[mukeshgoel]

Originally Posted by libranof1987

The "TATA" monogram is synonymous with buses and trucks of the yore, going back decades.

So is their logo. Right?

[nikhilthegunner]

Originally Posted by pogo0120

Brought some Lionell messi, some foot ball player. Can't even type his name properly and made him brand ambassador. Who cares! Every time I looked at this advertisement, I was wondering who is this guy.. Never even bothered to look at the product.

Nano nonsense. Even Ratan Tata, though I have lot of respect for him, projected nano as Rs 1 Lakh car. Technically, it was a failure. They should have compared well with alto.

Tata Hexa, still carries safari engine, while they could have used Fiat engine powering Hector or harrier or compass. Never caught with innova even though great product except engine!

Nexon, though very good looking car, failed to market properly. Excellent safety but not so good looking on the back side.

Still they keep making safaris and sumo which is burden on them.

Harrier is an excellent product. But did not come two or three years early, if they had, would have captured market with 8000 pieces or 10000 pieces a month. Came late, fine, but has not option of 7 or 8 seats.. There you go, another 1000 units a month market lost.

Now, they are planning i20 competition. i20 is in market for almost 15 years and it took them that much time to figure out, they need a product in that segment.

I have a few questions to ask.

What's wrong with the Hexa engine? That 2.2 litre engine mated to the six speed torque converter is quite brilliant to drive. I mean there's 400 nm of torque on tap. What would the Fiat engine have done? If I'm not wrong, the Fortuner that costs double the amount gives just 20 nm more. The Hexa didn't catch up to the Innova because it had already got a huge reputation at that point. Wouldn't have mattered what Tata did, Innova would've happily chugged along.

On what grounds are you saying the Nexon failed to market properly? Do you know that there are more than 1 lakh Nexons on the road? I myself drive one and it is simply amazing. In Bangalore, Nexons are quite common. Looks though are subjective so let's not debate that.

The safaris are being made mostly for the Army.
I don't think anyone is really buying them for private purposes anymore. Same story for the sumo.

It's difficult to make judgments about bringing a product earlier because a lot has to go into planning the car. It takes a long time to develop, test and get a product ready for the market. So can't say how the Harrier would have done even if it did come earlier. How do you know they would've captured the market with 8000-10000 units a month? On what basis are you making that statement?

I agree that bringing in a brand ambassador doesn't necessarily mean sales will happen but dismissing Messi like that is a lot like saying "Tata Motors brought in some random Tendulkar fellow to market their product, some cricketer apparently, I don't know who."

Also why do you say Nano nonsense? Some members here who own Nanos quite like them. If you check on twitter, Adil Darukhanawala also owns one and loves it.
The only thing wrong with the Nano was the marketing. That ruined it for people.

So is your message a rant or something factual?

[landcruiser123]

I don't thinking changing the logo will have any positive impact. People are willing to buy well made Tata cars. Tiago,Tigor, Nexon, and Hexa prove that. An unfinished product like the Harrier doesn't cut it.

[chittybang]

I voted no. I like the logo. TATA is not a fly by night company and its the most identifiable logo in Indian auto. It's beyond just passenger vehicles. There is a legacy. Now I understand that this very legacy is frowned upon by those who find them messing up in their launches. I too often am left frustrated with their almost ready launches instead of completely prepared launches. But that's not reason enough to change logo. It's reason enough to change their approach.

A logo change is just like Changing into new clothes. It must represent a change of function. TATA has improved leaps and bounds in the last couple of years and all they need is to have one flawless launch that's supported with good after sales across their centres. Now that's something that requires a lot of overhauling of their processes. It's not going away by a logo change. Within the context of mass market cars,the car effects the logo more than the logo effecting a car.

[saket77]

Tata has already changed its logo & has undergone re-branding exercise a few times.

For ones who don't know, Tata & Mercedes Benz were one of the longest ever collaborators in the Indian automotive history. In 1945, when Tata Motors Limited was started, its actual name was Tata Locomotive and Engineering Company Limited, they used to manufacture steam locomotives for the railways. But Tata ceased that business in 1971. Also by 1954, they had started making trucks with technical collabration with Mercedes. Their trucks wore TATA-Mercedes Logo; which was as below:




In 1960, the name was changed to Tata Engineering and Locomotive Company Limited or TELCO. Fast forward to 1969, the Mercedes logo on Tata-Merc trucks were replaced by that of Tata in all their commercial vehicles (the company anyways made only commercial vehicles during that time) as the contract between the two ended. This logo was a straight 'T' housed inside a ring/circle; as in the picture below:





