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Old 30th November 2019, 21:18   #136
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Default re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Completely agree with gutsy here. But what pains me to see is that when they can make a reliable and supremely comfortable SUV like the Hexa which is based on a decade old platform, why can't they make the Harrier ride as comfortably or feel as luxurious as the Hexa?

The answer I think lies in the fact that Tata only wanted to harp about the Land Rover DNA when they planned on launching the Harrier. They cut corners with suspension,brakes etc and thought that they would add features like the sunroof,automatic and other gizmos at a later stage. They must have thought that their product will be a smash hit purely because of its looks and the Land Rover DNA.

Then suddenly we got the Hector and were bowled over by its features at an almost similar price as that of the Harrier. Now customers suddenly started thinking that the Harrier should also come with these features. Plus initial niggles reported by Harrier owners and media also kept customers away from the showrooms.

Customers in India do not give much importance to the way a car is engineered or drives but more to its feature set and how it makes them feel their money well spent. This is especially true for cars and SUVs below 30 or 40 lakh rupees.

So for Tata to resurrect the Harrier, it needs to bring features which the current and future competition offers. People are not going to buy their cars for features which they do not feel or see like brake prefill or disc wiping. So now the ball is completely in Tata's court and it would be interesting to see how quickly if at all Tata manages to catch up with the competition.
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Old 30th November 2019, 21:55   #137
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Default re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

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Originally Posted by ram87pune View Post
...

So for Tata to resurrect the Harrier, it needs to bring features which the current and future competition offers. People are not going to buy their cars for features which they do not feel or see like brake prefill or disc wiping. So now the ball is completely in Tata's court and it would be interesting to see how quickly if at all Tata manages to catch up with the competition.
I concur with you on every point, majority of the buyers are preferring features over ride-quality & build-quality. IMO, though preferences may vary from person to person, in general, good ride-quality with balanced ride is a luxury over any other feature. But Hexa though a competent & reliable(I believe) product failing to take on Innova. Likewise in case of Harrier, Tata gave a costly platform(implementation aside) instead of bling which again worked against it.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 30th November 2019 at 22:34. Reason: Please quote only relevant bits of post you're responding to. Quoting full-length posts hinders mobile user experience.
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Old 30th November 2019, 22:40   #138
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Default re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ram87pune View Post
....

People are not going to buy their cars for features which they do not feel or see like brake prefill or disc wiping. So now the ball is completely in Tata's court and it would be interesting to see how quickly if at all Tata manages to catch up with the competition.


The problem lies in the fact that, the way we expect under 10 Lac INR cars to have less features and cheap parts, the general populace expects something from premium offerings.

I personally don't care about sunroof. I have voted against it in a recent poll, anyone can check. But every car other than the Hexa and Harrier in this segment now have a sunroof. Its like offering a sub 8 Lac car in today's day without a 7 inch screen. Maybe a gimmick, but the market expects it.

Some non bling premium features they lack: Electric seats, Auto dimming IRVM, TPMS, front park assist, rear passenger adjustable seats, height adjustable seat belts, usable armrest, dead pedal. Some of these are present in the xuv and creta.

Don't forget an attractive extended warranty.

Now what do people think will happen once the new creta, hector 7 seat and xuv come in? There are rumors about 7 seat versions of creta and seltos too.

Tata cannot dictate what the market wants, its the other way around. Pedigree, platform only won't work.

Ironically the market currently goes with a 'Jack of all trades, master of none' kind of product these days.

And guys, as far as safety is concerned, lets give the other brands some leeway. Its not like the rest of the cars in this segment frequently crash, roll over or crumble all around.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 30th November 2019 at 22:59. Reason: Corrected typo as requested.
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Old 30th November 2019, 23:00   #139
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Default re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

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Originally Posted by gutsy View Post
The discussion would have been of some substance and much meaningful if they are factual and subjective.

First, its steel not iron. Lets ignore the ignorance and move to next one. Only larger land rover have aluminum, OMEGA ARC uses a steel monocoque just like Land Rover’s D8. D8 is JLR’s steel-based platform and underpins cars like the Evoque, Discovery Sport and the Jaguar E-Pace. Another interesting fact is that the steel used in the construction of both Discovery Sport and Harrier is provided by Tata Steel.

BTW, omegarc is capable of 4x4. The platform is not only ready for an all-wheel-drivetrain, but can also be configured with a battery pack in the floor bed for an electrified powertrain.

