[ValuableRecluse]

Originally Posted by aasheeshmehta

"Hello Nitin, do not worry! The All-New Gurkha will be Xtremely capable! Do test our drive at launch, we're sure it won't disappoint."


If that "Xtremely" is a hint for a 2.2L. As I said before, GAME OVER.

We have seen the Gurkha is xtremely capable Offroad.
Obviously not considering the Wrangler Rubicon here. 😀

It may be able to cruise at 100-120, but it’s important to reach that speed quickly or else will never be able to overtake a bus on a ghat road safely before the next corner. That’s why they need to put that 2.2 in!

Originally Posted by Sandman689

2 key winning components would be missed severely:

• Rigid front axle
• 2.2L Mercedes engine

A Rigid front axle is IMO KEY to being a blue blooded offroader. I don't know whom to blame, the market or Force Motors for switching to an IFS front axle.

Bringing the FM 2.2L CR engine was right step from the 2.6. I am sure some folks aren't surprised to see Force going backwards.


Hadn't it been for my recent 4X4, a 5 door Force Gurkha with the 2.2L engine and rigid front axles with diff locks would have been a no brainer purchase for me.

I stand corrected. The Xtreme had a solid axle at both ends. I even test drove it and was amazed by its capability. Old age catching up?

Unfortunately this is the closest we’re going to get to an Indian Ineos.

[Parm]

Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl

The biggest reason for most people preferring a solid axle is that no matter what loads or articulation, your ground clearance remains the same.

With IFS, on side cambers and heavy load, your ground clearance would decrease.

IFS is great for broken roads. Not really for hard core offroading.

Hi Tejas,

I totally agree with you!

The below mentioned 4WD vehicles have 1 thing in common, live axles:
Toyota LC70
Jeep
Defender 90/110 (last gen)
G Wagen (Last gen)
Patrol Y61
Jimny
Thar Roxor (USA market)

There is a solid good reason as to why these above mentioned vehicles are manufactured in their current avatars of live axles.

If i have missed out any 4WD vehicle with live axles, please feel free to add them.

[aasheeshmehta]

Independent front suspensions would be much better in terms of comfort in comparison to solid one. The solid one has sure has great advantage extreme off-road situations like boulder crawling or something similar. And i don't think a lot of people would be in that situation a lot times. I think IFS would perform better the kind of off-roading we do here in India.

Only thing i think would be better if they bring out that 2.2l engine producing 320NM torque. That spec would be unchallenged .

[Ragul]

Originally Posted by aasheeshmehta

Independent front suspensions would be much better in terms of comfort in comparison to solid one. The solid one has sure has great advantage extreme off-road situations like boulder crawling or something similar. And i don't think a lot of people would be in that situation a lot times. I think IFS would perform better the kind of off-roading we do here in India.

Only thing i think would be better if they bring out that 2.2l engine producing 320NM torque. That spec would be unchallenged .

Right! IFS (and perhaps IRS?) + 2.2ltr. It remains to be seen if the Force marketing team sees flexing off-road muscle across the range as their only and best approach or whether they get smarter and deliver different models for different applications (read consumer needs).

A large section of the population merely want a Tourer for those hilly regions with washed-out roads during monsoons where the 4x4 and high GC gives some added utility and confidence. To me - A good progression of models in their range would be

2.2ltr + rear MLD + IFS (Tourer Range)
2.2ltr + Front & Rear Locker + Sold Axle (Off-Road Range)

Not having mechanical lockers on a model can present Force with the chance to offer a product at an even more tempting price point! The automatic-MLD and 4x4 should take care of majority of those slush moments encountered in Himalayan regions. The hard-core off-roaders can buy the Extreme version at a price-point higher by a few lacs.

But historically the Force marketing team has only shown an All-AND-Nothing approach: The 2.2ltr Extreme Off-Road Muscle car with solid axles and twin-lockers, and the 2.4 ltr weak underpowered car with twin-lockers and IFS. I wish the Force team would consider end-user application and aspirations in designing the models/range of their cars. It is contemptuously funny to see a muscle-bound guy in tight undersized T-Shirt walking around with a swagger and demeanor like one is looking out for trouble where every other folk are cool laid-back chilled-out folks looking for a good time. The Force product range is something like that.

The new 3-Door model with stock factory fitted snorkel and roof carrier is absolutely the next car I want. But a Tourer model with IFS/IRS and 2.2ltr with rear MLD only. I don't off-road as a hobby on weekends but I simply cannot settle for a car that is not 4x4 from the touring angle - its been my mindset from the start.

But that said - I can't seem to get tired of the itch to keep my Gypsy for hobby modification projects, and the chance to drive topless in hilly areas of Chikmagalur and like - its the only other thing that will keep me off from selling it immediately for the Gurkha. I can live with my Gypsy as the only car for a while longer while I wait for that model that meets my Tourer expectations - hope it comes around eventually, else I will stick to keeping my Gypsy for another good 7 years. I am not going to be paying extra for mechanical lockers that I never anticipate to use or settle for a bad ride quality with solid axles once again!

But hey I really want a 4x4 tourer with nice good AC and climate control that my Gypsy cannot provide!

