - not on account of the thrill of driving or the pleasure of owning, but on the account that it is the most expensive depreciating asset and the second most expensive asset (behind a home) that an average person would own. Besides, I worked for 10 years developing software for automakers.

I previously owned a 2006 Baleno and apart from scraping the bottom frequently, had no complaints with it. It had low miles on it for I was not in India for a good part of the last 15 years. In Sep 2019, when I started a new job, the employer allowed me to lease a car within a month. I tried getting a Seltos, but the long wait periods meant I couldn't get one. In Dec 2019 the Baleno blew a tire - ripping right in the middle and the cost of replacing 4 tires came to about half of the car's value, which I couldn't justify. Just then a friendly neighbour who collects cars offered a decent price for it and my in-law's Ecosport was with me as well (they were in their son's place abroad then). Without thinking twice, I handed the car over.
Despite the good natured in-laws letting me use their car, getting a new car remained my top priority. When my employer opened the leasing window again in Apr 2020, COVID struck and I couldn't get my hand on any car.

So, this April, the car leasing search began again in all earnestness. We bagain listing our requirements -

1. Reliable, fuss-free ownership, low running & maintenance cost.
2. Spacious and roomy enough for 2 adults and 2 kids.
3. Safe
4. Automatic
5. 14 lakh ex-showroom (imposed by my employer)
6. Should be in my hands by end of August (imposed by my employer)
7. I've had good experiences with both go-anywhere, haul-anything SUVs (Jeep Grand Cherokee) and corner carving ability of sedans (Baleno, Camry, Corolla) - but seeing where the market is headed, SUVs are preferable.

My ideal car would have been a Creta, Harrier or Compass but the strict budget in place by employer ruled them out. There has to be some wisdom that the tax accountants at my company and the GOI used to come up with that number. In retrospect, in the absence of such a number I would have had a tough time determining my ceiling.

We tried a lot of cars that fit the above criteria from May (end of lockdown in Bengaluru) and shortlisted a bunch. Little did we know that point 6 above would derail the said plans.
I've documented our search somewhat in this thread (What car for under 14 lakhs ex-showroom?).

Our first thought process was to stick to the lower end of the budget and get a good hatchback (Jazz or i20). If it becomes inadequate for longer road trips, rent a zoomcar or a chauffer driven innova.
The i20 felt cramped (may be because of the interior colors?). The Jazz was roomy enough and sort of served as our benchmark for the other cars.

It was decided that we would go north of Jazz only for a car that offered at least one of -
a) enhanced safety
b) SUV stance (read ground clearance)
c) carry 2 extra adults.

Consequently, the contenders were City, all of the sub-4m SUVs and XL6

Summary of the cars that we test drove -

XL6 - ticked most boxes in our criteria, was economical but my wife couldn't see herself driving a van.
Nexon - very nice car, but AMT was not in keeping with the price you pay. It was more than adequate for my driving style and my wife didn't have a problem either. It was when I mentioned that it was an AMT that she began having second thoughts. A ~13 lakh car should have a proper AT.
Urban Cruiser - again, a good overall package (Brezza's grill is too chromy for my tastes), but looks dated and doesn't offer features considered to be normal for this segment. Despite the SA's eagerness to sell it, I got the vibe that you are not welcome at Toyota unless you owned a fortuner or an innova. The day I visited the dealership (after calling) there was no car on display. There was a single urban cruiser that was due for delivery and no sales staff. I could have swiped a few stuff and walked away.
Ecosport - the one with us has a bumpy ride and my daughter doesn't appreciate it. The petrol AT variant has atrocious fuel efficiency and there was no point in buying one with my daughter feeling strongly against it. The delivery times promised (120 days) wasn't reassuring. Sometime after I had initiated the lease process for the City, the SA called to inform a silver one was available for immediate delivery. We wouldn't have pursued it even if we hadn't committed financially to the City.
Kia Sonet - the final TD. The car was a wonderful package, though the interior was too flashy and distracting to my tastes. The delivery times were atrocious. So we had to drop it.
XUV300 - again, an AMT and the dealer couldn't be bothered to follow up or offer a TD.

The Honda SA (Lohith @ Whitefield Honda, Bengaluru) was very helpful and patient and offered us multiple test drives of both the Jazz and the City. Jazz had all we could ask for, from the headlamps to the driver seat. Then it goes downhill - the rear seat doesn't have proper headrests, armrest or an A/C vent. I couldn't find anything online about changing the rear seat completely for a plushier one. On the 3rd TD of the City, my wife was able to negotiate narrow roads on our home-office commute and felt confident enough with the city.

