[deehunk]

Originally Posted by Nithesh_M

I'm sure the manufacturers didn't collectively propose to enforce mandatory 5 year insurance on purchase of new cars thereby killing the middle class ambition of buying a car that now costs a lakh more and no longer fits their emi.

I am pretty sure it wasn't the manufacturers who chose to create more panic by proposing to pass bills that hiked ICE registration and rto charges by upto a whopping 2500%.

Look at Ford, invested so many billion dollars on plants here they now have to sell to Mahindra at a loss all while selling the Freestyle, Aspire and Figo at not so "greedy" prices leaving them wondering "Buyers where art Thou?"

I agree with your views, but not having a strong united lobby too is a reason for day light robbery of new car buyers. The first and foremost thing, stop calling your cars as a rival to Alto, Wagon R or Brezza. The focus should be on making an economic car with saftey features, be flexible on warranty claims and let the customer do his customisation to his taste. If you want to sell cars here, don't force your stuffs like ICE, tyres and alloys. Honda has 4 variants, Ford has six maybe, Tata has 4, but a customer needs only 1 car. If the focus is on safety, why do you need so many variants? I always wonder, what the leaders from reputed colleges think in terms of restructuring or strategy? Is it not true that you are correcting your mistakes(rework)?

[Durango Dude]

Slow down taking it's toll on Honda! I think all the automakers gotten greedy and have started over charging for their products and then a few months down the line they realize the mistake and make amends with dollops of discounts once they are saddled with inventory. That said my present ride is my first Honda car and am loving it and have no regrets to the 'premium' I paid for it almost 2.75 years down the line. It would be sad to see Honda exit the Indian market after such a successful innings with a single product: Honda City in it's many avatars. I only hope Honda able to come out of the downturn stronger and bring great and latest products from it's international portfolio, like the Jazz and not give up on the Indian market.

[SchumiFan]

Honda is slacking. They don't have commitment towards this country. Don't want to do the tough grind.

You have a diesel+CVT combo for almost a year and a half now. Yet it has not been introduced to any other models like Jazz, WRV. Volkswagen and Suzuki got their turbo 1 litre and it was followed by Hyundai. Where's this innovation from Honda?

And not to mention the jacking up of the prices of City during the facelift. They don't have the CVT from the base variant yet when Maruti and Toyota made it standard.

HR-V non starter in a segment where rivals are minting money. Not bringing the next gen Jazz. These are not going to give confidence to the buyers.

It's not like they don't know what to do, they just don't want to.

[Vians]

In 2015, when I asked the dealer if there are any discounts for City, the dealer said "Sir, we are Honda. We never give discounts. Honda policy!"

The price gap between City (D) and equivalent Ciaz ZDI was very huge and Maruti gave 25k discount even though it was the first batch of hybrid.

I still wonder if I would have purchased a Ciaz if they had very close pricing.

[VVN]

Won't say that I am a Honda 'fan' but I do have 2 Honda cars in my stable - Brio and the City. The City, although a lovely car, was a huge let down when it came to the build and quality. Honda still has potential and can bounce back if they want to. Their engines are still among the very best and all they need to do is get good quality products and increase/improve the portfolio. They could have done wonders with the Jazz but chose to be greedy. Same with WRV. Next gen City will be make or break for them imo. I would hate to see them exit and I hope they turn it around.

[adimicra]

I strongly feel that Honda headquarters are not committed to India and that is the only reason for their poor performance. I can't believe that Honda can't understand what the Indian buyers want after being in this country for so long. It's very clear that Honda HQ does not consider the Indian market as a priority which is the only reason for the lack of innovation, aggressiveness and product portfolio. Don't know the reason for the lack of apathy towards India but may be they are not able to work out the return on investment or there are other markets where the return is higher. At least, I like the fact that VW and SKoda have shown a commitment towards the market otherwise it will just become a Hyundai vs Maruti/Suzuki/Toyota show.

[dragracer567]

Honestly I think it's just bad luck. The problem with us Indians is that we just refuse to look beyond Maruti and Hyundai which means it just doesn't make sense for other brands to make products just for India while their products sold overseas tend to be too expensive for India.

