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Old 1st July 2021, 07:38   #166
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Default Re: Next-gen 2020 Force Gurkha spied

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Originally Posted by Ragul View Post
I also wonder if the 2.4ltr engine version is capable of extricating itself from seriously steep uphill slopes or deep slush with just low-end torque.
It is a 2.6 not 2.4. I have driven the 2.6 quite extensively in hilly terrain and the beauty of the engine is the that it starts to make very good torque from 1400 rpm. But the draw back is that there is absolutely no top end and the rpm is limited below 4000 rpm. Mostly likely because of emission/mileage limitations. Once you hit the flat roads, the vehicle struggles to maintain speeds of over 100 kmph. So, if you are a person who drives only in the 80 to 100 kmph range on the highways and don't mind taking a bit of time to overtake, it is not a bad choice.

The point that I was making is that today majority of customers have higher expectations when you spend close to 17 lakhs on the road on a life style vehicle. And current output of the 2.6 won't cut it in my opinion.
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Old 1st July 2021, 13:21   #167
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Default Re: Next-gen 2020 Force Gurkha spied

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I don't recall the older reviews of the Gurkha and I also wonder if the 2.4ltr engine version is capable of extricating itself from seriously steep uphill slopes or deep slush with just low-end torque.
Its a 2.6 ltr and not 2.4, the water ripple test works surprisingly well in the 2.6 too, will make a short video and share on that.
Slush, slopes or any terrain pose no challenge, and one will be able to get out of sticky situations.

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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
But the draw back is that there is absolutely no top end and the rpm is limited below 4000 rpm. Mostly likely because of emission/mileage limitations. So, if you are a person who drives only in the 80 to 100 kmph range on the highways and don't mind taking a bit of time to overtake, it is not a bad choice.

The point that I was making is that today majority of customers have higher expectations when you spend close to 17 lakhs on the road on a life style vehicle. And current output of the 2.6 won't cut it in my opinion.
You are right about the RPM but the top end speed is comfortably above 110, I had thought that the Gurkha would mostly max out at 85-90 and in my first drive I had in fact planned an overnight stay thinking I would never reach the destination fast enough - but it has pace and it really surprised me.

Beyond 120 it will struggle and progress is slow and it can hold those speeds too but there is no point anyways to push it at those speeds.
I have now completed 21k kms in 12months out of which around 15k have been on highways which included 5 runs of 1200+ kms non-stop (17-18hrs) and I travel with my family.

What I have heard from my sources is that the engine (2.6 BS6) will have a slight bump in power figures but no clarity on how much.

The interiors definitely need to be refurbished completely to make one feel at par with the amount of money spent.

With this sorted, there is very little desired from the Gurkha as a product, the service and dealership experience - well that's another story.
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Old 1st July 2021, 13:51   #168
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Default Re: Next-gen 2020 Force Gurkha spied

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So, if you are a person who drives only in the 80 to 100 kmph range on the highways and don't mind taking a bit of time to overtake, it is not a bad choice.

The point that I was making is that today majority of customers have higher expectations when you spend close to 17 lakhs on the road on a life style vehicle. And current output of the 2.6 won't cut it in my opinion.
Exactly why I am hesitant! My Gypsy maxes out at 115 on flat roads and manages 120 on slight inclines but the feeling of topping out the engine is something I don't enjoy at all.

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Originally Posted by Trojan View Post
Its a 2.6 ltr and not 2.4, the water ripple test works surprisingly well in the 2.6 too, will make a short video and share on that.
Slush, slopes or any terrain pose no challenge, and one will be able to get out of sticky situations.



You are right about the RPM but the top end speed is comfortably above 110, I had thought that the Gurkha would mostly max out at 85-90 and in my first drive.
...
Beyond 120 it will struggle and progress is slow and it can hold those speeds too but there is no point anyways to push it at those speeds.
...
What I have heard from my sources is that the engine (2.6 BS6) will have a slight bump in power figures but no clarity on how much.

The interiors definitely need to be refurbished completely to make one feel at par with the amount of money spent.

With this sorted, there is very little desired from the Gurkha as a product, the service and dealership experience - well that's another story.
I hope you are commenting on the 2.6ltr not 2.2ltr version.