In 1998, Tata motors, which was still TELCO at that time, went for a re-branding exercise just at the time of entering the private passenger vehicle market with the launch of the Indica. They launched a new logo featuring on the Indica which was actually designed by Wolff Olins, a brand consultancy, based in London, New York City and San Francisco. The new logo was noticeably smaller, more crisp and sharp with an oval ring and a fancier 'T' which is used even today; posted below:



In 2003, TELCO was renamed to Tata Motors Ltd. To tie the knot fully, it is imperative to state that in 2008, TML acquired the Jaguar Land Rover business from Ford Motor Company for $2.3 billion; which it still owns.
*All the above information is because of one of my presentations made during my MBA days on TML when it bought the JLR

Now coming to the question , I find the current Tata logo quite okay for smaller passenger vehicles, but TATA may consider a slightly changed version of the same for its butch SUVs like Harrier. For new upcoming EVs, another slight alteration might be in order. So, I am voting 'yes'.

Regards,
Saket

[trinity0114]

This discussion reminds me of the likes people do on Social media. 'New Tata cars are good but they need to change the logo'. What's wrong with the logo nobody knows but it should change, as if by changing the logo their cars will start moving faster. Frankly its a pointless topic, the ones saying yes should first tell what's wrong with the logo(brand perception cant be changed by just changing a logo). If the 'T' logo of Tata Motors isnt good then whats special about the Toyota logo, its a far simpler(boring) T compared to the Tata, or what's good about Hyundai, Honda or Suzuki logos?

[Mortis]

They can change it to "TM" where the T is in the foreground and superimposed on the M with the horizontal line of the T bridging the points of the M. It will look nice only if it's a chunky 3d logo

[pogo0120]

Originally Posted by nikhilthegunner

I have a few questions to ask.

What's wrong with the Hexa engine? That 2.2 litre engine mated to the six speed torque converter is quite brilliant to drive. I mean there's 400 nm of torque on tap. What would the Fiat engine have done? If I'm not wrong, the Fortuner that costs double the amount gives just 20 nm more. The Hexa didn't catch up to the Innova because it had already got a huge reputation at that point. Wouldn't have mattered what Tata did, Innova would've happily chugged along.

My relatives had terrible experience with Safari, interms of Mileage, vehicle breakdown and weight. I will not compare with Fortuner. Sales of Safari is currently less than hundred and stayed below 1000 mark for many months. Why do we see more times innova compared to safari, which is the same price bracket?

On what grounds are you saying the Nexon failed to market properly? Do you know that there are more than 1 lakh Nexons on the road? I myself drive one and it is simply amazing. In Bangalore, Nexons are quite common. Looks though are subjective so let's not debate that.

Again, Maruti was selling brezza at around 15000 units per month, tata was selling at 5000. Now Venue has taken to 9000 per month, brezza is down. Nexon is now down to 2000 range. If it keeps down this momentum, then it is a failure. It does not matter how good the product is, what matters is continuity of the product line. Yesterday is history.

I can talk and talk to content of my heart. But market says otherwise.
If a product sells in large numbers and has continuity in product line, then definitely that is a success, even if it has few irritating defects, some A B C guy comes to endorse it and what not.

If product is extremely super, but people donot buy them, then it is a flop. Now matter, how many experts keep saying product is good and so on. Therefore, car manufacturers have to be extremely careful in terms of advertising, product placement and brand image sustenance. Unfortunately, it is the buyer who ends up empty handed.

The safaris are being made mostly for the Army.
I don't think anyone is really buying them for private purposes anymore. Same story for the sumo.

It's difficult to make judgments about bringing a product earlier because a lot has to go into planning the car. It takes a long time to develop, test and get a product ready for the market. So can't say how the Harrier would have done even if it did come earlier. How do you know they would've captured the market with 8000-10000 units a month? On what basis are you making that statement?

Well, I believe potential of Harrier is and was very high. May be some people talk about cabin noice and other things. Harrier was THE PRODUCT tata could have come back storming. Forget impact design, forget 2.0 and anything. Harries is a VERY GOOD PRODUCT. No doubt. Its an eye catcher. A 7 seater one would have surely added more sales. Besides, for such products and pricing, ROI on capital, testing, product development etc will be very high if you count 2000 units a month target. Typically, it takes nearly 1 lakh units sales to recover cost of investment on development and production.

https://auto.economictimes.indiatime...karan/61004017

"In passenger cars, our cost structures are out of whack. Every single car and model is losing money. It's important to pick up volumes and try to become profitable," said Natarajan Chandrasekaran, Chairman, Tata Sons, in an interview with The Economic Times today.

I agree that bringing in a brand ambassador doesn't necessarily mean sales will happen but dismissing Messi like that is a lot like saying "Tata Motors brought in some random Tendulkar fellow to market their product, some cricketer apparently, I don't know who."

