Team-BHP > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 2nd July 2020, 23:28   #586
Senior - BHPian
 
landcruiser123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: SJC - BLR
Posts: 1,874
Thanked: 3,178 Times
Default re: Scoop! 5th-gen Honda City spotted testing in India EDIT: Launched at Rs. 10.9 lakhs!

Looking at all the pictures and first hand reports, Honda clearly wants to close the gap with the Civic. I guess HCIL is interested in making more money per car than sell large numbers. (which MSIL will conveniently take with the lower priced Ciaz)

Request to other members: Unless it is an technical preview or something exciting, can we please refrain from sharing other run of the mill YouTube reviews on TBHP? I'm sure all interested members & readers can view them individually/have already seem them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by for_cars1 View Post
There will always be a buyer base for competent sedans. The sheer comfort, driving pleasure and fatigue free long distance travel offered by a sedan is way way superior to any SUV/MUV/Crossover vehicle in the market irrespective of its price band. There is simply no comparision.
Just like there is still a market for CDs or fountain pens, but very people use them.

Creta/Seltos are just too good. They offer:
1. Better GC
2. More cargo versatility
3. Better ingress/egress
4. Higher social status

These crossovers/SUVs ride very well and are have decent rough road capability.
landcruiser123 is online now   (1) Thanks
Old 2nd July 2020, 23:55   #587
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 814
Thanked: 1,268 Times
Default re: Scoop! 5th-gen Honda City spotted testing in India EDIT: Launched at Rs. 10.9 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by landcruiser123 View Post
...

Creta/Seltos are just too good. They offer:
1. Better GC
2. More cargo versatility
3. Better ingress/egress
4. Higher social status

These crossovers/SUVs ride very well and are have decent rough road capability.
All the points above may be valid, however the rear leg space of the Creta is cramped or gives you a B-segment hatchback feel. With two tall passengers sitting back to back, the rear passenger's knee touches/sinks into the back of the front seat. I've found it relatively uncomfortable. The Creta's rear seating is no match to the acres of rear seating space and comfort of the City.

End of the day, crossovers/SUVs are more practical vehicles no doubt with all the positives that you mentioned makes them appealing and dominate sales, but they simply can't match the comfort offered by a sedan.
That low slung relaxed fatigue free position in a sedan with relatively very less body roll is by the very nature of its design which a high slung SUV/crossover with its upright seating simply cannot match. A crossover/SUV gives you that sitting in a bus/van feel with relatively higher body roll. Definitely sedans are in a different league when it comes to true comfort.

Last edited by for_cars1 : 3rd July 2020 at 00:13.
for_cars1 is offline   (4) Thanks
Old 3rd July 2020, 07:08   #588
Senior - BHPian
 
motorworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,447
Thanked: 2,300 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by for_cars1 View Post
All the points above may be valid, however the rear leg space of the Creta is cramped or gives you a B-segment hatchback feel. With two tall passengers sitting back to back, the rear passenger's knee touches/sinks into the back of the front seat. I've found it relatively uncomfortable. The Creta's rear seating is no match to the acres of rear seating space and comfort of the City.

End of the day, crossovers/SUVs are more practical vehicles no doubt with all the positives that you mentioned makes them appealing and dominate sales, but they simply can't match the comfort offered by a sedan.
That low slung relaxed fatigue free position in a sedan with relatively very less body roll is by the very nature of its design which a high slung SUV/crossover with its upright seating simply cannot match. A crossover/SUV gives you that sitting in a bus/van feel with relatively higher body roll. Definitely sedans are in a different league when it comes to true comfort.

I think your comment on the Creta rear space is a bit exaggerated. The wheelbase of the older 2015-2019 Creta was around 2590mm and the 2020 Creta has a wheelbase of 2610mm, and the new 2020 City is at 2590mm.

So even if the new City has thinner front seats etc, the rear space between the Creta and the City cannot be that different in real life. Sure, the City has always been more comfortable at the rear, and the new one would have taken that up by a notch, no doubt.
In fact the general reviews state that the 2020 Creta is much more comfortable than the older one. I have the older Gen Creta and an Elite i20, so I really know the difference in rear space between a B segment Hatchback and a Creta.
motorworks is online now   (4) Thanks
Old 3rd July 2020, 08:05   #589
BHPian
 
itsashishsharma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 832
Thanked: 847 Times
Default