On a tall boxy car I am not sure if touching 120 is going to be safe or if one would feel safely in a comfort zone at those speeds unlike the low profile aerodynamic cars that easily touch 140 on highways. But the feeling of having extra headroom and not maxing out and feeling the strain via subtle increase in NVH levels is what matters to me.

If the new BS6 2.6ltr has the smoothness and NVH to match the 2.2ltr that you say it has I will certainly consider it in the 2025 timeframe or earlier/whenever I move out of KA to the hotter parts of India.

I had almost convinced myself to buy the 2.2ltr last-minute before the expiry of BS4 registration, but I was not prepared to let go of my Gypsy and its modification possibilities when it is in such a good condition and my current WFH lifestyle does not require me to drive in hot weather conditions too much. And owning 2 4x4 cars when living in Bangalore with parking problems is a waste. Moreover I decided to wait hoping for the 2.2ltr in BS6 avatar and the new snazzy interiors with touch-screen liberating me from using my phone for navigation.

Last edited by Ragul : 1st July 2021 at 13:56.
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Old 1st July 2021, 20:01   #169
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Default Re: Next-gen 2020 Force Gurkha spied

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I hope you are commenting on the 2.6ltr not 2.2ltr version.

On a tall boxy car I am not sure if touching 120 is going to be safe

If the new BS6 2.6ltr has the smoothness and NVH to match the 2.2ltr that you say it has

I had almost convinced myself to buy the 2.2ltr last-minute before the expiry of BS4 registration, but I was not prepared to let go of my Gypsy
I am most certainly referring to my 2.6ltr Explorer

I feel in our country anything above 100 is unsafe, especially if one travels long distances. My personal experience is that in any case even if one travels at a speed of 130+ the amount of braking and acceleration evens out any speed advantage there may have been.
Case in point - my Tata Aria 4x4 (sad to have let it go) top end with all the bells and whistles, a luxury mile muncher capable of high speed cruising with excellent highway manners and I still managed to do the same time over and over again on the supposedly slow Gurkha and that is how our Aria finally got replaced.

Yes it is refined in its BS4 Avatar and with BS6 I can only expect better, now what more can I say, best is to wait and watch. So far there are only 2 personal and detailed ownership reviews on the Gurkha, one for the 2.2 and the other by me on my 2.6 and both on this very forum.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-...-2-6l-4x4.html (Review: Life with a Force Gurkha 2.6L 4x4)

I had the Scorpio, Aria and Gurkha amongst SUVs in my garage and guess who was the noisiest? Believe you me it was the Tata Aria. The Scorpio still shares the stables with the Gurkha.

It is difficult to part with a Gypsy and I would urge you to hold on to that, it is rare to find one nowadays, anyways the Gurkha will be coming at a higher price point now, and then if your requirement is only some weekend driving - what better way to do it than in an open Gypsy
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Old 3rd July 2021, 21:02   #170
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Default Re: Next-gen 2020 Force Gurkha spied

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Originally Posted by Trojan View Post

It is difficult to part with a Gypsy and I would urge you to hold on to that, it is rare to find one nowadays, anyways the Gurkha will be coming at a higher price point now, and then if your requirement is only some weekend driving - what better way to do it than in an open Gypsy
Ok your review is really tempting me. I totally dig your point about everyone raving about the old Defender but ignoring what is available locally. Is the BS6 going to come in 5D LWB version as well? That would make a good candidate for overlanding modifications with ample room to stow away stuff.

If buying in 2024-25 time frame I am going to be quiet tempted by the 5D LWD Jimny as well so it will be interesting time when I come around to the test-drives and battle the dilemma.

As for the Gypsy - The comfort of a chilled A/C and climate control takes primacy over everything else so I will sadly have to let it go eventually.

Last edited by Ragul : 3rd July 2021 at 21:05.
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Old 4th July 2021, 10:17   #171
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Default Re: Next-gen 2020 Force Gurkha spied

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If buying in 2024-25 time frame I am going to be quiet tempted by the 5D LWD Jimny as well so it will be interesting time when I come around to the test-drives and battle the dilemma.
Within that time frame, you will have couple of more options- Thar 5D LWB, new Scorpio and maybe even the Gurkha LWB. Jimny, i have my thoughts on how much Maruti will cut down on costs. We even don't know what the off-roading capabilities would be, guess its too early to comment on anything as of now.
On the New Gurkha, I somehow still like the older version of the, it felt more purposeful. Will reserve my comments till i do a proper test drive.
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Old 5th July 2021, 05:24   #172
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Default Re: Next-gen 2020 Force Gurkha spied

This is my first post on T-BHP after my membership was approved a few months back. So kindly point out the mistakes. I have been a regular frequenter of this website for at least 12-13 years now and, an avid reader of most things posted here.