Come to think of it, the final debate between City and Jazz had nothing to do with the cars themselves and everything to do about our future plans and prospects.
City is something that will offer a better ride right from day 1. Second car, if and when that happens would have to be a hatch.
Jazz is something that will allow us to keep our options open for the second car - new/used, sedan/SUV, ICE/EV, all sorts of budget etc.
When the second car is going to happen is moot. That settled it in City's favor.

Decision making aids
This might help people who are going through a similar buying decision where one has to fit a square peg into a round hole. That is, take inputs from family members with contrasting tastes and needs, or an external restriction in the form of timeline, budget etc. I think I did a decent job of remaining objective throughout...

After a lot of initial back and forth among the family, I decided to create a spreadsheet. Everyone was to assign different scores to the cars. I did a weighted average of the scores (40% each to me and my wife, 10% each to the kids) The end looked like this -

City and Jazz = 3.9/5
XL6 = 4.05/5

(A variant of this approach involved everyone being given fixed points that they could distribute to each of the contending cars.)

What these numbers hide is the utter polarization in the individual scores. (If 2 persons are rating, a 2.5 rating could mean a 5 and 0, or two 2.5s.)

With this approach failing to break the stalemate, I created another spreadsheet with objective parameters.

• Wallet impact 30%
• Reliability/Maintenance 10%
• Fuel Bills 5%
• Driveability 15%
  • City (maneuverability, u-turns, low speed behaviour) 7%
  • Highway (straight line, braking, 100-120 KPH) 5%
  • Hills 2%
  • Potholes (GC, cushy ride) 3%
• Rear comfort 15%
  • Space for 2 adults + 2 kids 5%
  • A/C Vents 5%
  • USB charging 1%
  • Cupholder, armrest etc. 2%
• Style (sunroof, LED, form factor) 5%
• Relevance/freshness 5%
• Safety (crash test, airbags) 15%

Cheapest car would score 5 on wallet impact and I'd dock half a point for every lakh of price increase.
The smallest car would score 5 for city driveability while SUVs would score 5 for potholes.
Cars with 5* crash test rating or 6 airbags would score 5 on safety
Binary things like rear A/C vents, armrest etc. would be 1 or 0.
You get the idea...

The scores looked like this -

Jazz - 3.65
XL6 - 3.92
City - 3.78
Urban Cruiser - 3.9

In hindsight, I think I should have started with the objective criteria first and then funneled the winners to the voting process.

Keen readers would note that the XL6 and Urban Cruiser scored better than the eventual winner in both spreadsheets. That's the problem with mediocrity - where XL6 would score 3 or 4 in all counts, the City would score a bunch of 2s and 5s. That is to say that with XL6 you get a good+ car that doesn't excel at anything, but with City you get an exceptional car on some counts and a crappy one on other counts.

Summary
I think my 9 year old son's reactions sum up this whole process better. A couple of days after the car had reached the dealer, we took a detour on the way to his tennis class. I asked him if he was excited to see our new car. He said "not as much if it were a Creta or Seltos". A month later (don't ask why, paperwork takes longer in COVID times I am told) when I brought home the car he was quite excited and began arguing with his sister about what to name the car.
Are there better cars in the market - absolutely yes.
Would I like to have one of those - may be.
Do I regret this car - absolutely no.
I am happy with the car - not like how most people here would be happy with a BMW, but like how an everyman would be happy after redoing his dated kitchen or bathroom at a reasonable price.

PS: Special thanks to
Leoshashi and his XL6 review (My first car: 2020 Maruti Suzuki XL6 Alpha MT Review).
TrackDay and his Athena (City) review (Athena | My 5th-Gen Honda City Review).
Chieftain and his Jazz review (Critical Initial Review : Honda Jazz). After deciding on the City, I was seeing Jazz everywhere on the roads. Chieftain reassured me during that early onset buyer's remorse phase.
GTO, one of the earliest to recommend the City in my scouting post. And this post (How a more expensive car can work out cheaper (if you hold onto it for longer)).
All the guys in the City official review thread (The 5th-gen Honda City in India. EDIT: Review on page 62). Especially Latheesh (was in the same boat around Kushaq's launch)

[bravo82in]

Originally Posted by AamodB

Hi Bravo82in, I've had the pleasure of (nearly) daily driving my ZX CVT and hopefully should be able to help with your queries.
.
.
.
In summary, the VX + OEM seat covers is 95% of the ZX's seats and is a matter of preference. On the headlamps however, I would recommend the ZX's LED units for both throw/ illumination and the upgrade in the looks department. I would recommend against an upgrade as I personally find the headlights quite a critical component best left untouched after factory. Hope this helps!