Guys it's not about sedan vs crossover. Everybody knows these crossovers have their advantages that the sedans can't match and yes there is still a market for sedans, all these Cretas and Seltos aren't going to go any more off the tarmac than your everyday hatchback like a Swift.
It is only about one thing, the USP. The City used to have excellent build quality that we can still see on a 15-20 years old example and sporty handling with the best engine. With 4th gen City, this USP was lost. With the 5th gen, they could have given it back but they haven't. So why would I suggest it over a Verna or a cheaper Ciaz, I don't know. Had the City got it's USP back, it would have made a world of a difference.
May be 90% of the cars in urban jungles don't get their rear seat space used, why is that acres of space a + then? It is a plus, but only to people who want to be chauffeur driven. Anyhow average Indian family of 5 can sit comfortably in a Verna even. Also, acres of legroom and restricted headroom (low roofline for rear passengers) isn't any good for tall people.
itsashishsharma is offline   (8) Thanks
Old 3rd July 2020, 10:21   #590
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Gurugram
Posts: 6
Thanked: 6 Times
Default re: Scoop! 5th-gen Honda City spotted testing in India EDIT: Launched at Rs. 10.9 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
City always had a 5-star safety rating in ASEAN NCAP, all the way from 3rd generation onwards.

3rd generation - 5 stars.
4th generation - 4 stars (2 airbags) & 5 stars (6 airbags, ESC and SBR)

None of these were Indian made or Indian spec cars though! Even the Ciaz has a 4-star rating in ASEAN NCAP.
I forgot about variant part, since most of the owners I know, have 2 Airbag variants, so the 4 Star only rating sticked in my mind.
Thank you for correction.
Rakmo is offline  
Old 3rd July 2020, 11:26   #591
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 814
Thanked: 1,268 Times
Default re: Scoop! 5th-gen Honda City spotted testing in India EDIT: Launched at Rs. 10.9 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by motorworks View Post
I think your comment on the Creta rear space is a bit exaggerated. The wheelbase of the older 2015-2019 Creta was around 2590mm and the 2020 Creta has a wheelbase of 2610mm, and the new 2020 City is at 2590mm.
I'm just talking about my personal experience and not hear-say. Sure the Creta may be having the same wheel base (not talking about the 2020 Creta), but somehow that does not translate to a large enough leg room for rear passengers (in relative terms), this I know for sure as an end user. Space management is pretty good in a City. It has both a large rear space and a big 510 litre boot (4th Gen).

Everything has their plus and minus points. We are all just end customers of these vehicles and we have to keep changing vehicles periodically for sure as they get old. It is good to be just neutral and honestly state personal preferences (it may differ from individual to individual). If any of these vehicles have more plus points all the better for us as users.

I just called out that the rear leg room of a Creta is smaller than the City and the City's rear space a more comfortable place to be in (in relative terms) from my personal experience.

Mod Note - You can very well convey what ever you want to without getting personal / offensive.

Last edited by Sheel : 3rd July 2020 at 18:19. Reason: Mod note attached.
for_cars1 is offline   (5) Thanks
Old 3rd July 2020, 16:04   #592
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 126
Thanked: 298 Times
Default re: Scoop! 5th-gen Honda City spotted testing in India EDIT: Launched at Rs. 10.9 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by for_cars1 View Post
I'm just talking about my personal experience and not hear-say. Sure the Creta may be having the same wheel base (not talking about the 2020 Creta), but somehow that does not translate to a large enough leg room for rear passengers (in relative terms), this I know for sure as an end user. Space management is pretty good in a City. It has both a large rear space and a big 510 litre boot (4th Gen).
Even the numbers capture by various websites actually say that the legroom in Honda city is much higher than the Creta and here I have the numbers of old CIty vs Creta and new City is actually having more space so the difference will be even higher.

The min/max legroom for Creta and old city are

600/830 mm for Creta vs 790/1000 mm for City

The comparision shows that the difference in space is as high as 15-19 cm which is huge in the legroom context.

source of below information are the below 2 links

https://www.carwale.com/hyundai-cars...ions-compared/

https://www.outlookindia.com/website...e-space/331349
rkv_hunter is offline   (3) Thanks
Old 3rd July 2020, 17:54   #593
BHPian
 
Turbokick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Bhubaneswar
Posts: 560
Thanked: 532 Times
Default re: Scoop! 5th-gen Honda City spotted testing in India EDIT: Launched at Rs. 10.9 lakhs!

New City has reached the stockyard.

Few pointers
1. Car looks neat in flesh. Tyres bit small for its size but I would say it looks more elegant than the 4th gen city which had a sportier but busier look.