Now coming to the topic, the vehicle of interest here, the Gurkha. This vehicle has been around for an exceptionally long time now and off the bat, I cannot name another car in our scene which has been around for so long and yet has not made any progress.

If I may say so, there seems to be some confusion regarding the product placement itself in the minds of the product team. For example, the Thar, which was probably introduced later in the market as a lifestyle vehicle out of the growing demand, in our country for such a vehicle, still sold in decent numbers despite its glaring shortcomings. It was a utilitarian vehicle that wanted to fulfil the rather newfound Indian lifestyle needs. It sold partly because of Mahindra brand recall and partly due to a lack of better options. Its real rival Gypsy was from the mid-1980s with not even power steering and AC. It was sold as a utilitarian vehicle and was kept relevant due to bulk government orders and a few private buyers who were enthusiasts. But it was priced likewise. People knew what they would get for their money. Though everyone kept wishing it was upgraded with at least the most basic creature comforts (or maybe 3rd or the 4th gen Jimny launch), no one complained. People got what they paid for and managed.

Coming to the Thar now. While the gen 1 has been described multiple times to be a project born from the parts basket of M&M, one must remember M&M had a decent sized parts basket due to their nearly 70 years of experience with “jeeps”. They realized the Thar in that form wouldn’t make the cut in 2020-2021 at that price point. To really be a lifestyle vehicle, major changes were required, and major changes indeed were done in the second-gen of the car. The car has frankly transformed into a completely new vehicle. Good powertrains with both petrol and diesel, options of manual and auto GB, more than decent level of kit all have come in this present generation car. Add to it an incredibly good safety rating in the crash tests. The result is for everyone to see. One of the longest waiting lists of any car sold in our country. One can even take a pause and begin to wonder who these people are and where they were all this while and are queuing up now at Mahindra showrooms. A demand was and is clearly there for such a vehicle. With such few numbers of cars per 1000 population in our country, demand is there for pretty much all kinds of vehicles. Mahindra is charging a premium, true. The car still has niggles as pointed out by many senior members, but it is now at least worthy of being called a “lifestyle” vehicle and not a farm cruiser. The product is fresh and very early in its life cycle and the niggles can be sorted out.

Shifting our focus to the Gurkha now, the student which all teachers said had a lot of potential, but never did well. The old Gurkha could not compete with the old Thar. In terms of sales at least. It might have been a better off-roader on paper but that engine let it down on most occasions. It is so rare on the roads, one can’t imagine. Members on this forum have rightly joked about it being a Unicorn, more difficult to spot than a Lambo on our roads, a car that is found only on T-BHP discussions and not on roads, so on and so forth.

Force Motors in my limited common sense just does not have the technical know-how to make a good vehicle in this category. They are the kings in the people-mover segment and probably the ambulance segment (most ambulances I see in my hospital at least, are Travellers). The tachometer on the centre console, seriously? 85 odd bhp/ 240 odd N-m engine powering a very heavy vehicle was never going to be a runaway success. They plonked in the better 2.2L 140 bhp/320N-m a good 3 to 4 years later than the T-BHP members started speculating and discussing it. I used to be a silent reader of the Gurkha forum back then too. That’s how horribly late they were. The result was obvious. Sold even less. That version of the vehicle (Extreme) did not get a long run in the market and BS6 norms came in and was discontinued. It came and went and very few people ever knew. Now the well-informed people, like all the members here obviously knew but then as of now, there are only about 68, XXX members on this forum. That’s a small number when we look at the big picture. Then came the price. IIRC, it was 16.xx lacks on road. That is a lot of money. That is the money a “lifestyle” vehicle should command. But then it can’t just command, it has to provide too. There failed Gurkha again. People generally don’t complain when they get what they pay for (our Gypsy example). People complain when they feel they are not getting their money worth. Nobody, even a hardcore enthusiast, or a well-off guy who has 5 other cars for daily duties, who wants a weekend toy will plonk 16 big ones for what that car offered. (Referring to the 2.2L version, and the 2.6L explorer and expedition weren’t exactly cheap either)

This is the problem. And the problem should have a logical solution. Many people like the Gurkha for its looks and capabilities. Many of those might even go ahead and buy one provided the car is at least a little bit sorted if not a complete package. IMHO, people should stop comparing the Gurkha to the Thar. Thar has passed that class and is in a class of its own now. It’s a proper hit.