Moreover, same taxi engine is found in bling loaded MG Hector and Jeep Compass, however, NVH levels in Harrier are way better than that of Compass and Hector. And these two noisy taxi engine powered cars; Hector and compass don't have AT also. What a pointless logic is that


Finally, its all bling in terms of mood lighting etc.. seriously
Lol. Steel, stainless steel or even titanium, doesn't matter ; it's still a poor copy. About the engine please take a test drive, every review including ours claims the Harrier is the noisiest and the most unrefined iteration of that engine.
All landrovers right from the discovery sport have aluminum subframes, bonnet and door panels.
Regarding in your words "bling" features, as long as the competition provides bling like automatic, a sunroof and mood lighting at the same price as the Harrier, I am not sure what benefit does the Harrier bring to the table?
The poor price to feature ratio is reflected well in the monthly sales figures of Harrier versus say a Hector/Seltos even.

Last edited by AirbusCapt : 30th November 2019 at 23:02.
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Old 30th November 2019, 23:08   #140
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Default re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

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Originally Posted by AirbusCapt View Post
The poor price to feature ratio is reflected well in the monthly sales figures of Harrier versus say a Hector/Seltos even.
Before the Harrier launch, i used to tell my dad that the Xuv 500 killer is here.

Let alone Hector and Seltos, the Xuv 500 has consistently sold more than the Harrier for the past 4 months. That is a fact, but we'll be accused of being Tata bashers.
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Old 1st December 2019, 02:22   #141
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Default re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

I just went through the Gravitas teaser on their new websiteGravitas again and I just cant understand for the vehicle we know what makes Tata claim the following:-

- Opulence unparalleled - without a host of features that similarly priced cars from rival brands offer
- Power Unimagined - 170 bhp which the Compass has had for a couple of years now

and the best of them all

- It is the ultimate luxury SUV - I thought premium itself was a tag which was difficult to live with. Luxury is well leaving me speechless

Tata I want you to reclaim your life and your brand and you keep throwing phrases which just dont reflect in the car you build.
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Old 1st December 2019, 05:49   #142
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Default re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

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Originally Posted by AirbusCapt View Post
Lol. Steel, stainless steel or even titanium, doesn't matter ;
If it doesn't matter, why bring that point of iron and make narrative more irrelevant and pointless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AirbusCapt View Post
About the engine please take a test drive, every review including ours claims the Harrier is the noisiest and the most unrefined iteration of that engine.
I have done so, and Compass is the noisiest one followed by Hector. And indeed have spoken to a number of relevant and actual users/people who concur the same.

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Originally Posted by AirbusCapt View Post
Regarding in your words "bling" features, as long as the competition provides bling like automatic, a sunroof and mood lighting at the same price as the Harrier, I am not sure what benefit does the Harrier bring to the table?
The poor price to feature ratio is reflected well in the monthly sales figures of Harrier versus say a Hector/Seltos even.
There is a difference between bling and features, which any auto enthusiast will understand.

As far as pricing goes, lets focus on model by model comparison - Similar spec Compass is way too expensive and Hector which is marginally higher is hardly a SUV, with its pathetic ride quality and body roll. Its MPV at best.

Better, not get Seltos into the picture as its just a crossover and a big hatchback. Its top end variant is way too expensive as compared to its offering > 20 Lacs.

On a similar note, Tucson is a very competent vehicle, both in terms of specs and features, but alas.. they are just selling ~60 a month. Still, its an awesome vehicle.

On the other hand, Alturus is selling just 200 a month, but that doesn't make it an incompetent vehicle.

Remember, its only one MT trim of Harrier in the market and yet it sold ~1250 last month

Quote:
Originally Posted by ram87pune View Post
Completely agree with gutsy here. But what pains me to see is that when they can make a reliable and supremely comfortable SUV like the Hexa which is based on a decade old platform, why can't they make the Harrier ride as comfortably or feel as luxurious as the Hexa?

So for Tata to resurrect the Harrier, it needs to bring features which the current and future competition offers. People are not going to buy their cars for features which they do not feel or see like brake prefill or disc wiping. So now the ball is completely in Tata's court and it would be interesting to see how quickly if at all Tata manages to catch up with the competition.
Very true, if we look at the overall portfolio in terms of trims and variant, Tatas clearly dont have robust offering. Harrier, as stand alone car might be good but overall portfolio, yes, they need to up the game.

Last edited by GTO : 2nd December 2019 at 13:48. Reason: Do NOT make baseless accusations on Team-BHP
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Old 1st December 2019, 07:18   #143
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Default re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

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Originally Posted by ram87pune View Post
Completely agree with gutsy here. But what pains me to see is that when they can make a reliable and supremely comfortable SUV like the Hexa which is based on a decade old platform, why can't they make the Harrier ride as comfortably or feel as luxurious as the Hexa?
Simple, they got spooked by the news of the upcoming launch of the Seltos and Hector and fastracked the Harrier, unlike when they took their time with the Hexa, Nexon and Tiago. Typical myopic behavior. In the quest for first mover advantage, they disregarded the bigger picture where the Harrier is the first offering not based on one of their legacy platforms. Now it is stuck with its initial baggage. They have neither sales nor quality nor a feature set to match the competition.