PS: Is there a reason a 4x4 Tourer with both IFS and IRS would not be a good idea?

[aasheeshmehta]

The rumored engine coming in the new gurkha is the one they are giving in traveller 26. If that is true then it would be a very capable engine. I am putting the specs below for comparison.


Force engine:

Displacement 2596 cc
Max Output 85kW (115hp) @ 2950 rpm
Max Torque 350Nm @ 1400 - 2200 rpm

Mahindra Thar:

Displacement 2184 cc
Max Power 130bhp@3750rpm
Max Torque 300nm@1600-2800rpm


So the force engine reaches 115hp at lower rpm. One would have more useable power much quicker than the thar which is actually useful in broken roads and off-road situations. Though the thar would win in a drag race maybe on a highway.

The force engine gives much more torque that too at much lower rpm than the that. That changes everything.

On top of that gurkha is already coming with a led headlights, metal hard top, snorkel and much more accessories which are actually useful in a off-road/traveler lifestyle like rooftop carrier, windsreen grill etc. Have you guys seen what Mahindra offers as accessories ?

[Venkatesh]

Next-gen Force Gurkha new teaser, it is expected to hit the roads next quarter.





At the launch it is expected to be introduced with the 3 door variant to be followed by the 5 door variant soon after.

Link

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by aasheeshmehta

The rumored engine coming in the new gurkha is the one they are giving in traveller 26.

It is the same engine, but completely different state of tune. They are not offering the higher power in the Gurkha. Gurkha is 85bhp/240 NM Torque.

Originally Posted by aasheeshmehta

So the force engine reaches 115hp at lower rpm.

The Thar engine revs to 4500 rpm, the Force engine max rpm is 3500, so it will be like comparing the 3.0 DICOR engine and the 2.2 DICOR engine from Tata. The lower end torque is there but without a higher revving engine, the highway manners will be slouchish. The 2.6 in the Traveller is fine as it is essentially a load carrying/people mover. However the Gurkha is a life style vehicle that will cost nothing short of 17 lakhs on the road.

[aasheeshmehta]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

It is the same engine, but completely different state of tune. They are not offering the higher power in the Gurkha. Gurkha is 85bhp/240 NM Torque.

Is this confirmed anywhere ???

[Ragul]

Originally Posted by aasheeshmehta

Is this confirmed anywhere ???

It was always the case starting with the older Gurkha. Same engine with BS6 mods.

[aasheeshmehta]

Originally Posted by Ragul

It was always the case starting with the older Gurkha. Same engine with BS6 mods.

Yes that surely was the case with the older one but I really don't think it is the same in the newer one. Both of us can wait for their reveal to answer our questions. Even at the auto expo last year they had a spec sheet there in front of the display which had 90bhp written on it. But lets see what they bring out .

[Ragul]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

It is the same engine, but completely different state of tune. They are not offering the higher power in the Gurkha. Gurkha is 85bhp/240 NM Torque.

The Thar engine revs to 4500 rpm, the Force engine max rpm is 3500, so it will be like comparing the 3.0 DICOR engine and the 2.2 DICOR engine from Tata. The lower end torque is there but without a higher revving engine, the highway manners will be slouchish.

If the 2.2ltr engine is used across other product ranges perhaps we can hope for the same in a future Gurkha. Otherwise the development cost of upgrading the old 2.2ltr to BS6 may be too high for Force to expect RoI just from Gurkha sales. If only on the other hand the 2.4ltr had been junked and the entire product range standardised on the 2.2ltr in BS6 avatar…. Alas!

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by aasheeshmehta

Is this confirmed anywhere ???

Where did you get confirmation about the 116 bhp engine? Because you saw the Traveller Brochure? All the information since the Auto Expo points to a 85 to 90 bhp engine.

Originally Posted by Ragul

If the 2.2ltr engine is used across other product ranges perhaps we can hope for the same in a future Gurkha.

The BS6 Traveller is already out with the older 2.6 OM616. The 2.2 OM611 is dead as they don't want to invest in making it BS6 compliant. Also the 2.2 OM611 being a relatively more modern engine than the 2.6 will be more expensive to make. So, it is most likely a cost factor.

[aasheeshmehta]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

Where did you get confirmation about the 116 bhp engine? Because you saw the Traveller Brochure? All the information since the Auto Expo points to a 85 to 90 bhp engine.

I got that info from this very forum and rumors running around hence I never assured about anything. You very pretty sure about things so just asked where you coming from. And.... chill..

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by aasheeshmehta

You very pretty sure about things so just asked where you coming from. And.... chill..

They have not made a BS6 compliant version of the 2.2 yet, and BS6 traveller is already launched with the 2.6.

[Ragul]

I remember seeing the glass-of-water test on the dashboard of the 2.2ltr Gurkha Extreme where the ripples on the surface of the water were barely visible. The same cannot be said of the 2.4ltr engine which appears to be more rackety with higher NVH. I am not sure if Force will be able to engineer the same NVH with the BS6 variant of the 2.4ltr engine and that is yet another downside anticipated of the new 2020 model.

I don't recall the older reviews of the Gurkha and I also wonder if the 2.4ltr engine version is capable of extricating itself from seriously steep uphill slopes or deep slush with just low-end torque.