Force should also stop promoting (they hardly promote it and that’s a story for a different rant) the Gurkha as a” lifestyle vehicle” and place it as a utilitarian go-anywhere vehicle. They don’t have the resources to upgrade that 2.2L oil burner to BS6 norms and that is still acceptable. They should just give the vehicle a live front axle. A 4X4 system with rear/rear+front/none (optional) diff locks, 3 and 5 door options, a working AC and two airbags and the other bare minimum safety/pollution norms essentials to make it road legal. Much like the Bolero does. The 2.6L engine’s power figures will then start to make sense when looked upon in the right light (a utilitarian go-anywhere vehicle and not a weekend getaway 4X4X4 EOV which every office guy is drooling for). In entire honesty, no one ever complained about the power figures of the Bolero 2.6 m2DiCR 70-75bhp/190-200N-m, or the Tata Sumo with its 3.0 CR4 making 85 odd Bhp/250N-m, because they were targeted at the right audience at the right price.

After all this is done (Which frankly isn’t much at all,), the car should be priced right. They should not even attempt to put a touchscreen and automatic climate control and the works and start charging for it (the display BS6 car at the Auto Expo had a touchscreen infotainment system IIRC, and it looked after-market). The Thar shouldn’t be a part of the frame of reference either price or feature-wise. Give the people a bare-bones vehicle and charge them accordingly, maybe somewhere between 11-12L OTR price band (and not 14-16L OTR). That version will find a few takers. Learn from the Bolero. A Short wheelbase, hardtop rugged car with abuse friendliness and go-anywhere capability, is wanted by a lot of people (me included). Some might be able to justify the need and some won’t. That probably doesn’t matter. With the SUMO gone and the current Bolero probably in its final few years of production, very soon, there won’t be any left. That would be sad. (Hope people remember the thread on SUMO Victa by a senior BHPian and the thread on the white SUMO gold with the travelogue name “Jurassic Prak”, which was noticed and commented upon by Late BD Sir himself, and the multiples thread on the Bolero). The point being, such vehicles have takers who understand their requirements, people who value a rugged reliable vehicle and use it to travel far and wide.

Mods, kindly let me know if I must make any changes or if I have failed to follow any forum rules. One of the forum rules said, I think about the “introduce yourself” section, that it is not mandatory. I like that rule and hence did not bother! No emoticons/smileys used. I have not fact-checked the post and cannot reference the “facts” in the post, but the post was more a “point-of-view” one and the numbers quoted won’t be much off the actual numbers. After following the Gurkha thread for so long, had to jump in, just could not resist.

Postscript: I have read the well-written ownership experience of the 2.6L white Gurkha (the photos with the kids are adorable and would make someone sitting on the fence contemplating buying the Gurkha, just jump and buy one), and the owner’s review of the 2.2L Gurkha multiple times each and honestly I mean no offence to them or any other current or prospective owners. I am a bit of a Gurkha fanboy myself and am eagerly awaiting the launch as a prospective buyer.
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Old 5th July 2021, 09:44   #173
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Default Re: Next-gen 2020 Force Gurkha spied

Just adding a different school of thought here. For those amongst us who are interested in 4*4 trails, mild to mid level offroading, what makes you put your money on a hard core offroader? In its best Avatar the new thar is an atrocious family car, city car or a mall going vehicle. It is good for two people with their luggage, even 4 seating is a pain.
Likewise the gypsy is unusable on road unless for short trips and the lesser said about the Gurkha the better!