I mean if one or two manufacturers have a problem, it's their fault. But if the entire industry have a problem? Everyone from Toyota, Honda, Ford, FCA, VW group, Renault-Nissan are struggling and they don't want to invest anymore in a market that will never accept a car without a Maruti or Hyundai badge in the long term though they have had one or two successful models each. They tolerated our markets for this long because they thought it would help them in the long run but as one eminent economist said "In the long run we are all dead!"

Sadly indeed, it paves the way for Chinese brands which thanks to their deep pockets courtesy the Communist Part of China can sustain loses for a longer period and given their head start in EV tech, they'll probably entrench themselves in the Indian market like they did with their smartphones.

I just hope that Tata and Mahindra step up. They are the only hope we've got (and we are the only hope they've got)!

[m8002?]

Originally Posted by dragracer567

Honestly I think it's just bad luck. The problem with us Indians is that we just refuse to look beyond Maruti and Hyundai which means it just doesn't make sense for other brands to make products just for India while their products sold overseas tend to be too expensive for India.

I mean if one or two manufacturers have a problem, it's their fault. But if the entire industry have a problem? Everyone from Toyota, Honda, Ford, FCA, VW group, Renault-Nissan are struggling and they don't want to invest anymore in a market that will never accept a car without a Maruti or Hyundai badge in the long term though they have had one or two successful models each. They tolerated our markets for this long because they thought it would help them in the long run but as one eminent economist said "In the long run we are all dead!"

Sadly indeed, it paves the way for Chinese brands which thanks to their deep pockets courtesy the Communist Part of China can sustain loses for a longer period and given their head start in EV tech, they'll probably entrench themselves in the Indian market like they did with their smartphones.

I just hope that Tata and Mahindra step up. They are the only hope we've got (and we are the only hope they've got)!

This might be true in the Alto/WagonR/Santro space but not for higher segments.
City was the leader in the sedan segment for decades. There was a time when Sedan = Honda City. What made them loose the market share now to Ciaz and Verna?
Duster created a new segment for compact SUVs and was the leader. And look at them now. Still the same car after 12 years and you expect people to support them by paying a premium?

[sandhyab]

Originally Posted by dragracer567

Honestly I think it's just bad luck. The problem with us Indians is that we just refuse to look beyond Maruti and Hyundai which means it just doesn't make sense for other brands to make products just for India while their products sold overseas tend to be too expensive for India.

Honda Cars have been segment leaders for decades, there is no special affinity or loyalty which makes people buy Hyundai against Honda, just that in comparison to other cars in the segment, Honda started asking premium of a couple of lakhs. That is where they doomed themselves. Also their management has been shoddy. When people were interested in Diesels there were none in the Honda stable, when they were looking for CSUVs there were none again. They were always late to the game and when they joined they were costlier than their competition.

[Aditya_Bhp]

Originally Posted by m8002?

City was the leader in the sedan segment for decades. There was a time when Sedan = Honda City. What made them loose the market share now to Ciaz and Verna?

People bought Honda in India for the quality and reliability. The new City when launched was a brilliant car, especially the space, the legroom at the back was so good. But it lacked one thing compared to the 3rd Gen, Quality. Many parts inside looked good, but they felt cheap. With the arrival of VW Vento and Skoda Rapid, other manufacturers like Hyundai improved the quality, but Honda went down.

Further, they launched the Brio family, I would say it killed Honda India. No longer was it an aspirational brand, it became just another brand, and eventually Hyundai overtook Honda in terms of quality in nearly all the segments. The Jazz had the potential to be the game changer, but they eventually stripped it off all the features, and overpriced it too.

Overall its the marketing and poor pricing strategy that killed Honda, but all is not lost. Once BS6 sets in, Maruti and VW will exit the Diesel small car market, leaving Honda and Hyundai, the only two major choices for Diesel cars in the mass market segment, also they have an excellent range of Hybrids and Electric cars, all they should ensure is that the pricing is right for them to sell well.