All Indians know who is Tendulkar. Most Indians don't know Messi. Period.

Regarding known persons, Mahindra made same mistake. Mahindra two wheelers brought Amir khan with famous line, "Maa intezaar kar rahi hai". Mahindra thought Amir Khan endorses it, people will buy. Not true


https://www.domain-b.com/companies/c...5_stallio.html

Also why do you say Nano nonsense? Some members here who own Nanos quite like them. If you check on twitter, Adil Darukhanawala also owns one and loves it.
The only thing wrong with the Nano was the marketing. That ruined it for people.

I myself have seen atleast 10 or more tata nano cars break down in Bangalore, from front axle breakdown, engine break down, fact that it is more susceptible to rear ending. Can you compare Nano price and M800 or Alto in price. You will see the not so sense or Non Sense in making a product in such a price point. Otherwise, cheap sells. People would have bought it. Kwid was quite cheap to buy, people bought it during early days, even running now.

One person owing a car and liking it does not make much difference. It is individual taste. How many tata show rooms do we see now a days? How many tata cars do we see on road now a days compared to MSIL and Hyundai? One must live in reality. Last month total tata car sales is around 8000 units, all models put together. How can they survive?. Tata motors india has been loss making from many many years. They had cushion from JLR profits for some time.

People tend to stick with success. Even in bangalore, I find it difficult to get spare parts outside show room, even for toyota and sometimes, hard to believe even maruti products. True experience!

So is your message a rant or something factual?

Its a Fact: Can you convince say one out 10 knowledgeable friends who all have been to MSIL or Hyundai show room and convince them to buy tata nexon or tiago or hexa. Any tata product for that matter? My friend purchased tata aria for an institution and now they are crying.

This is the reality. When sales of a product is in the range of 5000 units per month and the product line is continuing, everyone feels safe about resale value and service and spare parts. Moment sales falls to few hundreds, then one starts worrying. You have to become brave souls to buy them! Go and ask people who bought KUV100. Sales are down to 169. Will there be product continuation? Will the earlier customers continue to get spares, windows, glass, mirrors etc in case of an accident? Brave Souls!!!

[Hayek]

Tata Motors certainly does not need a logo change. The Tata logo is recognised throughout India, and was specifically designed to work as a logo for an auto brand. What the company needs is to make cars that customers like, and that work well, at a price which makes money for the company. That is not easy, and may become increasingly difficult given the investments that need to be made in electrification. But a logo change will do nothing to change the company’s problems, and will certainly not be a good ROI investment.

[PGA]

This has been on my mind for some years now, I feel they make competent cars but unable to sell them due to legacy affect, basically association of trucks and buses with the brand, so a certain category of customers just don't approach TATA for the cars. I will also narrate in incident to highlight my viewpoint, this is about the time they launched Zest, a roadside mechanic gave an off the cuff remark when I asked him about the review of Zest. He said in chaste Punjabi that the car is good but they spoiled it all but putting that T in the front, it will not sell. I believe that these guys understand the nerve of general populace better, as they deal with large and varied number of them.

So in Tata's case that T itself is brand, if Tata wants to go for brand makeover IMHO it begins with T. Just see the makeover Maruti has done with Nexa and moved a step upwards in the pecking order, similar effort on Tata's part will make a difference in few years as past association will wear off.

[BikerSuz]

A Tata logo with Impact 2.0 design language - Hell yeah!

[SpideyBoy]

I voted Yes. Like someone pointed it would be nicer to have a different logo for their butch SUVs. Not that it would change the perception on the consumer's mindset, but a new logo should gel well with the new extraordinary designs from Tata.

Here are a few renderings of impact 2.0 on the legendary cars from Tata. Imagine these with a right Butch logo.

Tata Winger



Tata Estate



Tata Sierra



Tata Sumo



Tata Safari



Image source

[TROOPER]

Voted No

Their current logo is highly recognizable and well respected.

Does it help them sell 15 lakh + cars? No.

It was discussed elsewhere on our forum earlier that TM need a premium brand for their 15 L+ offerings. Just like what Maruti did with Nexa.

A new logo, separate showrooms and better A.S.S. experiences. This could help them make a 3rd brand in the 15-40 lakh segments.

Then you have JLR to take whats above and TM for whats below.

[Mortis]

How about something like this. Please forgive my rudimentary sketching. Proportions can be changed, this was something I liked. The T will be in the foreground on top of the M. The vertical section of the T can be elongated downwards to kind of make a claw/fork with the vertical lines of the M

[vivek.ks]

I have voted for a NO to change the logo. It is a beautiful, fluidic logo and compares with other round logos like Toyota.


I however like the TAMO logo in previous post a lot.