If you need a reliable weekend offroader, which can be used as a primary car, wouldn't it be better to buy a used 4*4 Storme or Scorpio and use it wholeheartedly for weekend fun? Even when things break in a 6/7 lakh suv, it is easily repaired rather than a 18 lakh Thar.
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Old 6th July 2021, 10:26   #174
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Default Re: Next-gen 2020 Force Gurkha spied

5 door version of Gurkha is confirmed by Force Motors, which would be launched after the 3 door version.
https://m.indiacarnews.com/article/5...thar/47397/amp
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Old 6th July 2021, 19:23   #175
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5 door version of Gurkha is confirmed by Force Motors, which would be launched after the 3 door version.
I think when the 5-Door gurka is launched the era of internal combustion engines will come to an end. hence, it will be all electric.
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Old 7th July 2021, 09:41   #176
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I think when the 5-Door gurka is launched the era of internal combustion engines will come to an end. hence, it will be all electric.

Looks like the electric revolution is coming in the next six months according to you.
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Old 7th July 2021, 20:03   #177
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Originally Posted by abhyuday87 View Post
Give the people a bare-bones vehicle and charge them accordingly, maybe somewhere between 11-12L OTR price band (and not 14-16L OTR). That version will find a few takers. Learn from the Bolero. A Short wheelbase, hardtop rugged car with abuse friendliness and go-anywhere capability, is wanted by a lot of people (me included).
Dear Abhyuday87,

Thank you for the kind words! This has been the question in my mind since many years and for the Gurkha too. I mean why can't Indian manufacturers offer the level of customizations or at least options to the customers.
Even a remote level of finesse or comfort is immediately supported by a good price hike to price in equality with more established foreign brands minus the reliability.
The sales experience for this segment is even more pathetic, the team lacks understanding in totality and a Bolero, Trax, Gurkha, Xenon customer is treated at par. You say Trax in a showroom, you will probably lose all respect from the Sales team - forget your overlanding dreams.

OT but I will share, a few years ago I was in the market for a Xenon, so I headed to Pandit automotive Pimpri (Pune). Not surprising that they didn't have one for TD, I asked what options were there, the Safari Storme was just launched and was present in the showroom. The sales executive asked me what other vehicles had I looked at - I informed him Scorpio and Bolero (4wd) , the sales guy started talking to me about Sumo Grande and lost all interest in dealing with me.
A little bit of interest and the pricing is at celestial heights.

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In its best Avatar the new thar is an atrocious family car, city car or a mall going vehicle. It is good for two people with their luggage, even 4 seating is a pain.

If you need a reliable weekend offroader, which can be used as a primary car, wouldn't it be better to buy a used 4*4 Storme or Scorpio and use it wholeheartedly for weekend fun? Even when things break in a 6/7 lakh suv, it is easily repaired rather than a 18 lakh Thar.
Very rare, you hardly get a good condition 4wd Scorpio or Storme in the used market. Scorpio I would still try but a used 4wd Tata should be avoided.

Where the Thar misses is exactly where the Gurkha scores - more space and a proper hardtop and definitely more abuse friendly and potent in terms of 4wd prowess - from the factory. Though I wonder why you say so about the Gurkha.
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Old 7th July 2021, 21:27   #178
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Default Re: Next-gen 2020 Force Gurkha spied

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Originally Posted by abhyuday87 View Post

Force should also stop promoting (they hardly promote it and that’s a story for a different rant) the Gurkha as a” lifestyle vehicle” and place it as a utilitarian go-anywhere vehicle. They don’t have the resources to upgrade that 2.2L oil burner to BS6 norms and that is still acceptable. They should just give the vehicle a live front axle. A 4X4 system with rear/rear+front/none (optional) diff locks, 3 and 5 door options, a working AC and two airbags and the other bare minimum safety/pollution norms essentials to make it road legal.
A lot of what you want was available sometime back as Gama 4X4, I guess that was the end of it.

Team BHP Link (The very first Team-BHP Test Drive of Force Motor's Trax Gama)

This thing is too big to fit into places that an old Mahindra Jeep \ Bolero would fit into and in general Jeep trails are not friendly to anything else except Jeeps.
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Old 7th July 2021, 21:45   #179
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Default Re: Next-gen 2020 Force Gurkha spied

We have threads on Force Gurkha and Force Gama. But these MUVs aren't listed in the thread on monthly car sales.

Is there any particular reason for this?
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Old 7th July 2021, 22:49   #180
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We have threads on Force Gurkha and Force Gama. But these MUVs aren't listed in the thread on monthly car sales.

Is there any particular reason for this?
They now have commercial vehicles only for sale as far as I know. Those older models are no longer available.
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