[Aaron:)]

Originally Posted by m8002?

This might be true in the Alto/WagonR/Santro space but not for higher segments.

I beg to differ. We Indians do trust Maruti blindly and accept anything that they throw our way. Don’t get me wrong, their lineup has many good cars such as the Ciaz, S-Cross, Baleno, WagonR etc. But why does the relatively mediocre Brezza outsell the XUV300, Ecosport, Nexon and Venue? Why does the Celerio outsell the Santro? Why does the Swift outsell the i10? One word - Maruti.

That said, Honda is to blame as well. They made some really poor decisions and are struggling to overcome them. Granted, it’s not easy to be the tech leader that they were in 2006 given the difficult market condition, but they really need to step up their game.

All’s not lost though. The City, despite being the oldest and most expensive, is still putting up a good show. The Amaze is strong No. 2 in its segment. The Civic is outselling the Octavia despite being down on power.

Moreover, I think we’re reading too much into the news. If anything, it’s a good thing that they are restructuring their manufacturing process to save costs.

What they need to do is -
To launch the new Jazz/WR-V Hybrid at 12L
To step up their quality game with the new City and bring in a Hybrid as well
Bring the next gen HR-V to fight the Creta and Seltos
Give the Civic and CR-V the power they deserve
Bring in the Accord with the hybrid and the mad 2.0 VTEC Turbo against the Camry

Also they have hybrid and EV technology in their arsenal. The next few years should be driven by this tech.

[Latheesh]

I wanted to give Honda my money since few years.

- When they launched current Jazz in 2015, I wanted Jazz CVT + Magic seat option, but it was not available.
- Eagerly waited for face lift in 2018, they offered top end CVT, but removed magic seat from the entire range.

I like 2020 Jazz (except front grill) and Cross version. Looks like they are not planning to launch it here. Take my money if you launch CVT + Hybrid + Magic seat option @ 12-12.5 L OTR.

[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by m8002?

This might be true in the Alto/WagonR/Santro space but not for higher segments.
City was the leader in the sedan segment for decades. There was a time when Sedan = Honda City. What made them loose the market share now to Ciaz and Verna?
Duster created a new segment for compact SUVs and was the leader. And look at them now. Still the same car after 12 years and you expect people to support them by paying a premium?

Exactly my point. Except for one or two models (for eg, for Honda, the city and Amaze were the only models racking decent numbers), most non-Maruti/Hyundai brands didn't have an entire line-up of successful models.

It's a vicious cycle, they don't have the sales to justify further investment and because they don't invest, sales dip even further.

Unfortunately, that's how the free market works!

[GeeTee TSI]

Originally Posted by Latheesh

- When they launched current Jazz in 2015, I wanted Jazz CVT + Magic seat option, but it was not available.
- Eagerly waited for face lift in 2018, they offered top end CVT, but removed magic seat from the entire range.

Agree. Honda missed some definitive customers from my family when I dissuaded them from the Jazz, for the sole reason of not having rear seat headrests (actually removing magic seats denied them my money for certain, just that I was trying to be more benevolent with others' choice)

That said, I feel that maybe the average car buying public who make up the 'numbers' just don't care for engineering integrity, stumping just about every international OEM of repute as to how to crack some sales in this market.

Is it the fickle nature of the buyer, who takes a cursory look than go into the details? Is it about buyers who miss out on good cars going by hearsay, bias and worse; falling for the salesman's bluff before making a decision running into 6 figures or more?

I am worried actually that the market might tend towards a monopoly (duopoly, at a pinch) as it was till the advent of ironically, Maruti! Remember, the motor car is something (unlike a gadget) you can't own unless sold in this country

[gauravanekar]

Originally Posted by Latheesh

- Eagerly waited for face lift in 2018, they offered top end CVT, but removed magic seat from the entire range.

I simply donot understand why it becomes difficult for them to sell cars with magic seats, it's not as if the chassis doesn't support it. I don't think it would cost too much to manufacture magic seat as well.

It's simply the result of people sitting in high upper position in these company who are not at all grounded in reality. May be these people are just not interested in cars.