2. Build quality has improved. Shut lines and finish is good. Lack of insulation/cover in the wheel well look bad.

3. Interior is a big step up. Quality, design and ambience have definitely improved. Usage of materials of different textures help. Much needed premium feel is there.

4. Head room at the rear seat is just about ok. Under thigh support is again average. That said space and comfort will be best in class for sure.

5. New speedo console look excellent.

6. Typical Japanese lightness is still there. Though the car feels better screwed.

Scoop! 5th-gen Honda City spotted testing in India EDIT: Launched at Rs. 10.9 lakhs!-img20200703152905.jpg

Scoop! 5th-gen Honda City spotted testing in India EDIT: Launched at Rs. 10.9 lakhs!-img20200703153133.jpg

Scoop! 5th-gen Honda City spotted testing in India EDIT: Launched at Rs. 10.9 lakhs!-img20200703153217.jpg

Scoop! 5th-gen Honda City spotted testing in India EDIT: Launched at Rs. 10.9 lakhs!-img20200703153618.jpg

Scoop! 5th-gen Honda City spotted testing in India EDIT: Launched at Rs. 10.9 lakhs!-img20200703154200.jpg

Scoop! 5th-gen Honda City spotted testing in India EDIT: Launched at Rs. 10.9 lakhs!-img20200703154252.jpg

Scoop! 5th-gen Honda City spotted testing in India EDIT: Launched at Rs. 10.9 lakhs!-img20200703154209.jpg

Last edited by aah78 : 11th July 2020 at 02:42. Reason: Pictures inserted in-line.
Turbokick is offline   (14) Thanks
Old 3rd July 2020, 18:05   #594
Senior - BHPian
 
motorworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,447
Thanked: 2,300 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by for_cars1 View Post
I'm just talking about my personal experience and not hear-say. Sure the Creta may be having the same wheel base (not talking about the 2020 Creta), but somehow that does not translate to a large enough leg room for rear passengers (in relative terms), this I know for sure as an end user. Space management is pretty good in a City. It has both a large rear space and a big 510 litre boot (4th Gen).

Everything has their plus and minus points. We are all just end customers of these vehicles and we have to keep changing vehicles periodically for sure as they get old. It is good to be just neutral and honestly state personal preferences (it may differ from individual to individual). If any of these vehicles have more plus points all the better for us as users.

I just called out that the rear leg room of a Creta is smaller than the City and the City's rear space a more comfortable place to be in (in relative terms) from my personal experience.

My statement was a reaction to your post. You had mentioned that the City has acres of space and the Creta was cramped and compared it to a B segment hatchback. So that seemed surely exaggerated since both cars are quite similar in size and wheel base. And I did not say the Creta was better than the City in any aspect.

Sure, the City does have more space and also better management of room on offer. And I did mention that the City has a very comfortable rear seat. Whatever cars I have owned or own now, I am always aware of their limitations.

Mod Note - You can very well convey what ever you want to without getting personal / offensive.

Last edited by Sheel : 3rd July 2020 at 18:23. Reason: Mod note attached.
motorworks is online now   (2) Thanks
Old 4th July 2020, 05:38   #595
Senior - BHPian
 
landcruiser123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: SJC - BLR
Posts: 1,874
Thanked: 3,178 Times
Default re: Scoop! 5th-gen Honda City spotted testing in India EDIT: Launched at Rs. 10.9 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by for_cars1 View Post
The Creta's rear seating is no match to the acres of rear seating space and comfort of the City.

End of the day, crossovers/SUVs are more practical vehicles no doubt with all the positives that you mentioned makes them appealing and dominate sales, but they simply can't match the comfort offered by a sedan.
Sure, but sales numbers drive decisions on the HQ. There are small groups of people who like sedans like the City/Verna/Ciaz, but the vast majority love the SUVs Creta/Seltos. I doubt the HQs are keen on selling sedans anymore considering the big profits from SUVs.

The only way to make sedans cool is to introduce hybrids with a long tank range. Else, we may only see Honda City, Maruti Ciaz, and Toyota's equivalent of Ciaz in the coming years.
landcruiser123 is online now   (1) Thanks
Old 4th July 2020, 07:51   #596
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 814
Thanked: 1,268 Times
Default re: Scoop! 5th-gen Honda City spotted testing in India EDIT: Launched at Rs. 10.9 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkv_hunter View Post
.....

The min/max legroom for Creta and old city are

600/830 mm for Creta vs 790/1000 mm for City

The comparision shows that the difference in space is as high as 15-19 cm which is huge in the legroom context.