Thank you for the golden words my dear. Really appreciate your feed back.
I have very little options left. No desi manufacturers' for lack of niggle free experience. No Koreans' for safety rating and expensive to maintain beyond a point. Yet to find a happy Skoda/VW owner in my circle, with respect to maintenance and workshop experience. Their freshly baked products are no more niggle free. I am left only with Japanese. Toyota has nothing to offer that's worth considering. Suzuki has a dated line up in the segment. Same for (American) Ford. Kicks will be too much of an experiment, for someone who wants to own a car to travel from point A to B within the city, safely and comfortably. The only option worth waiting for is the MG Astor. I know a few happy Hector customers, though the Chinese are no match to Koreans and Japanese wrt reliability. Still I will be like my wife to TD them all; When girl go shopping, logic (as T-BHPian) goes for a six . Never know what might click her liking.

If it is city it is going to be ZX. LED headlights and leather seats are enough reasons to go for it.

[AravBS]

A 5th Gen Honda City owner has posted this in the owner's group (facebook).

*********************
Honda city 5th gen VMT.
IRVM started to vibrate while driving. I stopped to take a look and it came out in my hands.
*********************
See attached pictures.

This is uncommon. Has Honda resorted to this level of cost cutting ?

[Chugh_H]

Originally Posted by sramanat

Climate control. Auto mode will blow on your face. Not on your feet.

Have you tried turning on the heater? I think my car moves the air flow to my feet when heating the cabin, and towards the face when chilling. Never really paid attention though, but I guess makes sense if it works that way.

[bravo82in]

Originally Posted by AravBS

This is uncommon. Has Honda resorted to this level of cost cutting ?

This usually happens when one attempts to take the IRVM out the wrong way. Has happened with one of our Jazz owners in this forum. From pic no 2 it appears that the IRVM came out along with a chunk of glass/ adhesive, likely due to manhandling.
If I am not wrong, it’s the same IRVM in the entire Honda line up.
Let’s not blame Honda, till this is reported by other owners, including Jazz and Amaze

[NotanF1driver]

Originally Posted by sramanat

I recently leased a Honda City VX CVT.
Good PU seats that are airbag compatible. Seem durable.

Great write up. We have booked the same variant and waiting for delivery. Hope to get it in the next 2 week's time (this is for my father who is a senior citizen). Were the seat covers added from Honda's accessories list (VX comes with fabric seats, doesn't it)? How much did you pay for them, if it was an accessory.

Our old Fiesta 1.4 TDCi had fabric seats and it served us well for >7 years. Our current car (Vento) has leatherette seats which makes your back sweat. So, my father is of the opinion - let the OEM seats become bad, then will think of accessory seat covers

Originally Posted by manim

I might need the front-parking-sensors at a later date.

I (my father) too have booked a Honda City VX CVT. He is a senior citizen and front parking sensors can be of great help while he drives (even me). Front parking sensors seem to be there in the official accessories list. Is this a beep only type sensor, or is there a display unit to it, or does it get displayed in the central console with the other sensors? I just don't want a sensor display to be sitting in the dashboard.

[sramanat]

Originally Posted by NotanF1driver

Great write up. We have booked the same variant and waiting for delivery. Hope to get it in the next 2 week's time (this is for my father who is a senior citizen). Were the seat covers added from Honda's accessories list (VX comes with fabric seats, doesn't it)? How much did you pay for them, if it was an accessory.

It costs 10400. I was worried that the beige fabric will be a dust magnet - spills (hand sanitizer gets spilled like crazy these days) and mud. They seem premium and durable and they did a decent job of putting it on. I didn't want to go for aftermarket fitting because I wasn't sure they'd be compatible with the airbags.

[sramanat]

Originally Posted by Chugh_H

Have you tried turning on the heater? I think my car moves the air flow to my feet when heating the cabin, and towards the face when chilling. Never really paid attention though, but I guess makes sense if it works that way.

I am sure that would work and could very well be industry standard. In my previous ride - a 2014 Ecosport - I never paid attention to it, so I can't compare now. Since this one has a fairly big display for the AC controls, I am noticing it. I would have preferred the Auto mode to adjust just the fan speed and leave the rest of the settings as is.