Anyway, back to the topic, with the Gravitas, they should strongly consider tweaking the front end a little and giving it an identity of it's own.
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Old 1st December 2019, 08:39   #144
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Default re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

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Originally Posted by da_lowrider View Post
Simple, they got spooked by the news of the upcoming launch of the Seltos and Hector and fastracked the Harrier, unlike when they took their time with the Hexa, Nexon and Tiago. Typical myopic behavior. In the quest for first mover advantage, they disregarded the bigger picture where the Harrier is the first offering not based on one of their legacy platforms. Now it is stuck with its initial baggage. They have neither sales nor quality nor a feature set to match the competition.

Anyway, back to the topic, with the Gravitas, they should strongly consider tweaking the front end a little and giving it an identity of it's own.
Wondering if they even need to have a 7 seater SUV. Gravitas could be just an MPV, which Tatas dont have anyway. Harrier looks good, proportionate and good materials in the cabin which is sometimes the first thing that people look at. Single engine option with lack of Automatics seems to be problem. They have the right designs nowadays, hoping they recruit someone who can teach them the science of product launches and lifecycle management.
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Old 1st December 2019, 09:17   #145
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Default re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Now that Gravitas is confirmed to be a front wheel drive van, Tata badly needs an SUV in their portfolio. For the first time since sierra/telconline 4x4 launch (20 years ago) , the supposedly largest indian automobile manufacturer( TML says so in their website) will not have a 4x4 or AWD in its passenger vehicle portfolio starting April 2020 when Hexa goes away for BS6 transition.

On another note , I now respect the people inside TML who pushed back against giving Safari name to Gravitas.

Last edited by padmrajravi : 1st December 2019 at 09:19.
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Old 1st December 2019, 10:06   #146
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Default re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

If Buzzard is Harrier with an additional row of seats, wont it go the Harrier way? Pardon my ignorance as I have not been following the Buzzard with much interest, but there still is no panoramic sun-roof (reason cited is the step roof - and the buyer wont care about that!). So where exactly does this score over Harrier? (I'm genuinely asking)

Last edited by Sebring : 1st December 2019 at 10:23.
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Old 1st December 2019, 10:47   #147
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Default re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

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Pardon my ignorance as I have not been following the Buzzard with much interest, but there still is no panoramic sun-roof
Tata is adding a panoramic sunroof and a diesel Auto with the help of a Hyundai-sourced torque converter.
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Old 1st December 2019, 11:01   #148
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Default re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

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Originally Posted by nainan View Post

Tata I want you to reclaim your life and your brand and you keep throwing phrases which just dont reflect in the car you build.
They're lost in their own world. They're very much out of touch with the market demands. They're followers and not trailblazers in any segment today. By the time they react to the market their rivals have already reached the next stage.

I am still holding my cheque book in hand to book the Harrier but if I'm going to throw down 21 big ones for a TATA the least they could do is fix their gremlins after a year of launch.

For now I've decided to wait it out for the 7 seater until February. If they price it way out of the Harriers range with the same gremlins of the 5 seater, then its as good as DOA for me.

If MG/Kia/Hyundai launch their 7 seaters before Feb undercutting them significantly then Tata can say tata to those of us sitting on the sidelines.
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Old 1st December 2019, 14:26   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by padmrajravi View Post
Now that Gravitas is confirmed to be a front wheel drive van, Tata badly needs an SUV in their portfolio. For the first time since sierra/telconline 4x4 launch (20 years ago) , the supposedly largest indian automobile manufacturer( TML says so in their website) will not have a 4x4 or AWD in its passenger vehicle portfolio starting April 2020 when Hexa goes away for BS6 transition.

On another note , I now respect the people inside TML who pushed back against giving Safari name to Gravitas.
Tata has clarified that Hexa will be available with BS6. There is a post on Tbhp as well.
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Old 1st December 2019, 14:55   #150
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Default re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebring View Post
If Buzzard is Harrier with an additional row of seats, wont it go the Harrier way? Pardon my ignorance as I have not been following the Buzzard with much interest, but there still is no panoramic sun-roof (reason cited is the step roof - and the buyer wont care about that!). So where exactly does this score over Harrier? (I'm genuinely asking)
The Gravitas scores over the Harrier in following points -

1. Captains chairs option for the middle row.

2. Sliding and reclining rear bench seat.

3. Auto dimming IRVM.

4. Configurable mood lighting.

5. Electronic parking brake.

6. Rear disc brakes.

7. 18 inch alloy wheels.

8. Independent rear AC.

9. Option of a 3rd row for occasional use only.

Last edited by ram87pune : 1st December 2019 at 14:57.
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