....
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorworks View Post
...You had mentioned that the City has acres of space and the Creta was cramped and compared it to a B segment hatchback...

...
15-19cm (150-190mm) more leg space in the City is humongous and sure does translate to acres in a vehicle context where even a few mm here and there makes a difference. The front seats are far away.

I felt Creta was cramped only because my knee was sinking into the front seat with a passenger in front, similar to a B segment hatch experience. Creta is a good vehicle no doubt and Hyundai does charge a lot for it.

These manufacturers cannot take us for a ride, they have give better value for their products after paying so much, for example, a much better rear seat experience in the Creta for instance.
There are so many similar examples, what is Honda doing with a 120 bhp diesel engine in a 40 lakh CRV for instance? Stop treating Indian customers like crap. Treat us on par with your latest international offerings at least. Give us more bang for the buck.

Last edited by for_cars1 : 4th July 2020 at 08:07.
for_cars1 is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 4th July 2020, 08:11   #597
BHPian
 
vipul_singh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: BLR / Lucknow
Posts: 527
Thanked: 555 Times
Default re: Scoop! 5th-gen Honda City spotted testing in India EDIT: Launched at Rs. 10.9 lakhs!

Even my GK Jazz has more legroom than the old Creta. I doubt the situation is much different now (with the new Creta launched). The Creta vs City discussion will boil down to the priority accorded to ground clearance and convenience features. If one is comfortable with the lower GC and fewer 'wow' features on the City, one gains:
- better connected feel to the road due to lower ride height
- more combined legroom
- bigger boot
- (I suspect) better real world fuel economy

Cabin width on the Creta may be better, however. Comparison reviews should bring this factor out.

On the point about more connected feel due to lower ride height, I understood the advantage after buying the 2019 Civic. Roly poly CUVs cannot (IMO) deliver the feel of a comparable lower slung car on good roads. Of course, the situation is the opposite on bad roads.

Last edited by vipul_singh : 4th July 2020 at 08:21.
vipul_singh is offline  
Old 4th July 2020, 09:59   #598
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 95
Thanked: 91 Times
Default re: Scoop! 5th-gen Honda City spotted testing in India EDIT: Launched at Rs. 10.9 lakhs!

The car looks very good except for the ICE. IMO, the new Creta's ICE is the best looking. I think this is a very crucial launch for both Honda and its dealers. I am not sure this car will do well regardless of how good it is. ( Due to the segment its in and the consumer preference. Last month Ciaz did 500 odd and Verna did 1000 odd. ( It includes demo/display cars). Creta + Seltos around 15k. That says it all. Even the pre covid number was around 3k. Where will the volume come from?

Last edited by adithya.kp : 4th July 2020 at 10:03.
adithya.kp is offline  
Old 4th July 2020, 10:14   #599
BHPian
 
self_driven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Haryana
Posts: 571
Thanked: 1,266 Times
Default re: Scoop! 5th-gen Honda City spotted testing in India EDIT: Launched at Rs. 10.9 lakhs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbokick View Post
New City has reached the stockyard
Boy oh boy! It looks gorgeous in white. Thanks for sharing the pictures.

This has to be the cleanest iteration of Honda's new design language. The Amaze is brutally chopped up both at the front & rear (sub 4m rule to blame) while the Civic looks too large and ungainly in person.

As a product, City has a lot going for it. Pricing plays a key role.

Current City falls in the 10-15 lakhs bracket while the base Civic costs around 18 lakhs. Now that Honda has decided to sell old & new side-by-side, I am expecting the price range to hover around 11-16 lakhs.

Anything higher than that and the Verna (at 9.5-14 lakhs, excluding diesel AT) will start making more sense. Verna is now more competent than ever. For a layman, the only areas where the City shines is rear seat space and brand name which I don't think is worth an additional 2 lakhs.

(approx. ex-showroom prices)

Last edited by self_driven : 4th July 2020 at 10:15.
self_driven is offline   (3) Thanks
Old 4th July 2020, 11:39   #600
BHPian
 
RD150's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Pune
Posts: 41
Thanked: 49 Times
Default re: Scoop! 5th-gen Honda City spotted testing in India EDIT: Launched at Rs. 10.9 lakhs!

So, its going to be a strong battle between the city and verna. No doubt verna looks more aggressive and has longer feature list, but city wins hands down in practicality. I just love how spacious the rear seats are, and the engine too is not bad at all.The interiors though simple look elegant and classy. City is a better choice even if Honda demands 1 lakh more than verna.
RD150 is offline  
Reply

Most Viewed
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Copyright 2000 - 2020, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks